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Originally Posted by someone123
I'll take your word for it I guess, although I wonder how physically affectionate such relationships could be. Hugging? Kissing? Cuddling? Sex between males is still fairly taboo in a lot of circles. My impression is that most (generally) straight men, if they did something sexual with another male, would not tell their buddies, and that a topic like that doesn't appear on incel forums.
To be clear I get the feeling this incel culture is an offshoot of the crappy machismo culture I am saying is a problem. But these guys did not invent it, and they are not the only ones perpetuating it.
I agree that on the whole they also seem to have a bunch of psychological problems that contribute to their woes. This is kind of obvious. There are a lot of people who never have sex with anyone and do OK, and there are a lot of incels who rant on the internet but don't kill anyone.
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I couldn't agree more with all of your posts on this topic. I firmly believe that just as women face intense societal pressure to be physically attractive, men face intense societal pressure to be dominant, confident, and sexually successful. Not everyone can be confident or charismatic, and it's unfair that that's considered an expectation. I think it was you too that mentioned how sexualized the media has become. Look at your average sitcom: dudes complain because they haven't gotten laid for 2 whole months
Everything around us says that to be a man worthy of respect you need to have lots of friends, frequent sex, and professional success. And beyond this, because of the treatment of sex in the media, it's not that you're less successful if you don't get it as much, you're not even normal. So these guys internalize the identity of "loser," and unfortunately that leads some to lash back out at society in this way. I don't believe this is tied to entitlement or anything like that. It's not even tied to sexual drive, but to the need for the social acceptance that sex provides. That's why I don't think therapeutic sex workers would fix men like this. It's not about the sex, it's about the woman validating them as people by giving them that affection.
So to answer Vid's question about what can be done about this: significantly expanded mental health support. Not all of these guys are autistic. But I'd bet they all suffer significantly from a total lack of self worth, because they believe sex is what determines the success of them as a person. They need support for depression so they can live their lives without relying on others' approval for their happiness.
So finally, to agree with Esquire, when these guys lash out like this, mocking them as "losers who can't get laid" isn't productive. I get why people do it: it's similar to everyone calling terrorists "cowards" after they blow things up. But other guys who feel the same way and will have their deepest issues confirmed: people don't respect them and dismiss them because of their lack of social success. They may not "cope" with it so violently as this guy did, but validating their negative self-perception as correct won't be preventing any future 1/1000000 crazies from lashing out the same way.