Amazon HQ2 bid

[RATBOYKEV]

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[wonshirim]

What happens from now on? Does anyone think the City Council might actually kill this once in a generation opportunity?

[cabasse]

I want to believe... 🤞🏼

[AlwaysMoving]

Originally Posted by wonshirim

What happens from now on? Does anyone think the City Council might actually kill this once in a generation opportunity?

If Amazon is actually coming to the Gulch the City Council definitely won't kill the deal. If all of this is about developing the Gulch and Norfolk Southern relocating to Midtown then they might.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by AlwaysMoving

If Amazon is actually coming to the Gulch the City Council definitely won't kill the deal. If all of this is about developing the Gulch and Norfolk Southern relocating to Midtown then they might.

I see you are finally wakening up from your coma AlwaysDrink'. Welcome to September 2018!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

I am all in

Are you willing to bet your life savings and your reputation?

[wonshirim]

I think what put Atlanta ahead of other candidate cities is the availability of the Gulch site. Anyone who's visited Amazon's Seattle South Lake Union complex will probably see they prefer an urban campus instead of what other tech companies like Google, Facebook, Apple do with a huge, closed-off suburban campus.

I think the $5 billion didn't stretch that far in NoVa, DC (with its height restrictions) and Montgomery County was just not urban enough for them. Even Boston's Suffolk Downs site, which I thought initially to be a strong contender, isn't actually that urban.

There aren't many brownfield and greenfield sites that could house a $5 billion, Amazon-scale real estate project with significant flexibility.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by wonshirim

I think what put Atlanta ahead of other candidate cities is the availability of the Gulch site. Anyone who's visited Amazon's Seattle South Lake Union complex will probably see they prefer an urban campus instead of what other tech companies like Google, Facebook, Apple do with a huge, closed-off suburban campus.

I think the $5 billion didn't stretch that far in NoVa, DC (with its height restrictions) and Montgomery County was just not urban enough for them. Even Boston's Suffolk Downs site, which I thought initially to be a strong contender, isn't actually that urban.

There aren't many brownfield and greenfield sites that could house a $5 billion, Amazon-scale real estate project with significant flexibility.

No doubt Atlanta's the best *overall* candidate, but if we're strictly talking about sites and being honest, I'd say Chicago and Philadelphia have us beat.

[Atlanta3000]

Can Someone Help Me Understand Why......

It was reported in the AJC 1/25/2018 CIM Group went before the Atlanta Zoning Board (or whatever it is called) for a 27 acre project and now the project has increased to 40 acres? For reference, Miami World Center is 25 acres, Hudson Yards in NYC is 28 acres and the Transbay project in San Francisco is 40 acres and includes an 11 acre park.

What is going on here folks? Surely this is not for Norfolk Southern...../sarcasm.

https://www.myajc.com/business/desig...kt5kZJFnheuGL/

Representatives of a California development team planning a redevelopment of 27 acres of downtown Atlanta’s Gulch pitched design concepts Thursday they say would create a vibrant and mix of offices, shopping, restaurants and residents over what is today an empty morass of parking.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Are you willing to bet your life savings and your reputation?

Artemis - I come from a Dynasty of White Trailer Trash...of course I will put my reputation on the line.

[wonshirim]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Can Someone Help Me Understand Why......

It was reported in the AJC 1/25/2018 CIM Group went before the Atlanta Zoning Board (or whatever it is called) for a 27 acre project and now the project has increased to 40 acres? For reference, Miami World Center is 25 acres, Hudson Yards in NYC is 28 acres and the Transbay project in San Francisco is 40 acres and includes an 11 acre park.

What is going on here folks? Surely this is not for Norfolk Southern...../sarcasm.

https://www.myajc.com/business/desig...kt5kZJFnheuGL/

I guess that's where Norfolk Southern comes in. As the project went from 27 to 40 acres, CIM Group's scope went from megaproject -> Amazon -> Amazon + Norfolk Southern. And since the mayor cannot mention the word "Amazon", Norfolk Southern is the smokescreen to get this deal through.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

No doubt Atlanta's the best *overall* candidate, but if we're strictly talking about sites and being honest, I'd say Chicago and Philadelphia have us beat.

I love a river view S-17. However, I think Amazon's preference is to be integrated into the core CBD. So Philly's site while beautiful does not meet this requirement.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

I love a river view S-17. However, I think Amazon's preference is to be integrated into the core CBD. So Philly's site while beautiful does not meet this requirement.

ATL3K, below is the exact verbiage from Amazon's RFP, page 1:

"HQ2 could be, but doesn't have to be: An urban *OR* downtown campus"

Can you please provide a link where Amazon said their preference or requirement is for HQ2 to be in the core CBD?

[scania]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

No doubt Atlanta's the best *overall* candidate, but if we're strictly talking about sites and being honest, I'd say Chicago and Philadelphia have us beat.

I think you have a solid point. I know we here only focus on articles that seemingly supports Atlanta...but there are a plethora of other articles that do the opposite and support other cities. I was just reading an article last week that talked about a few companies (including Amazon) that had great interest in NYC, Chicago, and LA. Those three cities had the 3 most sought after zip codes that millennials wanted to live. It was done from multiple studies. Chicago out of the three was the most affordable, though it still came in third. IMO, I’m not sure if that or even a lot of things that we discuss really matters. At the end of the day, their HQ is in a dreary city that’s almost and to a lot of people feel is isolated from the rest of the U.S.

[wonshirim]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

ATL3K, below is the exact verbiage from Amazon's RFP, page 1:

"HQ2 could be, but doesn't have to be: An urban *OR* downtown campus"

Can you please provide a link where Amazon said their preference or requirement is for HQ2 to be in the core CBD?

Visit Amazon's Seattle South Lake Union campus. Amazon is all about urban core work/live.

https://www.aboutamazon.com/working-...s-urban-campus

"Several years ago we outgrew our space in Seattle and we made a conscious choice to invest in downtown Seattle—even though it would have been cheaper to move to the suburbs. We now employ more than 40,000 people in Seattle who come from all around the world. Our employees tell us that they love being in the heart of the city. In fact, about 15% live in the same zip code as their office and about 20% walk to work. This is one of the many advantages of having an urban campus."

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by wonshirim

Visit Amazon's Seattle South Lake Union campus. Amazon is all about urban core work/live.

https://www.aboutamazon.com/working-...s-urban-campus

"Several years ago we outgrew our space in Seattle and we made a conscious choice to invest in downtown Seattle—even though it would have been cheaper to move to the suburbs. We now employ more than 40,000 people in Seattle who come from all around the world. Our employees tell us that they love being in the heart of the city. In fact, about 15% live in the same zip code as their office and about 20% walk to work. This is one of the many advantages of having an urban campus."

There's a difference between an urban core and a core CBD. A core CBD is a part of an urban core, but an urban core isn't necessarily exclusive to the core CBD.

BTW, your South Lake Union example supports my point. It's technically not Seattle's core CBD.

[wonshirim]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

There's a difference between an urban core and a core CBD. A core CBD is a part of an urban core, but an urban core isn't necessarily exclusive to the core CBD.

BTW, your South Lake Union example supports my point. It's technically not Seattle's core CBD.

What do you mean SLU isn't a core CBD? Amazon's SLU campus is a 15~20 minute walk, 5~10 minute drive from Seattle's downtown CBD where companies like Nordstrom are headquartered, Washington State convention is located, the Westin hotel is, and where the Pike Place market is.

Just because it's not on the EXACT STREET doesn't make it a non-core CBD. It's quite rare that a CBD has a Gulch-like site for multiple buildings to house 40,000 employees. Amazon grew quite organically in Seattle, but in their second headquarters, they are seeking a similar urban site they can occupy and build completely. The Gulch fits into that description perfectly.

Also, SLU is considered a new CBD/residential mixed use neighborhood. Atlanta's SLU-equivalent would be Midtown. Buckhead would be Bellevue, where Amazon originally started. I don't think you can consider Midtown "non-core CBD" and put it on par with--say Montgomery County, Maryland or Loudoun County, Virginia. And let's not forget the inability to build tall buildings in DC proper.

And Amazon occupies more office space in Seattle proper than the city's #2 company ~ #40 company COMBINED. And they're headquartered in SLU. How is SLU not a core business district? It's located literally RIGHT NEXT TO downtown Seattle, and the SLU area has 40,000 employees with ~$100k average compensation.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...-company-town/

Montgomery County, Maryland and Loudoun County, Virginia would be even more suburban than Redmond, Washington, where Microsoft is headquartered. And Amazon made a very conscious decision to move from Bellevue, which is our Buckhead equivalent, to SLU, which is our Midtown equivalent. If Amazon were okay with such suburban campuses, they would be okay with Sandy Springs or even Alpharetta.

[wonshirim]

This is where Amazon's Seattle campus is, by the way.

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by wonshirim

What do you mean SLU isn't a core CBD? Amazon's SLU campus is a 15~20 minute walk, 5~10 minute drive tops from Seattle's downtown CBD where companies like Nordstrom are headquartered, Washington State convention is located, the Westin hotel is, and where the Pike Place market is.

Just because it's not on the EXACT STREET doesn't make it a non-core CBD. It's quite rare that a CBD has a Gulch-like site for multiple buildings to house 40,000 employees. Amazon grew quite organically in Seattle, but in their second headquarters, they are seeking a similar urban site they can occupy and build completely. The Gulch fits into that description perfectly.

Also, SLU is considered a new CBD/residential mixed use neighborhood. Atlanta's SLU-equivalent would be Midtown. Buckhead would be Bellevue, where Amazon originally started. I don't think you can consider Midtown "non-core CBD" and put it on par with--say Montgomery County, Maryland or Loudoun County, Virginia. And let's not forget the inability to build tall buildings in DC proper.

And Amazon occupies more office space in Seattle proper than the city's #2 company ~ #40 company COMBINED. And they're headquartered in SLU. How is SLU not a core business district? It's located literally RIGHT NEXT TO downtown Seattle, and the SLU area has 40,000 employees with ~$100k average compensation.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...-company-town/

CBD specifically refers to downtown, which South Lake Union isn't. Your comparison to Midtown again makes my point. No one calls it downtown because it's not the CBD, despite it being adjacent to downtown.

But that's all besides the original point, that point being "urban" isn't exclusive to the CBD. Amazon's RFP says the campus could be urban or downtown (CBD). So to discount perfectly urban sites such as the one in Philadelphia because it's not downtown is unreasonable IMO.

[wonshirim]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

CBD specifically refers to downtown, which South Lake Union isn't. Your comparison to Midtown again makes my point. No one calls it downtown because it's not the CBD, despite it being adjacent to downtown.

But that's all besides the point, that point being "urban" isn't exclusive to the CBD. Amazon's RFP says the campus could be urban or downtown (CBD). So to discount perfectly urban sites such as the one in Philadelphia because it's not downtown is unreasonable IMO.

Your definition of CBD is extremely narrow. So Midtown is "urban" but not a central business district?

I would consider the following locations non-CBD, but SLU not being a central business district when it's home to the city's #1 employer housing 40,000 employees making far above average money, while using more office space in that area than the #2 employer ~ #40 employer combined is hard to understand.

1. Loudoun County, Virginia


2. Montgomery County, Maryland


As for Philadelphia and Chicago, it's pretty clear by now they're out. So I don't see why it's worth mentioning them at this point.