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  #41  
Old Posted May 19, 2019, 1:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Those orange lights are probably responsible for the death of at least one polar bear.

Come on Man, do it for Greenland!
Greenland is not really green. We've been lied to all these years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabasse
i don't mind them, but i wish they were a warmer shade of white. blue light is fucking with our circadian rhythms, and these LEDs tend to be daylight white which leans towards the blue spectrum
which is why most cellphones have a yellowish tint setting after a certain hour as to not screw with sleep patterns as we surf facebook at 2 AM.
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  #42  
Old Posted May 19, 2019, 2:22 PM
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Greenland is not really green. We've been lied to all these years.
Next thing you're going to tell me is that Iceland doesn't really have much ice!!!
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  #43  
Old Posted May 19, 2019, 2:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cabasse View Post
i don't mind them, but i wish they were a warmer shade of white. blue light is fucking with our circadian rhythms, and these LEDs tend to be daylight white which leans towards the blue spectrum.
I've been reading stuff lately on how night lighting messes with our circadian rhythms and all kinds of other things, and it's made me wonder if they should do away with all street lighting (except, maybe some major roads and freeways) after, say, 10 or 11 at night. People will sleep better. All that night lighting messes with nature a lot, too. They've attributed declines in firefly populations to night lighting, for example.
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  #44  
Old Posted May 19, 2019, 5:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cabasse View Post
i don't mind them, but i wish they were a warmer shade of white. blue light is fucking with our circadian rhythms, and these LEDs tend to be daylight white which leans towards the blue spectrum.
Probably a good thing if you're driving.
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  #45  
Old Posted May 19, 2019, 7:18 PM
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I agree that the orange lighting feels cooler and grittier when you're walking down the street at night, and I'll miss that when my area finally switches over. But in my opinion that's not nearly as important as improving visibility and safety for others. If it helps reduce car crashes, crime, and even perceived safety, then it's totally worth it.
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  #46  
Old Posted May 19, 2019, 8:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan View Post
They might make streets safer, but they also make light pollution much worse.
True, and that's the reason my hometown is moving the opposite way Chicago is (for about a decade, we've been upgrading existing white lighting to new orange LEDs).

This explains it:
http://ricemm.org/en/the-reserve/

But in areas where light pollution doesn't matter that much, most people obviously think white is superior to orange, otherwise places like Chicago would be replacing sodium lamps with orange LEDs.




Also, I find it amusing to call the reserve "international", as if special effort towards darkness was needed from the States of Maine and New Hampshire (the parts that are next to it are virtually empty.)
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  #47  
Old Posted May 19, 2019, 8:27 PM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
I've been reading stuff lately on how night lighting messes with our circadian rhythms and all kinds of other things, and it's made me wonder if they should do away with all street lighting (except, maybe some major roads and freeways) after, say, 10 or 11 at night. People will sleep better. All that night lighting messes with nature a lot, too. They've attributed declines in firefly populations to night lighting, for example.
Wouldn't that be catastrophic for crime prevention, though?

I think the best of both worlds is the way I do it - with thick opaque drapes. If I don't set my alarm I can sleep through a bright sunny day and I have no idea (from my bed) whether it's the middle of the night or the middle of the day.
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  #48  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 3:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan View Post
They might make streets safer, but they also make light pollution much worse.

From National Geographic:
In Chicago the adoption of LEDs will almost certainly reduce light pollution. The new luminaires are full cutoff, so they cast no direct light upwards unlike the old sodium vapor lights which had bulbous plastic diffusers and cast tons of light up into the sky (hence the crazy aerial photos).

The article is poorly written, it blames LEDs for increased light pollution when the increase is actually due to the expansion and growth of cities. In a case like the City of Chicago, the borders are fixed and we already have all the streetlights we're ever gonna have, so the switch to LED can only improve things.

Now, the different hue/frequency of light may have adverse effects on wildlife (or humans) within cities, but due to the full-cutoff designs, the new generation of LED lighting should prevent the spillover of city light into the surrounding rural or wild areas, and make those areas better for wildlife than they are now.
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  #49  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 3:14 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Wouldn't that be catastrophic for crime prevention, though?
That's the usual argument, but I can't help but wonder if the reality would be the opposite: Criminals have to see too, and if it's too dark for them to see anything, they might skip it altogether and stay home.

You could also argue that, if it was really dark, criminals escaping some crime they just committed would crash their cars more often, running into trees and whatnot, which would make it easier to catch them.

I think it would be worth an experiment, at least. Pick a certain crime-prone area of a city, and for a few weeks or a month or whatever, turn off all streetlights except maybe the major roads after about 10, and see what happens.
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  #50  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 3:40 AM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
I think it would be worth an experiment, at least. Pick a certain crime-prone area of a city, and for a few weeks or a month or whatever, turn off all streetlights except maybe the major roads after about 10, and see what happens.
And that's the impetus for my new movie script.
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  #51  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 4:02 AM
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And that's the impetus for my new movie script.

Sounds interesting. But I'd take it up a notch.

Here's the idea...

1) One Day out of the year, shut the lights off after 10 pm in a crime ridden neighborhood (total blackout). Must be a neighborhood that does not like MAGA folks.

2) Designate a start point and an end point which has to equal to 1 mile in length.

3) Gather a few contestants and give them these supplies: Flashlight, map of the streets, and take away any electronics bar the flashlight.

4) Give them a red MAGA hat, but put a little beacon on it that shines red amidst the dark night.

5) Give some of the locals hammers, and 2x4's with spikes in them, with carte blanche to do whatever they like.

6) Strap contestants with a vest that will detonate and can be turned off by going to the end point as described in #2 under 15 minutes.


Let the games begin!

Broadcast on CNN. Grab some popcorn, and watch some wholesome, family gathering television.
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  #52  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 4:41 AM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Sounds interesting. But I'd take it up a notch.

Here's the idea...

1) One Day out of the year, shut the lights off after 10 pm in a crime ridden neighborhood (total blackout). Must be a neighborhood that does not like MAGA folks.

2) Designate a start point and an end point which has to equal to 1 mile in length.

3) Gather a few contestants and give them these supplies: Flashlight, map of the streets, and take away any electronics bar the flashlight.

4) Give them a red MAGA hat, but put a little beacon on it that shines red amidst the dark night.

5) Give some of the locals hammers, and 2x4's with spikes in them, with carte blanche to do whatever they like.

6) Strap contestants with a vest that will detonate and can be turned off by going to the end point as described in #2 under 15 minutes.


Let the games begin!

Broadcast on CNN. Grab some popcorn, and watch some wholesome, family gathering television.
Ha!

Coincidentally, the dystopian future depicted in the film, The Running Man, takes place in the year 2019.
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  #53  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 7:13 AM
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Turning off street lights does not lead to more crime or accidents – study

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ccidents-study

^ That's a study based on 14 years of data from 62 local authorities across England and Wales. Similar studies happened almost a decade earlier in Germany and reached the same conclusion. What research does show is that brighter streetlighting (esp. when the light is bluer LEDs) can harm animals at many levels of the food chain, reducing biodiversity. And it impacts human sleep, which causes all kinds of health problems for us and probably makes us more violent and antisocial. The result is that many German cities have been reducing, not increasing, the number and brightness of their streetlights. It makes them far nicer to walk around at night. US cities are many times brighter than their German counterparts.

What many cities trade, then, for the perception of safety is actual human health and biodiversity. What if we tried to make the nighttime environment more pleasant for everybody rather than less friendly to criminals? Maybe that would encourage more people to walk outside at night, which would actually make the streets safer?
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  #54  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 2:13 PM
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here's a side by side shot of the new and old lights at the end of our block where the alley opens to the street.

an old sodium street light is on the left and a new LED light they just put in our alley is on the right.

i will dearly miss the orange.

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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 20, 2019 at 3:38 PM.
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  #55  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 2:25 PM
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like others, i hated them at first but quickly grew to like the new LED
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  #56  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
I've been reading stuff lately on how night lighting messes with our circadian rhythms and all kinds of other things, and it's made me wonder if they should do away with all street lighting (except, maybe some major roads and freeways) after, say, 10 or 11 at night. People will sleep better. All that night lighting messes with nature a lot, too. They've attributed declines in firefly populations to night lighting, for example.
not sure how i feel about this. i've lived in st. louis city neighborhoods that were lit up very brightly, including alley lights which CAN be super annoying in your bedroom, and i've lived in st. louis county urban neighborhoods (with proper alleys, etc) which have a completely different lighting regime... kind of creepy at night since the streetlight density is about 1/2 of the city. however, there's less problems with light coming into bedrooms. my biggest complaint about less street-lighting is going for a walk at night, walking the dog, walking from the bar, not seeing pedestrians at night...

i think the solve here is to restrict upward light pollution and use LEDs in the proper light spectrum, which isn't happening.
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  #57  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encolpius View Post
Turning off street lights does not lead to more crime or accidents – study

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ccidents-study

^ That's a study based on 14 years of data from 62 local authorities across England and Wales. Similar studies happened almost a decade earlier in Germany and reached the same conclusion. What research does show is that brighter streetlighting (esp. when the light is bluer LEDs) can harm animals at many levels of the food chain, reducing biodiversity. And it impacts human sleep, which causes all kinds of health problems for us and probably makes us more violent and antisocial. The result is that many German cities have been reducing, not increasing, the number and brightness of their streetlights. It makes them far nicer to walk around at night. US cities are many times brighter than their German counterparts.

What many cities trade, then, for the perception of safety is actual human health and biodiversity. What if we tried to make the nighttime environment more pleasant for everybody rather than less friendly to criminals? Maybe that would encourage more people to walk outside at night, which would actually make the streets safer?
I would like to see this study replicated in the United States where there are actually violent criminals with guns walking around at night, in countless neighborhoods.
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  #58  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 3:36 PM
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I am very happy with the new LED lights, mainly because of night pollution and that colors read true.

I liked the Chicago orange; flying in to the airports at night was cool AF, the nostalgia factor, grit, etc., but these LED lights are just so superior.

I originally HATED LED lights (10023, I have a similar story re: xmas lights)and how cold they were, but then learned all about Kelvin temperature. For those that hate how cool LED lights can be, make sure you get nothing above 2700 Kelvin for general lighting, and maybe a little higher to spot light art, etc.

I think Chicago is using 3000K, and they can be dimmed remotely. It makes a HUGE difference. They have switched out the lights on my street and while the street is brighter, the second stories of the buildings are not as brightly lit, because they can control the spread of the light. Of course that has been ruined by the parking lot nearby that must be at 4000K and are on higher poles which, ugh.

I read about a city that put 4500K in without checking with citizens and they are in revolt about it.

As to the increase in light pollution due to LED's, that is an unintended consequence. They use so much less power and are so replaced so infrequently that people worldwide are using MORE lighting at night.
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  #59  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 3:44 PM
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Not a fan of LED lighting at all, but I actually loathe the orange sodium lights even more. Growing up in Calgary I had to have blackout blinds so my room wasn't constantly bathed in an orange glow.

Most of central Toronto uses white metal halide "acorn lights" that are much less harsh than LED options and I find to be the best option. Back in the 80s (IIRC) the original white lights were being replaced with orange ones to save money, but there was such an outcry they came up with the metal halide option. I'd say about 80% of the streets in the "old city" have these lights, and you can actually make out the boundaries in nighttime satellite views.



https://tsfdb.fandom.com/wiki/Acorn_...lide_Luminaire


You can make out the old city in this image;


https://torontoist.com/2013/02/a-col...adfieldspace5/
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  #60  
Old Posted May 20, 2019, 4:15 PM
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here's st. louis at night from the ISS, wherein you can clearly see the city limits.


wikipedia.com
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