Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by Luisito

How has the train been working out? Are people satisfied with the service?

Service has been very good for me. I use the train 10+ times a week (40+ times a month) for pretty much everything (going out, commuting to work, running errands, etc...). I have made a decision to live car free and feel that stage one compliments that very well.

That being said, I live and work close to the original transitway so using the train is easier for me than most. I am also aware that there are bus connection issues and have experienced them from time to time. For me though, train life is way better than my old bus-only life both in terms of reliability and length of time it takes me getting to where I need to go.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I could see how these spots could face such issues.

For Blair, I feel like the City/OC focused too much on the suburban transfers, which resulted in the retention of the old elevators, the one entrance from the mall side and the relatively few fare gates and TVMs. I honnestly didn't think it would be so busy that it would cause issues (other than the single elevator).

For St-Laurent, I hadn't thought of how the westbound platform's role as the "starting point" for many commuters would mean congestion issues to use the TVM, but now that you mention it, it makes a lot of sense.

For Rideau, I just assumed there were more two TVMs per entrance considering this is probably the busiest station on the system in terms of consistency throughout the day (no rush, just a consistent flow of shoppers, students, workers, tourists and other). Lyon and Parliament have an enormous amount of TVMs, why not Rideau?

On O-Train Fans, David Bellerive pointed to vertical circulation issues at uOttawa's eastbound platform:


https://www.otrainfans.ca/forum/topi...t&comment=1871

My response:


https://www.otrainfans.ca/forum/topi...t&comment=1872

Blair, St. Laurent and Rideau all share the problem of being at shopping/retail destinations, which by nature attract riders who are not commuters and are less likely to have monthly passes or even Presto cards. All three also serve a portion of the population that is less likely to be able to afford to have a monthly pass or funds tied up on a Presto card. A quick chat with the S&B tech one day confirmed that those machines are absolutely hit hardest. Blair and St. Laurent have even managed to fill with change before they could be emptied, and they hold an astronomical amount of change.

[Brannwagon]

Originally Posted by Luisito

How has the train been working out? Are people satisfied with the service?

Regarding the O-Train itself, I don't want to downplay the issues others have had but I would give it a 9.5/10 based on my own experience. Fast, reliable, smooth, and delays are kept to a bare minimum (probably because I rarely ride at peak).

The bus service (and the resulting headaches trying to transfer to and from the O-Train) is the real issue.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Luisito

How has the train been working out? Are people satisfied with the service?

Personally? I haven't had a hitch when using it, and I use transit a lot.

Admittedly, I work-commute outside of peak, which helps avoid the worst of the problems which have occurred.

I just really hope that some lessons learned are being applied to the next phase.

[CityTech]

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

I am fit enough to walk not only the 300m that are part of the OCT standards, but further if necessary. We often walk from Tunney's because it is faster. On our way to Tunney's we could walk to Westboro and take a transitway bus but that is an 8 minute walk and, in the middle of the day, transitway buses just don't feel as frequent as they used to be. If I have to wait 10 minutes, then walking to Tunney's would have been faster.

I live very near (closer than you do) to Westboro station, am a frequent user, and I find bus frequencies more or less unchanged outside of peak (at peak, I think they're higher, but hard to tell as they were always pretty high anyway). Every wait heading to Tunney's from Westboro to date --and there's been dozens, at all hours of the day, in fact most have been in the evenings--have been under 10 minutes. All but a handful are under 5.

To answer OP's question, I find that if I'm heading downtown, the downtown-bound trip is better than before (bus-to-train is a very easy transfer, and the train gets downtown so much faster than the old buses did....), but the return trip less so, mostly because of how trips to Westboro station are split between the opposite sides of the station at Tunney's (as you mentioned), and also how bus drivers are almost always a minute or two late leaving their layup points.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by CityTech

I live very near (closer than you do) to Westboro station, am a frequent user, and I find bus frequencies more or less unchanged outside of peak (at peak, I think they're higher, but hard to tell as they were always pretty high anyway). Every wait heading to Tunney's from Westboro to date --and there's been dozens, at all hours of the day, in fact most have been in the evenings--have been under 10 minutes. All but a handful are under 5.

Thanks for the feedback. The 16 in many ways is a great bus for us so we've used Westboro going eastbound only once since October. Adjusting our travel time, because of a lack of strict timing on our part, is the reason for that but I've been reading about people complaining so it is nice to get a different point of view.

In the spring, we were headed down to the market on a Sunday morning and ended up waiting for 30 minutes for a transitway bus. My daughter and family had the same issue on their end and there were texts back and forth since we'd both allowed 45 minutes for the trip (we had a reservation) and both of us were going to be late. Fortunately, another person joining us was driving so he showed up on time and we didn't lose the reservation.

[roger1818]

I don't work downtown, so have little need to use the O-Train, but from the feedback I am hearing on this forum, the issues people are having aren't with the train itself, but the connecting bus service. I think part of the problem is that we still have too many different routes running along the transitway and then splitting off further down the line, since it is challenging to coordinate the schedules of different routes with different end to end travel times. This may not be so much of a problem during peak periods, when frequencies are high anyway, but off peak, when you have longer waits for the bus you want.

I strongly believe we should be merging routes 74 and 75 to one route that goes to Barrhaven Centre as well as routes 57, 61, 62 and 63 with one route that goes to Terry Fox. A combination of Local, Frequent and Connexion routes could then be added to properly service the different branches those routes take. In Orleans they have already done somethings similar to this by merging routes 91, 95 and 104 into a single route 39.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

2 transfers? As in local bus to buses that use the existing transitways and then the LRT?

Will Phase 2 solve much of that?
Would it be better if all local routes entered the Transitways?

Unless they extend our route to Hurdman, Phase 2 and 3 don't make any difference.

Some local routes were extended to Hurdman in preparation for rail. That was the original intention for our route as well. But in the end, they didn't do it. The 20 minutes it would take to run buses from Greenboro to Hurdman and back was considered too expensive.

It is quite clear that there were budgetary issues that required that they curtail local service and we have seen a lot of problems with that. They are addressing part of this but the focus is almost entirely on peak period service.

We seem to be a forgotten outpost because we don't fit in well with the Trillium Line plan. There is lots of modest income housing in my neighbourhood and transit only takes us a short distance beyond what I would call walking distance before you have to transfer.

I have a choice, bus-bus-train or bus-train-train. I have used the C-Line several times since it opened but almost every time I used a park n ride. The second transfer is just too risky for getting home in a reasonable time frame.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I don't work downtown, so have little need to use the O-Train, but from the feedback I am hearing on this forum, the issues people are having aren't with the train itself, but the connecting bus service. I think part of the problem is that we still have too many different routes running along the transitway and then splitting off further down the line, since it is challenging to coordinate the schedules of different routes with different end to end travel times. This may not be so much of a problem during peak periods, when frequencies are high anyway, but off peak, when you have longer waits for the bus you want.

I strongly believe we should be merging routes 74 and 75 to one route that goes to Barrhaven Centre as well as routes 57, 61, 62 and 63 with one route that goes to Terry Fox. A combination of Local, Frequent and Connexion routes could then be added to properly service the different branches those routes take. In Orleans they have already done somethings similar to this by merging routes 91, 95 and 104 into a single route 39.

There is a big difference between what has happened in Orleans and your other suggestions. The 91, 95 and 104 were following the same route to Orleans. The other routes do not. Your suggestions for the west and south ends, would just add more transfers and uncertain connections at distant locations, much like what I have been complaining about for my own neighbourhood. Creating additional uncertain transfers makes transit less usable.

I don't think there is any benefit in creating a double hub and spoke model. Hub to sub hub to spoke. A hub and spoke model is dependent on frequency to be high in both directions for transfers to work well.

[TransitZilla]

Lots to unpack here.

Originally Posted by SidetrackedSue

I'm not. Semi-retired casual user here (2
- 3x per month). Moved to my current location to be on the transitway so I could take transit or walk instead of driving everywhere. I also represent seniors in this complex who cannot walk more than 200m and who moved here because of the excellent bus service.

The train complicates everything because now the bus service is so poor. And the train doesn't go very many places useful. Like a grocery store.

Stage 2 will help a lot. But we were promised that Stage 1 would solve the transit issues for people. It hasn't. It has created transit issues for seniors in my building who wanted to continue to age at home so moved to live where there was bus service to things like grocery stores, banks and pharmacies.

I don't know exactly where you are, but no doubt Westboro is one of the places where Stage 1 has made things a bit more difficult because you need to transfer after 1 station. Stage 2 will fix that. Are you walking distance to Westboro station or do you need to catch a local bus?

My husband and I took a HUGE hit in service since we lost our local bus that takes us to shopping and doctor's appointments. We are still fit enough to walk to the grocery store but the bus is no longer useful for that so if we have a heavy load, we drive.

Where are you headed to the grocery store? I understand the 81 used to serve Westboro beach and go all the way down to Clyde/Basleine; is that were you are doing your shopping?

A while back I suggested extending the 16 to Richmond Rd to serve the Superstore before looping back to end at Westboro station. Would that help you and the folks in your neighbourhood?

Until Stage 2, we are actually choosing to drive more than we used to. While the construction was happening downtown, it always made sense to transit down there. Now, since we usually go evenings and weekends, driving and parking is faster, reliable and cheaper. Even if only one of us is going.

So we lost useful local service. We lost convenient one-bus trip to downtown.

Haven't you actually gained the 16 which goes right downtown from Westboro Beach? The old 81 stopped at Tunney's and forced a transfer.

Bus connections from Tunney's can involve long, cold, waits at times or insane crowds at other times. Our local bus to/from there is cancelled regularly. Sometimes becoming a ghost bus, entering Tunney's but never continuing on to our place despite the GPS telling us it was coming.

Because Tunney's is the start point for so many routes, there is no GPS service to tell us when the next bus will come. At least that's what has happened to me when I start texting the 560 number while on the train.

OC has promised an IT upgrade later this year which will apparently improve the prediction of departure times from the first stop on the route. This isn't a new problem but is now visible to many more people since many more people catch buses at Tunney's, Hurdman and Blair.

You can't plan how to get home when you get off the train because you don't know which bus will actually show up. To complicate matters further, we have to choose between bus stops that are quite a distance from each other.

In October, OC Transpo extended another local route to offer some replacement service for what we lost, but only every 2 hours. The trip planner didn't have the schedule for that route until into December and the paper schedule never had the times at all for our part of the route. I knew it was infrequent (4x per day, once every 2 hours) but now it has been cancelled completely in the January update to the system.

Are you talking about the 153? Because it does show up in the schedule: https://www.octranspo.com/en/plan-yo...200113&rte=153

So, no, I'm not happy with the LRT. And that's not even commenting on reliability, or the fact that the 560 system no longer works, or the trip planner is crap. The trip planner wasn't working again today. I was actually concerned our local bus had stopped running on Saturdays but then found reference to Saturday service. It is just the trip planner that won't offer me trips on it.

Our car-free daughter has also taken a huge hit. She also lives on the transitway (on purpose since she's chosen to live car-free) and her 45 min single bus to us is now bus/train/bus assuming things are working well. She's doing it with a double stroller so the elevator at Blair is a challenge for her often.

So, no, not happy with the LRT. I might be in 5 years. But I don't expect to be happy for 5 years. From where I sit, the system is currently focused on only serving commuters from the suburbs. That's a worthy goal, but for those who live within the urban area and want to use the bus for living, not commuting, the loss of service has been a shock.

I understand you are frustrated, but most of these issues are not related to the LRT per se, they are related to the connecting bus service and/or the project limits of Stage 1. Stage 2 extends the train further east and west.

But there will always be people who may have to change from a bus to a train and that shouldn't be considered disqualifying in and of itself. Connections are necessary for a transit system to be functional. But we certainly need to make sure our bus service is frequent enough that connection waits will be short.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There is a big difference between what has happened in Orleans and your other suggestions. The 91, 95 and 104 were following the same route to Orleans. The other routes do not.

I disagree. Routes 74 and 75 both follow the same route from Tunnies Pasture all the way to Fallowfield station in Barrhaven. From there route 74 branches off and provides equivalent to "Frequent" along Woodroffe and across the Vimmy Bridge to Riverview. The 75 extends beyond Barrhaven Centre, providing local service to the south in a loop, something that would be better done with a local bus, rather than tying up a high capacity bus on a Rapid route. By having, during off peak, only 1 route to Barrhaven that runs to Barrhaven Centre, you would end up with more frequent and evenly spaced service, especially south of Fallowfield. During peak periods, when demand is high, the replacement for the 74 could be extended to Tunnies Pasture.

Admittedly in the west it is a bit messier. Routes 57, 61, 62 and 63 all go to Bayshore and the 57 splits off there. The 6x routes go to Moodie but in Kanata it is a mess, since there isn't a Transitway for them to follow.

• Route 61 stops at Eagleson and Terry Fox (but not Teron)
• Westbound route 62 stops at Teron and Terry Fox (but not Eagleson)
• Westbound route 63 stops only at Teron (but not Eagleson and Terry Fox).

This makes service totally haphazard. By having one route between Tunnies Pasture and Kanata, it would make the schedule much more frequent and reliable during the off peak. By all means during peak periods extend other routes to Tunnies Pasture.

Your suggestions for the west and south ends, would just add more transfers and uncertain connections at distant locations, much like what I have been complaining about for my own neighbourhood. Creating additional uncertain transfers makes transit less usable.

You are assuming all routes in the west end go to Tunnies Pasture. This just isn't the case, so while I agree it would create more transfers for some, it would be the same number of transfers for others and those would have a much more frequent and evenly spaced route to transfer to.

Also, it isn't creating new uncertain connections, it is just moving them closer to your destination, where an Uber or taxi becomes more affordable, if the connection ends up being bad.

I don't think there is any benefit in creating a double hub and spoke model. Hub to sub hub to spoke. A hub and spoke model is dependent on frequency to be high in both directions for transfers to work well.

This change would also make the Rapid routes more reliable as they would be (mostly) sticking to the Transitway (Kanata being the exception as there is no Transitway or bus lanes). These routes would be much more frequent than each of the individual routes we currently have and they would be much more evenly spaced to even out the waiting time.

As many have said here, transferring to Line 1 isn't an issue because it is so frequent. Having a frequent buses to the suburbs will make that transfer a non issue.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Admittedly in the west it is a bit messier. Routes 57, 61, 62 and 63 all go to Bayshore and the 57 splits off there. The 6x routes go to Moodie but in Kanata it is a mess, since there isn't a Transitway for them to follow.

• Route 61 stops at Eagleson and Terry Fox (but not Teron)
• Westbound route 62 stops at Teron and Terry Fox (but not Eagleson)
• Westbound route 63 stops only at Teron (but not Eagleson and Terry Fox).

This makes service totally haphazard.

This is something else that could be fixed with- gasp- a BRT Transitway between March/Eagleson and Terry Fox, and could be built years sooner (for much less $) than LRT Stage 3.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

This is something else that could be fixed with- gasp- a BRT Transitway between March/Eagleson and Terry Fox, and could be built years sooner (for much less $) than LRT Stage 3.

I'm not so sure. With the MSF west of Moodie, Stage 2 has already done the heavy lifting of getting past Moodie drive. As a result, extending from Moodie station to Terry Fox station will only cost $710 million.

For a BRT Transitway between March/Eagleson and Terry Fox you would need to find a way to get eastbound buses to the south side of the 417 to use the bus lanes there (the O-Train would run on the north side in both directions) and you still need the big station at March/Eagleson to allow access to the park and ride. Having eastbound buses zigzag across the 417 doesn't make much sense. This is a case where we should do the right thing first.

I do agree that the additional $1.14 billion to extend the O-Train from Terry Fox station to Hazeldean doesn't make sense and would be better spent as BRT. With the money saved, you could probably also build BRT to Kanata North.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I'm not so sure. With the MSF west of Moodie, Stage 2 has already done the heavy lifting of getting past Moodie drive. As a result, extending from Moodie station to Terry Fox station will only cost $710 million.

For a BRT Transitway between March/Eagleson and Terry Fox you would need to find a way to get eastbound buses to the south side of the 417 to use the bus lanes there (the O-Train would run on the north side in both directions) and you still need the big station at March/Eagleson to allow access to the park and ride. Having eastbound buses zigzag across the 417 doesn't make much sense. This is a case where we should do the right thing first.

I do agree that the additional $1.14 billion to extend the O-Train from Terry Fox station to Hazeldean doesn't make sense and would be better spent as BRT. With the money saved, you could probably also build BRT to Kanata North.

The only reason the 61 turns left onto Eagleson is that it needs to serve the Park and Ride. If some kind of interim station could be built at March/Eagleson including a pedestrian bridge to the Park & Ride, then the 61, 62 and 63 would all serve the Eagleson Park & Ride, and the 61/62 could be combined into one route between Eagleson and Terry Fox.

This would also improve transit within Kanata by making it easier to transfer between routes to Kanata South and Kanata North.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

The only reason the 61 turns left onto Eagleson is that it needs to serve the Park and Ride. If some kind of interim station could be built at March/Eagleson including a pedestrian bridge to the Park & Ride, then the 61, 62 and 63 would all serve the Eagleson Park & Ride, and the 61/62 could be combined into one route between Eagleson and Terry Fox.

This would also improve transit within Kanata by making it easier to transfer between routes to Kanata South and Kanata North.

I tend to agree but I think it would end up costing almost as much as a line 1 extension to Terry Fox. As I said before, the problem is how do you quickly and easily get easily get eastbound buses from that interim March/Eagleson station to the the bus lanes on the south side of the 417. That is a feature that isn't necessary for Stage 3.

FYI, here is a diagram of the preferred station layout from the Kanata Stage 3 Environmental Assessment Study second open house. I expect this station is a very significant portion of the $710 million.

[TransitZilla]

^

I wouldn't do anything for EB bus access. I'd do something like this:

-Build the underpasses at the loop ramp and Eagleson and build a WB-only bus roadway from the WB 417 off-ramp to south end of the OPP Roadway. These would be converted for LRT later.
-Build bus platforms along the OPP Roadway close to Campeau to replace the existing Teron station
-Build the signalized intersection at Campeau
-Build the pedestrian overpass from the bus loop to the Park and Ride


WB buses would split off from the 417 off-ramp, take the new bus roadway under Eagleson, serve the station, then turn left onto Campeau at the new intersection. 62 would continue along Campeau; 63 turns north onto Teron.

EB buses would remain on Campeau, stopping near the new intersection, then turn right onto Eagleson, and left into the Park & Ride/417 as they do today.

[Uhuniau]

What is a "Bus Terminal | French"?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Luisito

How has the train been working out? Are people satisfied with the service?

I guess I'm a success story. For me my commute is much better after LRT. I travel from Walkley station to Parliament daily. The biggest change is a) my commute time is now very consistent b) Parliament is a far far warmer and brighter place to wait then the old bus stop on Albert, where I could spend anywhere from 1 minute to 30 playing Ottawa's favorite gameshow: " Is my bus going to show up?"

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Luisito

How has the train been working out? Are people satisfied with the service?

As a former non transit rider I am extremely impressed with phase one and very much looking forward to phase two. I haven't rode buses in 20 years but I take every opportunity to ride the train. I often bounce between Rideau, St. Laurent and Gloucester Centre for various errands on the train. It's great to park the car and ride the train when the weather is bad or there is traffic or just because it's fun and relaxing (unlike buses which cause me great anxiety). I love that my daughter rides free until she turns 6 so it only costs $3.55 for us to use the trains for 90-105 minutes. I am looking most forward to when Phase 2 extends to park and rides. I drive around the city for work but there are a lot of days when I could just park at Baseline and visit clients by train after Phase 2 opens.

[SidetrackedSue]

Originally Posted by Harley613

It's great to park the car and ride the train .

Since you are in Wakefield, where are you parking the car?