Protests and their effects on Ottawa

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

No, but by her explanation, non-stop honking should be acceptable. Which puts us in quite the predicament, because I highly doubt she supports “making people uncomfortable” in the context of the freedom convoy.

Just another example of what I mentioned earlier, about our tolerance for protests being dictated by our own degree of support for the cause(s) being supported.

She might find non-stop honking acceptable, I don't know. I think there's a legitimate conversation to be had on how we can use a protest to enact meaningful change (that's in response to the person who posted the AOC tweet too, I forget your name, haha). I can't say I have a good answer but I can say that hurting/threatening people is the wrong way to go. I'm sure there are segments of this trucker convoy that agree with that too and it'd be nice if they forcefully condoned it.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by MichelKazan

No building permit?

Maybe we should put these guys in charge of the NCC pop-up bistro program.. I'm sure they'll be open for business tomorrow!

[Jimmy Nimby]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

I'm legitimately confused by your post. Who in this forum said that damage/violence that occurred as a result of BLM protests in the US (from those on the right or left) was good while at the same time saying that whatever's happening in Ottawa right now is bad? Maybe I missed that post?

Just as an FYI, the topic of violence at BLM protests has been studied in the US and the resulting data indicates that overall, violence was relatively low given the size and number of protests. Mainstream media outlets haven't done a good job of reporting this, which is no shock.

When violence did occur, it was mostly targeted at BLM protesters by police and counterprotesters. Yes, property was damaged and people were hurt on both sides but to suggest that the "radical left" was out there destroying everything is false (from what I've read).

Also, who are you referring to when you say "radical left"?

Lol this response perfectly demonstrates the point that seems to elude you.

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Nimby

Lol this response perfectly demonstrates the point that seems to elude you.

You didn't make a point though.

[lrt's friend]

I just saw a tractor and trailer coming into the city on Bank Street South all decked out with flags and signs in the last 10 minutes.

We should prepare for a difficult weekend.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

I'm legitimately confused by your post. Who in this forum said that damage/violence that occurred as a result of BLM protests in the US (from those on the right or left) was good while at the same time saying that whatever's happening in Ottawa right now is bad? Maybe I missed that post?

Just as an FYI, the topic of violence at BLM protests has been studied in the US and the resulting data indicates that overall, violence was relatively low given the size and number of protests. Mainstream media outlets haven't done a good job of reporting this, which is no shock.

When violence did occur, it was mostly targeted at BLM protesters by police and counterprotesters. Yes, property was damaged and people were hurt on both sides but to suggest that the "radical left" was out there destroying everything is false (from what I've read).

Also, who are you referring to when you say "radical left"?

While it's disingenuous to categorize all BLM protests in the US as equally damaging, there are definitely well-documented instances of looting, violence and other mischief that stemmed from those protests. It's pretty easy to find videos of stores being completely ransacked, including one that I found quite difficult to watch where a Black business owner was brought to tears over having his business destroyed. I'm happy to provide links if you'd like.

Were all of those heinous acts committed by protestors? For the most part, probably not. They were committed by people with who latched onto the protest despite having ill intentions from the onset. Kind of like how the freedom convoy has dealt with despicable acts of hate and desecration, despite the majority of the protesters being against those kinds of acts or viewpoints.

As for how to characterize the "radical left," it's a bit harder to describe than the far right, where you can easily list off groups such as the Three Percenters, Soldiers of Odin, Proud Boys, etc. That being said, the first group that immediately comes to mind when you talk about the far/radical left is Antifa. While the far right has somewhat watered down the meaning of Antifa by accusing anyone who disagrees with them of being part of said group (kind of like how, conversely, the term "Nazi" gets thrown around way too liberally), the core movement has definitely been pretty extreme in their campaigns, especially south of the border.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I just saw a tractor and trailer coming into the city on Bank Street South all decked out with flags and signs in the last 10 minutes.

We should prepare for a difficult weekend.

Yeah it's the calm before the storm. Walked around tonight and they seem very dug in. Well organized for the long haul with shuttles for meals, showers and the like. A small but steady stream of Local pedestrians coming to express support and the never ending honking which is the calling card of this protest.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

With an excellent chance of being re-elected!

He's running for re-election as a PPC candidate. Although his chances of re-election are not zero, it's more likely the PCs take back the riding.

[Jimmy Nimby]

Originally Posted by bartlebooth

You didn't make a point though.

Sure I did. Ideology fuelled hypocrisy is on full display here. Just wait until “the other side” has their next protest and causes trouble. It’s like childish a game of adulation/condemnation musical chairs. I support peaceful protests but condemn any protest that crosses the line of crime, violence, etc. regardless of the cause. That’s because I can separate the cause from the tactics.

[J.OT13]

Hot take from Mike Duggan: the Confederate Flag is racist in the U.S. but only a symbol of rebellion in Canada. The Nazi flag was photoshopped (?) by the media. And Terry Fox would be at the protest if he were alive today.

Not surprising at all coming from this guy.

Manif à Ottawa: le conseiller Mike Duggan défend l’utilisation du drapeau confédéré

https://www.ledroit.com/2022/02/03/m...dd8c7fab423156

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by phil235

Point taken, people are always more tolerant of protests that align with their own principles. But I do think that all protests are not created equally, and this protest is demonstrably different from anything we've seen before in Canada, both in duration and the level of harassment of regular people going about their business (which I've seen firsthand in the Glebe, and we are getting a fraction of what Centretown is). People are right to be more tolerant of a peaceful occupation of a park (for example) than whatever this is.

I think the BLM protests are a bit of a strawman in the sense that it's hard to compare someone's reaction to reports of protests taking place in another country to something that directly affects them. The current occupation is enraging people in this city across the political spectrum.

You have a point though US events are constantly referenced by Canadians (including Canadian SSPers) and are part of the Canadian narrative whether we like it or not.

She's one among many but AOC is definitely an influential figure among the militant Canadian left.

Just as a whole of bunch of American (mostly bad) actors are clearly influencing the truckers and their friends in downtown Ottawa.

Not saying you're doing this yourself but one can't pretend there is a huge amount of US influence on a specific group (ie this gang spread out across the right side of the spectrum) to the point where they're characterized as pseudo deplorable Americans on Canadian soil, and then deny that that same influence from south of the border doesn't unfurl on people with different political views

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Hot take from Mike Duggan: the Confederate Flag is racist in the U.S. but only a symbol of rebellion in Canada. The Nazi flag was photoshopped (?) by the media. And Terry Fox would be at the protest if he were alive today.

Not surprising at all coming from this guy.

Manif à Ottawa: le conseiller Mike Duggan défend l’utilisation du drapeau confédéré

https://www.ledroit.com/2022/02/03/m...dd8c7fab423156

Mike Duggan was a Dukes of Hazzard fan in his youth.

[Jimmy Nimby]

So if we’ve decided that the way to discredit a cause and vilify your political enemies is to focus on despicable actions from bad actors who are the definition of statistical outliers, then a handful of radical right wing trouble makers just need to show to the next left wing protest with hammers & sickles and neurotically focus only on that. Right? Good job everyone.

[Truenorth00]

Sorry bud. Don't buy your BS whataboutism. This isn't a protest anymore. It may have been last weekend. But not anymore. When a group of people gets so intimidating that it results in unprecedented closures of businesses and residents locked in or leaving town, that's not protests. That's intimidation from hooligans.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Hot take from Mike Duggan: the Confederate Flag is racist in the U.S. but only a symbol of rebellion in Canada. The Nazi flag was photoshopped (?) by the media. And Terry Fox would be at the protest if he were alive today.

Not surprising at all coming from this guy.

Manif à Ottawa: le conseiller Mike Duggan défend l’utilisation du drapeau confédéré

https://www.ledroit.com/2022/02/03/m...dd8c7fab423156

I'm curious what these folks would say if a protest of Muslims showed up with ISIS and Al Qaeda flags.

[Jimmy Nimby]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Sorry bud. Don't buy your BS whataboutism. This isn't a protest anymore. It may have been last weekend. But not anymore. When a group of people gets so intimidating that it results in unprecedented closures of businesses and residents locked in or leaving town, that's not protests. That's intimidation from hooligans.

I’m not disagreeing with you pal. I don’t think this unruliness should be tolerated. I don’t think any unruliness should be tolerated. Protest peacefully or be dealt with. Oh and I can also walk and chew gum at the same time.

[Jimmy Nimby]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'm curious what these folks would say if a protest of Muslims showed up with ISIS and Al Qaeda flags.

Speaking of whataboutism lol

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not saying you're doing this yourself but one can't pretend there is a huge amount of US influence on a specific group (ie this gang spread out across the right side of the spectrum) to the point where they're characterized as pseudo deplorable Americans on Canadian soil, and then deny that that same influence from south of the border doesn't unfurl on people with different political views

Maybe that is true generally, but I think that kind of glosses over what is being referenced here. We've heard here that American actors are directly involved in this protest, both in terms of funding and organization and potentially in terms of US citizens coming north to join in (though admittedly there doesn't seem to be much evidence of that yet). It's certainly been a major topic for US social media commentators and on Fox News. And I've seen more American flags in Ottawa this week than any time since Sept 11.

Yes, American politicians have an influence on other Canadian movements, but I don't think that for the most part there is much evidence of direct influence of this nature. I see the two situations as being pretty different. That said, I do find that the BLM protests are a bit of an exception, in that they feel to me like a movement that was imported wholesale that hasn't been tailored to the Canadian reality.

Personally I bristle at American influence in our political discussions, regardless of the cause. The last thing we need here is to jump wholesale into the polarized political environment that exists there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Nimby

Speaking of whataboutism lol

I was just gonna say.

We've seen ISIS, Hezbollah, etc. flags at marches in Canada before BTW.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Nimby

Speaking of whataboutism lol

My whataboutism doesn't result in Ottawa residents getting assaulted.

Do you live here or just come here to troll?