Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

What would you propose?

Could be an indoor sports facility... or as I’ve said before. A grocery store on the bottom level and food court/ food market place on the top level.

[ajiuO]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

I wonder if there's much of the structure of the original Deseret Mortuary house left behind all the boxy additions:

1940:


Today:


What an abomination. It's almost more insulting that they didn't just tear the original house down but kept bits and pieces of the original when they Frankensteined it into what we see today.

source:
http://signaturebookslibrary.org/see...-city-171-174/

I doubt much of the original front still exists. They obviously ripped most of the roof off to add another level. It just needs to go. It’s been butchered in to a total mess. Nothing about it looks good. :/

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by airhero

They could have done more good by staying and providing a voice here. Instead, they made an ultimatum with the state government, and then left, and now their voice is gone and SLC and its liberal allies are left in a weakened state. The huge Republican majority in the state has become more powerful in the process. If this was a principled move, it was a horrible one, imo. But it wasn't principled. It was largely the big retailers playing politics so they could get what they want, which is great for them, and in the end probably great for OR, but bad for us SLCers.

Thanks for saying this Airhero. I couldn't agree more. The legislature doesn't care bout SLC's suffering and actively works to undermine or ignore the city at every chance (see inland port, prison, Amazon bid, Rio Grande). The main impact of this move has been to hurt, almost exclusively, the people who support land preservation. I detect a bit of schadenfreude from the Tribune and many on the left in SLC at this stuff. "See what you've done, you silly fools, you deserve this!" which is really short sided. I got news for you: they don't care and they want you to hurt and you are a willing pawn. Black Diamond should be ashamed and boycotted for this. What a terrible thing they have done to their home city.

[Utah_Dave]

^^^^^

The whole OR and Bears ears fiasco felt very political to me. First Obama steps in and designates a new monument, and we all know how our state government feels about Obama. Republicans detests this action and protest and make probably a bigger deal out of it then most Utahns really care about for that area of the state. Then Trump is elected and promises to scale it down but has yet to do so. The liberal leaning people are infuriated Trump wins and now turn their anger towards protesting, just about everything, and what better way to express their anger then to stick it to conservative Utah. Meanwhile the republicans in the state have no intent to compromise and both sides have dug in politicaly. Then add to this any underlying issues and this is what you get.

What I have been seeing lately is politics and business are merging closer together on both sides to push an issue. Very crony capitalism. What this shows is our State government isn't as business friendly as you would like to think. The Biggest failure was our governors inability to negotiate at all with the OR. It felt very amateurish on both sides, particularly with our governor. I was very disappointed with him. I would have liked to have seen a small reduction in size to the monument coupled with the creation of another small national park, or monument, or even a state park that protected, and opened up more recreation in the northern part of the state. I would like to see more tourists and recreational opportunities spread out through the state and not just in the southern portion. There are plenty of locations in the north and western part of this state that would truly show how diverse our outdoor recreation scene could be. There are so many hidden gems throughout the state. There's no need for long lines at a few national parks. Fisher Towers is just outside of Moab and is incredible but rarely do I see more then 5 cars in its parking lot. This state took a huge step back image wise and needs to make a plan to build it back. The big five was a success, now it's time to spread it around the state and not overcrowd one area. The Tech scene and outdoor recreation should be the 2 drivers of our economy. Sadly we choked on one, if we aren't careful the tech scene could be next.

[Liberty Wellsian]

This was about business. Without a CCH Salt Lake City simply couldn't handle the merger of the two shows. I'm in the group that thinks that if the CCH was open last year SLC probably doesn't lose the show.

[Wasatch Wasteland]

Originally Posted by Liberty Wellsian

This was about business. Without a CCH Salt Lake City simply couldn't handle the merger of the two shows. I'm in the group that thinks that if the CCH was open last year SLC probably doesn't lose the show.

What the hell is the hold up still?

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland

What the hell is the hold up still?

You should ask Hughes, Neiderhauser, and Herbert. They are the men with the real power.If they wanted it done it would be done.

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

"Affordable" does not mean "affordable to 50% of the population". Don't be dense.

Also your question does not answer my question.

I wasn’t answering a question because you didn’t ask one you made a statement that I didn’t agree with. Please point out to me where your question is because maybe I am being dense. I was not saying affordable means 50% because you are right that would be dense. I was using 50% as a safe baseline to illustrate that capitalist markets have provide affordable housing to at least half the population, therefore why is there no incentive for those same markets to provide affordable housing to the other 50%? Also, I am using 50% based off the belief that those above the median household income level can afford their housing costs.

[wrendog]

Found this on reddit (don't know how to embed imgur)

https://imgur.com/03GVRnc

[Comrade]

Remember: Obama took the advise of Rob Bishop and Gary Herbert when he initially created the national monument. They offered up their ideal size, what they felt was reasonable, and the final designation was much closer to what both Herbert and Bishop initially agreed to. They then went back on it, opposed the designation and the size, despite Obama initially compromising down to the size they said was reasonable from the start.

We may have the dumbest governor in the country right now. I'm surprised Gary's brain even functions enough to tell him when to breathe.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Remember: Obama took the advise of Rob Bishop and Gary Herbert when he initially created the national monument. They offered up their ideal size, what they felt was reasonable, and the final designation was much closer to what both Herbert and Bishop initially agreed to. They then went back on it, opposed the designation and the size, despite Obama initially compromising down to the size they said was reasonable from the start.

We may have the dumbest governor in the country right now. I'm surprised Gary's brain even functions enough to tell him when to breathe.

Don't worry, Spencer Cox is smart enough to tell him to breathe.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

Don't worry, Spencer Cox is smart enough to tell him to breathe.

Too bad he listens.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Too bad he listens.

So bad. Hahahaha. 😂

[Always Sunny in SLC]

Editorial: Now is the time for more complete streets

https://www.buildingsaltlake.com/edi...plete-streets/

I didn't see this uploaded by Isaac. I could not agree more with this article. I am very disappointed in many aspects of Mayor Biskupski's administration, but none more than the failure to follow through with the master plan to move more toward a complete streets city. I am a strong believer that if we created separated bikeways throughout the city the numbers of bikers would dramatically increase.

[Marvland]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Remember: Obama took the advise of Rob Bishop and Gary Herbert when he initially created the national monument. They offered up their ideal size, what they felt was reasonable, and the final designation was much closer to what both Herbert and Bishop initially agreed to. They then went back on it, opposed the designation and the size, despite Obama initially compromising down to the size they said was reasonable from the start.

We may have the dumbest governor in the country right now. I'm surprised Gary's brain even functions enough to tell him when to breathe.

I try to stay silent on this board about this stuff but what they heck. Why not? Wrong by more than half. This is a whole drama 30 years in the making. A brief rundown: Rob Bishop proposed the PLI (Public Lands Initiative) in 2016, which was opposed vehemently by SUWA et all, and effectively killed in congress due to their wild accusations of land-slaughter and climate genocide in hopes that Bears Ears (a place-name that became made-up marketing name) would be designated. They then "win"with the Obama designation of BE. While PLI contained some troubling hard-release language for a portion of the lands, it created a patch-work of conservation areas (4.1 million acres in total) and hard-designated wilderness (2.3 million in total). SO: the left throws the hammer down on the PLI, knowing that, without a doubt, Clinton will be surely be elected and it's safe to say it backfired. Horribly. PLI is now, of course, dead as a doornail and the Republicans have now taken all the marbles and walked away. This is a small example of the brain-dead political thinking that has plagued SUWA/Sierra C etc. Answer me this, my fellow crunchy friends: Wouldn't you kill to have 2.3 MILLION ACRES OF FEDERALLY DESIGNATED WILDERNESS, THE MOST COVETED PROTECTION LEVEL OF LAND ON EARTH, IN UTAH? Yeah me too. Alas, PLI will never come back. SUWA loses, OR takes their party to Denver, hurting only leftists in SLC. This should go down as one of the most epic political fails in our states history.

Years ago, I devoted four years of my life and I have personally surveyed and mapped over a million acres of land that has been included in the various "Red Rock Wilderness Acts". Turns out these acts have universally have failed to do ANYTHING in 30 years. But they do make a great bumper sticker. I left those groups long ago when I realized that they aren't really there to do anything other than collect cash from the PEW Charitable Trust and Patagonia et al. I've learned a bunch in the last few years about public lands politics and one of the things that has been made clear to me is that the most pressing threat to our public lands in Utah is industrial tourism. Not necessarily oil and gas development. At least those things have been held in check by market economics. Let's talk about massive corporations "profiting on public lands" shall we? The Patagonia-Instagram economy has literally destroyed a multitude of once sacred places like Coyote Gulch. I went down there last year and it was chock full of human stool. Pack-rafted the Chute of Muddy Creek last year with about three hundred strangers. That is the most pressing public lands tragedy facing us now. Let those hypocrites enjoy Denver. Bet you that will not stop them, every one of them, from pooping in our canyons and peeing in our rivers.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Always Sunny in SLC

I wasn’t answering a question because you didn’t ask one you made a statement that I didn’t agree with. Please point out to me where your question is because maybe I am being dense. I was not saying affordable means 50% because you are right that would be dense. I was using 50% as a safe baseline to illustrate that capitalist markets have provide affordable housing to at least half the population, therefore why is there no incentive for those same markets to provide affordable housing to the other 50%? Also, I am using 50% based off the belief that those above the median household income level can afford their housing costs.

You're right, I apologize. I didn't phrase it as a question.

I think this is something that would require a lot more discussion than what is appropriate on this forum, but from my view, without these incentives to provide this housing, it's never going to happen.

Of course private developers want to get the highest profit margins they can by building market-rate units. Sure, some companies are willing to provide a token amount of affordable housing by building lower-quality units and buildings for low-income residents, but tell me, if the "free market" was so willing to provide that low-income housing, why is there a shortage of several thousand affordable housing units? Why would we feel the need to provide government incentives/requirements for that housing? Under the "free market" logic that you present here, private developers would've filled that gap already without any help at all. It hasn't happened.

[Liberty Wellsian]

Originally Posted by wrendog

Found this on reddit (don't know how to embed imgur)

https://imgur.com/03GVRnc

good post Marvland

My public lands complaint-Can we end sheep grazing in this state? The cattle aren't so bad but the sheep are a disaster. I would be cool with more cattle if it meant less domestic sheep.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Marvland

I try to stay silent on this board about this stuff but what they heck. Why not? Wrong by more than half. This is a whole drama 30 years in the making. A brief rundown: Rob Bishop proposed the PLI (Public Lands Initiative) in 2016, which was opposed vehemently by SUWA et all, and effectively killed in congress due to their wild accusations of land-slaughter and climate genocide in hopes that Bears Ears (a place-name that became made-up marketing name) would be designated. They then "win"with the Obama designation of BE. While PLI contained some troubling hard-release language for a portion of the lands, it created a patch-work of conservation areas (4.1 million acres in total) and hard-designated wilderness (2.3 million in total). SO: the left throws the hammer down on the PLI, knowing that, without a doubt, Clinton will be surely be elected and it's safe to say it backfired. Horribly. PLI is now, of course, dead as a doornail and the Republicans have now taken all the marbles and walked away. This is a small example of the brain-dead political thinking that has plagued SUWA/Sierra C etc. Answer me this, my fellow crunchy friends: Wouldn't you kill to have 2.3 MILLION ACRES OF FEDERALLY DESIGNATED WILDERNESS, THE MOST COVETED PROTECTION LEVEL OF LAND ON EARTH, IN UTAH? Yeah me too. Alas, PLI will never come back. SUWA loses, OR takes their party to Denver, hurting only leftists in SLC. This should go down as one of the most epic political fails in our states history.

Years ago, I devoted four years of my life and I have personally surveyed and mapped over a million acres of land that has been included in the various "Red Rock Wilderness Acts". Turns out these acts have universally have failed to do ANYTHING in 30 years. But they do make a great bumper sticker. I left those groups long ago when I realized that they aren't really there to do anything other than collect cash from the PEW Charitable Trust and Patagonia et al. I've learned a bunch in the last few years about public lands politics and one of the things that has been made clear to me is that the most pressing threat to our public lands in Utah is industrial tourism. Not necessarily oil and gas development. At least those things have been held in check by market economics. Let's talk about massive corporations "profiting on public lands" shall we? The Patagonia-Instagram economy has literally destroyed a multitude of once sacred places like Coyote Gulch. I went down there last year and it was chock full of human stool. Pack-rafted the Chute of Muddy Creek last year with about three hundred strangers. That is the most pressing public lands tragedy facing us now. Let those hypocrites enjoy Denver. Bet you that will not stop them, every one of them, from pooping in our canyons and peeing in our rivers.

The fact is, that fat, fake-baking chode of a human being reneged on the original proposal. Well fuck him. The original plan for Bears Ears nearly mirrored what Obama proposed.

The only brain-dead people here are the governor and Utah elected officials who went back on their original proposal to, I guess, spite environmentalists. Well who's getting the last laugh? It's not Trump. He doesn't give two fucks about Utah Public Land. It's not Orrin, who's too busy with his head so far up Trump's ass he doesn't know what time of day it is - it's certainly not Bishop, who looks like a greasy, slimy orange ball of fatness. And it ain't Herbert, whose ass had to get on his knees and nearly perform fellatio on Trump to appease him. It's the Outdoor Retailers. They get to leave ass-backwards Utah for a much larger, more entertaining city and in the process were able to shame the local fucks who sat idly by as the state lost one of its biggest moneymakers.

Woohoo!

[Boz]

Originally Posted by Comrade

The fact is, that fat, fake-baking chode of a human being reneged on the original proposal. Well fuck him. The original plan for Bears Ears nearly mirrored what Obama proposed.

The only brain-dead people here are the governor and Utah elected officials who went back on their original proposal to, I guess, spite environmentalists. Well who's getting the last laugh? It's not Trump. He doesn't give two fucks about Utah Public Land. It's not Orrin, who's too busy with his head so far up Trump's ass he doesn't know what time of day it is - it's certainly not Bishop, who looks like a greasy, slimy orange ball of fatness. And it ain't Herbert, whose ass had to get on his knees and nearly perform fellatio on Trump to appease him. It's the Outdoor Retailers. They get to leave ass-backwards Utah for a much larger, more entertaining city and in the process were able to shame the local fucks who sat idly by as the state lost one of its biggest moneymakers.

Woohoo!

^^^

Triggered.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by Boz

^^^

Triggered.

Are you a middle-schooler?