[Halifax] Elmwood Hotel (5189 South) | 28 M | 9 fl | U/C

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I think the Heritage Trust was too busy trying to save the historic Tilden rent a car stand that was on the lot for years to be able to advocate for such things.

I don't doubt that you may be correct.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

There is a public open house scheduled for June 8th, 2016 @ 7pm @ The Westin to discuss the proposal for a mixed-use building at 5185-89 South Street (NW corner at Barrington). It will house 8'000 sq ft of ground floor commercial and 42 residential units above.

The only information available right now is at http://principaldevelopments.com/

Was anybody here able to attend the open house?

[Dmajackson]

Design Review Committee's Report

Demolition of historic Elmwood Hotel could be one step closer
THE CHRONICLE HERALD
Published November 4, 2016 - 8:02pm
Last Updated November 4, 2016 - 9:06pm



The demolition of the historic former Elmwood Hotel on South Street could be one step closer, depending on how Halifax Regional Municipality’s design review committee votes Thursday.

Committee members will need to determine whether to accept staff recommendations to approve the “qualitative elements” and accept findings of a “Wind Impact Assessment.”

Proposed to replace the historic building is a five-storey building with a penthouse. The building would include commercial space on its first floor, underground parking and 42 residential units, including the penthouse.

...

Read More at thechronicleherald.ca

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Dmajackson

Design Review Committee's Report



Read More at thechronicleherald.ca

Hopefully the Design Review Committee can see the value in this structure. It's likely the largest wooden structure in Halifax. This would be a great loss in addition to the major demolition that has recently occurred.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Empire

Hopefully the Design Review Committee can see the value in this structure. It's likely the largest wooden structure in Halifax. This would be a great loss in addition to the major demolition that has recently occurred.

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that the Design Review Committee actually attempts to consider what value may be lost in the existing historic structure. It only appears that they are concerned with things like wind conditions around the new one.

It sounds like this one is done. I hope somebody will catalogue the heritage structures lost in the past few years as well as the ones that are going to be lost soon, so that future generations will at least know what used to be there before the prefab glass boxes.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Empire

Hopefully the Design Review Committee can see the value in this structure. It's likely the largest wooden structure in Halifax. This would be a great loss in addition to the major demolition that has recently occurred.

The DRC is pretty useless. They gave an embarrassingly enthusiastic thumbs-up to Chedrawe's Doyle Block, and it doesn't appear to really be within their mandate to consider heritage.

Our DRC is pretty worthless.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The DRC is pretty useless. They gave an embarrassingly enthusiastic thumbs-up to Chedrawe's Doyle Block, and it doesn't appear to really be within their mandate to consider heritage.

Our DRC is pretty worthless.

What a shame.

This city is being destroyed!

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

The DRC is pretty useless. They gave an embarrassingly enthusiastic thumbs-up to Chedrawe's Doyle Block, and it doesn't appear to really be within their mandate to consider heritage.

Our DRC is pretty worthless.

well its a peer committee - its not really in the architects on the committees interest to crap on their colleagues proposals.

fwiw, a demo permit was issued months ago.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

well its a peer committee - its not really in the architects on the committees interest to crap on their colleagues proposals.

fwiw, a demo permit was issued months ago.

Indeed. I wonder, is there a different model for DRCs that any other cities follow?

[Jonovision]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Indeed. I wonder, is there a different model for DRCs that any other cities follow?

The Halifax DRC is the only one in the country that is used as an approval body. Any other city with a Design Review Committee uses it as an advisory body similar to the way we have the heritage advisory committee. It also doesn't help that the industry is so small and tight knit in Halifax so as mentioned above, peers are less likely to make harsh comments on each others projects. More so though because of the prospective clients though. Client relationships are everything when competition for projects is between only a handful of firms.

[Dmajackson]

The DRC sent this proposal back to the applicant for revision. The amended proposal is back on the agenda for this Thursday;

http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/drc/...110drc611i.pdf

MOVED by Anna Sampson, seconded by John Crace:
THAT the Design Review Committee defer decision on Case 20660 and refer the matter back
to staff to work with the applicant to revise the building design in keeping with the Design
Manual as follows:
• Section 3.2.1 relative to material selection and design of the interface between the private
and public realm;
• Section 3.3.1, relative to building articulation and the relationship between the base,
middle and top; and
• Section 3.3.2, relative to building materials. MOTION PUT AND PASSED.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Jonovision

The Halifax DRC is the only one in the country that is used as an approval body. Any other city with a Design Review Committee uses it as an advisory body similar to the way we have the heritage advisory committee. It also doesn't help that the industry is so small and tight knit in Halifax so as mentioned above, peers are less likely to make harsh comments on each others projects. More so though because of the prospective clients though. Client relationships are everything when competition for projects is between only a handful of firms.

Maybe we should approach design review the way we approach tainted juries--if you can't find impartial jurors, you leave the jurisdiction. You could have architectural and planning professionals from outside the province weigh in.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Maybe we should approach design review the way we approach tainted juries--if you can't find impartial jurors, you leave the jurisdiction. You could have architectural and planning professionals from outside the province weigh in.

That's what Charlottetown does. I think it's an approach to consider if we actually want our DRC to have more impact on building designs. I did a little review a while ago and the DRC has never actually voted 'no' on a variation request (though as this file shows, they have at least sent things back for further consideration). The DRC is a bunch of very talented people, and having a DRC is a great idea, but as others have pointed out the system as set up now just has too much disincentive for the professionals in this city to put the screws to colleagues and prospective clients. As a planner, I even find it hard to honestly comment on proposals on this board for fear of whose toes I'd be stepping on.

Amusingly, I have heard of architects in other cities actually using their DRC to get what they want. The architect will design a building to their vision but the developer client will say, "no, too complicated/expensive" or something along that line. Architect will tone down their design to suit their developer client, but then call up their colleague on the DRC and say, "I want you to demand that the developer improve their design... and make your demands just happen to match my original vision."

[OldDartmouthMark]

So does the city have anything in place to protect properties that are in the proposed Barrington St. South Heritage Conservation District? I already know the answer... which is "no, it does not".

Here is a property that was built in the 1820s (yes, almost 200 years old) and was once a hotel, altered somewhat in the late 1800's and pretty much surviving in that form ever since. It is a landmark, it is in a proposed heritage conservation district, and will be a loss to the community once it's gone.

This whole situation seems somewhat preposterous to me. I mean, planning for the HCD didn't happen by accident, it's a deliberate plan to preserve 'heritage buildings' within that area. So, why not move to protect what is there so developers can't "get in under the wire", which is happening with this property and those other three just up the street. It seems completely asinine that there wouldn't be some law in place to protect the future HCD, so that there are actually heritage buildings left there once it goes through.

"Welcome to the Barrington Street South Heritage Conservation District. This building was built in 2017, but you should have seen what was here before..."

This whole situation is laughable and tragic at the same time. You'd really have to put in some effort to "F" it up any more than our city staff and politicians are doing without even trying... pathetic, really, and genuinely Halifax it appears...

[worldlyhaligonian]

Where is the HT?

[Ziobrop]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

So does the city have anything in place to protect properties that are in the proposed Barrington St. South Heritage Conservation District? I already know the answer... which is "no, it does not".

Here is a property that was built in the 1820s (yes, almost 200 years old) and was once a hotel, altered somewhat in the late 1800's and pretty much surviving in that form ever since. It is a landmark, it is in a proposed heritage conservation district, and will be a loss to the community once it's gone.

This whole situation seems somewhat preposterous to me. I mean, planning for the HCD didn't happen by accident, it's a deliberate plan to preserve 'heritage buildings' within that area. So, why not move to protect what is there so developers can't "get in under the wire", which is happening with this property and those other three just up the street. It seems completely asinine that there wouldn't be some law in place to protect the future HCD, so that there are actually heritage buildings left there once it goes through.

"Welcome to the Barrington Street South Heritage Conservation District. This building was built in 2017, but you should have seen what was here before..."

This whole situation is laughable and tragic at the same time. You'd really have to put in some effort to "F" it up any more than our city staff and politicians are doing without even trying... pathetic, really, and genuinely Halifax it appears...

in fairness, its nto the city, its the toothless heritage act.
its not a registered building, there is no district, and the province doesn't allow interm development controls while planning changes are considered unless so ordered by the minister.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Ziobrop

in fairness, its nto the city, its the toothless heritage act.
its not a registered building, there is no district, and the province doesn't allow interm development controls while planning changes are considered unless so ordered by the minister.

Thanks for clearing that up. I made an assumption that, since they were planning to make it an HCD, that they'd have some ability to protect buildings within the area until it's in place.

[Jonovision]

The DRC has approved this development this evening with a few changes to the articulation of the facade of the building as well as the street level treatments.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax...velopment.html

[Drybrain]

So I guess this is dead. The property changed hands from one group of Metlejs (Principal Developments) to another (Galaxy Properties).

According to The Coast, the city will offer "flexible" development rights and tax incentives in the new South Suburb heritage district in exchange for building conservation. (That also seems to bode well for Dexel's Barrington properties, I hope.) And that has enticed the new owners into working with city staff to preserve the building. It doesn't sound like a for-sure done deal (Galaxy could still tear down under the previously issued permit, if negotiations go badly) but it's a hell of a lot better than before.

Now, of course, it'd be nice for the city to actually implement the heritage district.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

So I guess this is dead. The property changed hands from one group of Metlejs (Principal Developments) to another (Galaxy Properties).

According to The Coast, the city will offer "flexible" development rights and tax incentives in the new South Suburb heritage district in exchange for building conservation. (That also seems to bode well for Dexel's Barrington properties, I hope.) And that has enticed the new owners into working with city staff to preserve the building. It doesn't sound like a for-sure done deal (Galaxy could still tear down under the previously issued permit, if negotiations go badly) but it's a hell of a lot better than before.

Now, of course, it'd be nice for the city to actually implement the heritage district.

Fingers are crossed. The news is encouraging.