Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Klazu]

People at the helm of these organisations are making a bank from the crisis. They have no intention of changing anything as being in the poverty business is good. They are a big part of the problem and why nothing will ever get done.

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

how does a very small percentage of the population get to live without laws or rules or being a better member of society? who funds pivot legal etc?

Well, you'll be happy to know the province funded them to the tune of about 25% of their gross revenues in 2020. (I felt dirty having to go to their website to get that. )

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

People at the helm of these organisations are making a bank from the crisis. They have no intention of changing anything as being in the poverty business is good. They are a big part of the problem and why nothing will ever get done.

Please explain how you know this? From their annual reports they only paid $800k in salaries and wages in 2020. Assuming they have more than a couple employees on the payroll, I would hardly consider that enough for anyone to "make bank".

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Klazu

People at the helm of these organisations are making a bank from the crisis. They have no intention of changing anything as being in the poverty business is good. They are a big part of the problem and why nothing will ever get done.

Really? A staff lawyer's job is currently available. "Salary for this role is between $63,500 and $68,500 commensurate with experience." Plus vacation and benefits, of course. Odd definition of 'making a bank'.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

how does a very small percentage of the population get to live without laws or rules or being a better member of society? who funds pivot legal etc?

As long as one can maneuver the system and find loopholes, anyone is entitled to the system's flaws in this country. This is compounded by the fact that no one is really interested in fixing it. The people who constantly abuse the various tiers in the system can vary from the very rich, to professionals (in healthcare etc.), and even the very poor. Everyone is entitled as long as you know how to do it, because there are no consequences in doing it, especially when one can use the pretext of "human rights" to veil such actions. This is very similar to how you couldn't fight certain "religious" authorities back in medieval times when many crude and evil acts could be ill-construed as "mandates from heaven". Unfortunately today, there are also many legal loopholes when criminals and other undesirables are let off based on technicalities, etc. The legal tools, including the pivot legal society, can be guilty of such acts by helping crooks, especially when there are no other oversight bodies to monitor such organizations.

[whatnext]

So much winning in Kennedy Stewart's Vancouver:

Vancouver police deal with weekend of violence and mayhem
Stabbings and shootings in the Downtown Eastside and Downtown core among heavy weekend call load
Author of the article: David Carrigg
Publishing date: Sep 13, 2021

Vancouver police were stretched thin with a string of shootings, stabbings and other major crimes over the weekend that followed reports of a 76-year-old woman who was sexually assaulted.

In a prepared statement, Vancouver Police Department spokesman Sgt. Steve Addison said more than 30 officers were already investigating the case of the elderly woman who was violently sexually assaulted, when an unusually high load of violent calls came in starting Friday night....

https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/...nce-and-mayhem

[Feathered Friend]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So much winning in Kennedy Stewart's Vancouver:

Sure, never mind that the NPA was just one seat shy of an outright majority, and has since completely fractured, or that under Vancouver's civic system the mayor is essentially equal in power to any other councilor...

Wanting to address/comment on real events is one thing. However, constant, blatant, and at best somewhat misleading politicking is another, and I would hope for better on this forum.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Feathered Friend

Sure, never mind that the NPA was just one seat shy of an outright majority, and has since completely fractured, or that under Vancouver's civic system the mayor is essentially equal in power to any other councilor...

Wanting to address/comment on real events is one thing. However, constant, blatant, and at best somewhat misleading politicking is another, and I would hope for better on this forum.

He's the Mayor and the one who championed freezing the police budget so, yeah, he wears it.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

He's the Mayor and the one who championed freezing the police budget so, yeah, he wears it.

I didn't realize a mayor can unilaterally do anything.

I also didn't realize throwing money at a problem was always the solution. If that was the case, Memphis, Tennessee, which spends 38% of its annual budget on police, would not rank second in America in violent crimes per 100k people.

[SpongeG]

we walked down water street this afternoon, across the street from the new maison kitsune location were two people sitting surrounded by piles of their stuff, they looked nearly dead, sitting upright, the one girl had a needle in her hand not moving and loads of tourists in the street just having to walk past. They don't even try to do their shooting up in the alleys anymore just plunk down anywhere and shoot up.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

So much winning in Kennedy Stewart's Vancouver:

Vancouver police deal with weekend of violence and mayhem
Stabbings and shootings in the Downtown Eastside and Downtown core among heavy weekend call load
Author of the article: David Carrigg
Publishing date: Sep 13, 2021

Vancouver police were stretched thin with a string of shootings, stabbings and other major crimes over the weekend that followed reports of a 76-year-old woman who was sexually assaulted.

In a prepared statement, Vancouver Police Department spokesman Sgt. Steve Addison said more than 30 officers were already investigating the case of the elderly woman who was violently sexually assaulted, when an unusually high load of violent calls came in starting Friday night....

https://vancouversun.com/news/crime/...nce-and-mayhem

WarrenC12: any comments on that? Or do you still think this is made up and a thing of fantasy? When citizens sit back and not voice any concerns, things will only get out of hand.

Originally Posted by SpongeG

we walked down water street this afternoon, across the street from the new maison kitsune location were two people sitting surrounded by piles of their stuff, they looked nearly dead, sitting upright, the one girl had a needle in her hand not moving and loads of tourists in the street just having to walk past. They don't even try to do their shooting up in the alleys anymore just plunk down anywhere and shoot up.

That's because they are entitled to do so with Vancouver residents tolerating the situation and authorities having the "hands off" approach. Really sad how the City keeps allowing this to happen. Third World in the making.

[Vin]

Slumlords the Sahota brothers at it again:

City of Vancouver considering injunction against Regal Hotel for unsafe conditions
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/rega...sro-injunction

[Vin]

Question is, why didn't the City have the VPD do this earlier? People with no foresight only have knee-jerk reactions.

VPD increasing police presence in crime-ridden downtown Vancouver
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vpd-...ncouver-safety\

However, kudos to City councillors Rebecca Bligh, Lisa Dominato, and Sarah Kirby-Yung for calling up to the urgent need of law-enforcement.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by Vin

Question is, why didn't the City have the VPD do this earlier? People with no foresight only have knee-jerk reactions.

VPD increasing police presence in crime-ridden downtown Vancouver
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vpd-...ncouver-safety\

However, kudos to City councillors Rebecca Bligh, Lisa Dominato, and Sarah Kirby-Yung for calling up to the urgent need of law-enforcement.

The police have been 'busy' elsewhere!

Vancouver police will pour out your beer and fine you $230 if you're caught
https://theprovince.com/news/local-n...f-youre-caught

Now that summer is over.. they can be deployed to 'less important' tasks.

Ron.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

The police have been 'busy' elsewhere!

Vancouver police will pour out your beer and fine you $230 if you're caught
https://theprovince.com/news/local-n...f-youre-caught

Now that summer is over.. they can be deployed to 'less important' tasks.

Ron.

If they impose stricter fines on disorderly conducts, perhaps they would not have to pour out so much beer in the fist place. I doubt they actually fine people: probably just issue lots of warnings. If they do, the increase of revenue to City coffers can allow VPD to hire more cops. It's a win-win.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

WarrenC12: any comments on that? Or do you still think this is made up and a thing of fantasy? When citizens sit back and not voice any concerns, things will only get out of hand.

Huh? What makes me the spokesperson. Looks like things are getting worse downtown. You building the gulags?

As the police say, it's a small group of career criminals causing the vast majority of the problem.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

If they impose stricter fines on disorderly conducts, perhaps they would not have to pour out so much beer in the fist place. I doubt they actually fine people: probably just issue lots of warnings. If they do, the increase of revenue to City coffers can allow VPD to hire more cops. It's a win-win.

That's not how any of this works.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Huh? What makes me the spokesperson. Looks like things are getting worse downtown. You building the gulags?

As the police say, it's a small group of career criminals causing the vast majority of the problem.

Then wouldn't it be better to put these criminals in the "gulags". Is anyone against that? You and a few others are the ones who claimed it's going to be very expensive and not going to work. Aren't we all happy to know that we just need to house a few bad hats in the city.

I see you are still trying to lighten the seriousness of the whole affair, as if the City of Vancouver is disconnected from what is happening downtown. Playing it down and giving personal snide remarks certainly won't lessen the issues plaguing this city.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

That's not how any of this works.

Please enlighten me (or us).

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Vin

VPD increasing police presence in crime-ridden downtown Vancouver
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vpd-...ncouver-safety

Things must be getting really bad Downtown when even media is starting to call the entire Downtown peninsula crime-ridden. They even found Mayor Nowhere-to-be-found to comment on this!

And just to think that it was only earlier this year that some clowns were calling for defunding Police. Oh, how times have changed.

Now, if only someone could find a correlation with certain business transactions by the city and the spike in crime in particular in West End and Yaletown... That would blow everyone's mind.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Klazu

And just to think that it was only earlier this year that some clowns were calling for defunding Police. Oh, how times have changed.

It's easy to paint the other side as "clowns" when you use inflammatory language and offer no context. Sure, you can find people on one extreme who want to abolish the police and have no plan to replace the valuable services they provide. But I could probably find people on the other extreme who want to round up all the homeless people with mental illnesses and lock them in work camps (hint: I don't have to search far).

However, most people in the "defund the police" movement presented a logical argument for reallocating police funds to organizations that provide mental health services and de-escalate risky situations where police have tended to use heavy-handed methods. It appears that the some city councilors have taken these arguments to heart. Here are some of the steps promised to constituents from the open letter penned by Bligh, Dominato, and Kirby-Yung:

• More wraparound services for people in need, including mental health and addiction treatment and recovery options.
• Supporting de-escalation information and resources.
• Ensuring police officers are trained in de-escalation, trauma informed response, conflict resolution and anti-racism.

These are slightly different from what some advocates asked for, namely that police officers are still doing the de-escalating and some think this asks officers to wear too many hats. But you would be mistaken if you think these steps aren't in line with the spirit of the "defund the police" movement.

This presents an issue with labels. "Defund the police" is a tidy catch-all, but it does not reflect the full spectrum of people. Most of the people in this movement are rational and measured, and simply wanted to re-allocate some police funding to social services that are grossly under-funded. This is kind of similar to "vaccine mandates". Very few people who are in favor of these want the unvaccinated to be physically restrained while they receive the jab against their will.