California High Speed Rail Thread

[electricron]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

Anyone have any thoughts on this selection? I don't know much about trainsets or how this will impact Brightline or other HSR throughout the US.

The Avelia HSR trainsets have front and back locomotives on each end of the train, with the driving wheels under the locomotives. The Siemens HSR trainsets have front and back facing cabs, but the driving wheels are not under the cabs, they are scattered throughout the train, like many EMUs.
The main advantage of the EMU arrangement is more driving wheels, which means less wheel slippage, and should be better at climbing and descending mountains.
Note, I wrote should be better, we will have to wait for the finished project to be certain.

[hughfb3]

Originally Posted by TowerDude

Which tunnels do people think get started first? The ones connecting Gilroy to the Central Valley Wye at Pacheco Pass or the ones between Palmdale and Burbank?

Definitely the Bay Area Pacheco pass tunnels first. The Bay & Caltrain have been ahead of the game by electrifying their lines. Metrolink and Southern California have been stalling on electrification by entertaining hydrogen trains and are years behind the bay with the CHSR connectivity.

I find it surprising that the news about the Federal government granting $3.4 Billion for the San Francisco tunnel to connect Caltrain/CAHSR to Salesforce Transit Center hasn’t been addressed on the forum. This is another indication of how far along the Bay is with preparation vs SoCal. The saving grace for SoCal is Brightline. Their project alone will propel SoCal to electrify Metrolink faster and will push the High Desert Corridor High Speed rail connection along. Its construction is a big blessing

https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/tran...fe4357d4c.html

[Busy Bee]

The DTX announcement was posted in the SF transit thread.

[homebucket]

Some more Bay Area transit specific developments that are relevant to CAHSR. Notably, it would allow for 4 HSR trips/hr.

Anyone have any suggestions which design option would be best?

Meeting Tomorrow For Diridon Station Redevelopment, San Jose



BY: ANDREW NELSON 5:30 AM ON MAY 14, 2024

New project details have been revealed ahead of tomorrow’s meeting about expanding the Diridon Station in San Jose. The Valley Transit Authority’s Diridon Joint Policy Advisory Board will review three design options to accommodate increased Caltrain services, integrate High-Speed Rail, and connect to the future BART extension. As expected for an infrastructure project in the Bay Area, the costs are astronomical, ranging from $2.5 billion to $13 billion.

The station expansion is expected to facilitate future service increases, including triple the hourly Caltrain trips, double the Capitol Corridor trips and four High-Speed Rail trips per hour. The three alternatives include elevated train tracks, at-grade train tracks, or stacked train tracks. Mott MacDonald, a global engineering firm, is responsible for drafting the alternatives.

At-Grade
The cheapest option will keep the tracks at grade while coincidentally making the most significant changes to the area around the Diridion Station. While kept at its existing elevation, the historic brick train station will be set above a new cobblestone-clad ground level. The station will remain the landmark entrance leading into the concourse.

Stacked
The Stacked option is the second most expensive option, but it would still create a new ground-level floor to the historic station building. This second alternative would not impact the PG&E facility and historic building on the south edge of Diridon Station.

Elevated
The most expensive option, which the VTA expects to cost at least $13 billion at the moment, will elevate train tracks and retain the historic structure’s positioning. The elevated and at-grade alternatives will require modifications for the PG&E facility, while the elevated plans require the Caltrain Central Equipment Maintenance and Operations Facility, or CEMOF to be relocated.

https://sfyimby.com/2024/05/meeting-...-san-jose.html

[homebucket]

And the renderings:

Looking west from SAP

At-Grade


Stacked


Elevated


Looking south from Cahill Plaza

At-Grade


Stacked


Elevated


Looking south from platform

At-Grade


Stacked


Elevated


Diridon Station

At-Grade


Stacked


Elevated


Looking east along Santa Clara Street

At-Grade


Stacked


Elevated


https://sfyimby.com/2024/05/meeting-...-san-jose.html

[twinpeaks]

At grade seems to make the most sense. I'm sure VTA will pick the most expensive to pocket their wallets.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by twinpeaks

At grade seems to make the most sense. I'm sure VTA will pick the most expensive to pocket their wallets.

Yeah, I think I like at grade as well. It's the least expensive and most user friendly/intuitive.



https://sfyimby.com/2024/05/meeting-...-san-jose.html

[TowerDude]

Wish these renders included some aerial views cause I am totally lost as to what's going on in them.

[sammyg]

That feels like they're putting the cart before the horse - those 2.5 to 13 billion dollars could be used on the Pacheco Pass tunnels so that the HSR actually gets to San Jose.

Look at the Millbrae station, built for HSR 20 years ago and looking so out of place as a local transit center.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by sammyg

Look at the Millbrae station, built for HSR 20 years ago and looking so out of place as a local transit center.

Didn't Millbrae station open a few years before we even voted on CAHSR?

[mattropolis]

those 2.5 to 13 billion dollars could be used on the Pacheco Pass tunnels

I agree, why not leave the station as is for now?
Even the at grade option seems to mean digging up the tracks if I'm looking at those cross sections properly.

[veep]

Originally Posted by craigs

Didn't Millbrae station open a few years before we even voted on CAHSR?

Five years before. And it's gonna have to be rebuilt to support HSR.

[twinpeaks]

Originally Posted by sammyg

That feels like they're putting the cart before the horse - those 2.5 to 13 billion dollars could be used on the Pacheco Pass tunnels so that the HSR actually gets to San Jose.

Look at the Millbrae station, built for HSR 20 years ago and looking so out of place as a local transit center.

I agree. build the tracks and improve the stations later.

[hughfb3]

Diridon is getting the UPGRADES!! I like the at-grade option. I can't believe they are going to dig under the building and create another floor that the building will be on top of

[FromSD]

Originally Posted by sammyg

That feels like they're putting the cart before the horse - those 2.5 to 13 billion dollars could be used on the Pacheco Pass tunnels so that the HSR actually gets to San Jose.

I agree completely. Why spend so much money on a new station when the funding to connect San Jose to CAHSR in the Central Valley has not been identified.

I had the same reaction to the renders that came out a few weeks ago for the stations on the IOS. They seemed way too grandiose for most of the stations in the Central Valley, which aren't going to see huge passenger loads, especially if high speed connections to the Bay Area and LA never happen. Maybe Fresno should get something a bit more than basic. But apart from Fresno, the other Central Valley stations should make do with with functional simplicity. It would be better to spend scarce resources on extending the high speed rail line as far as possible.

These station plans also remind me of the $900 million that LA Metro is spending on the station that connects the Crenshaw Line to the LAX People Mover. That $900 million compares to the $2 billion construction cost for the whole Crenshaw Line. I think this fixation on elaborate stations, at the expense of extending rail lines, is extremely misguided.

[craigs]

High-speed rail board supports new recommendations for L.A.-to-Anaheim segment


Work continues on the California High Speed Rail line’s Conejo Viaduct. (Robert Gauthier / Los Angeles Times)

Colleen Shalby
Los Angeles Times
May 17, 2024

The California High Speed Rail Authority’s board of directors supported new recommendations for a planned rail segment between Los Angeles and Anaheim, clearing it for a critical environmental review after the initial proposal received pushback from the community. The final environmental report is expected to take more than a year to finish, outgoing Chief Executive Brian Kelly said at Thursday’s board meeting, calling it the “final requirement we have on environmental documentation for phase one of the high-speed rail system” in compliance with federal grant obligations.

The first phase to connect the state includes a 494-mile rail line from Anaheim to San Francisco. Construction is currently underway on a 119-mile stretch in the Central Valley.

Recommendations for the 33-mile rail segment from Los Angeles to Anaheim includes four mainline tracks that would be used by the bullet train, other passenger rail and BNSF freight trains. It eliminates the initial plan to develop a freight facility for BNSF, which owns the railroad stretch from Los Angeles to Anaheim, in the city of Colton that would have housed trains not in operation. The idea received pushback from the Colton community and from BNSF.

The recommendations include a train maintenance facility at either E. 15th Street in Los Angeles or E. 26th Street in Vernon, at-grade crossings in Anaheim where the highway and high-speed rail line would be level, and no intermediate stations. The proposed line would include underground, above-ground and surface-level portions.
. . . .

[sopas ej]

I don't know if I like the idea of shared tracks and at-grade crossings, but I guess that would only be from LAUS to ARTIC?

Here's another article, from Urbanize Los Angeles:

This is how California High-Speed Rail would reach Anaheim

A staff presentation to the California High Speed Rail Authority Board of Directors reveals how the mega-project's first phase will reach its eventual southern terminus in Anaheim.

The staff recommendation, supported by the Board of Directors at its May 16 meeting, calls for high-speed trains to share track between Los Angeles Union Station and ARTIC in Anaheim. The high-speed rail project would require the construction of one additional mainline track within right-of-way owned by BNSF, resulting in a total of four. Additionally, two of the four tracks would be electrified.

With this build scenario, BNSF would able to operate up to ten freight trains per day - including on tracks which were previously planned to be passenger-rail exclusive. High speed passenger trains would be able to run at a peak service frequency of two trains per hour, per direction, which is a slight reduction from earlier plans.

This alternative cuts the estimated cost of the Union Station to Anaheim corridor from $9 billion to $6.9 billion, largely by cutting plans to build a new rail yard for BNSF in Colton, a proposal which the railroad had soured on.

Two options remain on the table for the proposed maintenance facility for high-speed rail vehicles, including one on 26th Street in Vernon and a second at 15th Street south of Downtown Los Angeles. Staff has recommended the Vernon location due to lower costs and requirements for displacement, as well as operational flexibility.

Potentially left on the cutting room floor are two optional intermediate stations, which could be located next to the existing Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs and Fullerton Stations. Both will be studied as part of the project’s environmental review, although only one of the two may be built.

[...]


CAHSR Union station to Anaheim route (CAHSRA)


Four mainline tracks (CAHSRA)


Aerial view of California High Speed Rail trains leaving Union Station through proposed run-through tracks (CAHSRA)


The main entrance of ARTIC (Wikimedia Commons)

[craigs]

Yeah, I don't understand planning for at-grade crossings. That portion of the route will get shut down all the time because of collisions with automobiles, just like with Metrolink.

[Busy Bee]

I don't understand any of it. It's like NASA insisting on a capsule heat shield that's maybe good 80% of the time and everyone is standing around pretending that's a normal and acceptable thing to do.

Will LAUS-ANAHEIM operate at very high speed? No, but that doesn't justify building it like Brightline Florida.

[TWAK]

Removing all the at-grade crossings would benefit most of the parties involved.