Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

You do realize that they are replacing the viaducts with a substantial boulevard.

I realize that adding two lanes to Pacific - lanes that would likely be taken away again for the downtown streetcar - isn't very substantial. Especially not with a crossing every hundred metres for the sake of "street interaction."

We're supposed to hit the three million mark by 2040, and whatever The Powers That Be think, the newcomers are certainly not going to bike downtown en masse. So for the sake of not letting the downtown core wither, I highly doubt that putting much of its traffic on one 4-6 lane street without a substantial rapid transit network to compensate (just imagine Canucks night or another back-to-back concert) is going to cut it in the long run. How many people will just stay at home rather than go downtown?

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

You could say the capacity is there right now on Georgia and Expo, but I would also tell you its underutilized (I live in the area).

Georgia? West Georgia? And Expo? Underutilized? I sincerely hope that I'm misinterpreting this sentence.

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

A good chunk of the viaducts traffic will be at street level instead of in the air.

The viaducts had neither traffic lights nor cross-traffic. I've taken the bus long enough to understand that with no overpasses or underpasses for the "new and improved" Pacific, travel times are going to increase by a whole lot more than three minutes.

[p78hub]

Replacing the viaducts with the proposed new Pacific Blvd isn't even a lateral move at this point, much less an upgrade. It's a significant downgrade on what currently exists, especially with the city's love affair with having traffic lights at every intersection.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by p78hub

Replacing the viaducts with the proposed new Pacific Blvd isn't even a lateral move at this point, much less an upgrade. It's a significant downgrade on what currently exists, especially with the city's love affair with having traffic lights at every intersection.

Exactly. And it's those intersections and traffic lights that bring traffic to a crawl, esp at rush hours, and cause backups and logjams. Again, time for tunnel bypasses and underpasses.
But scarcely anybody will listen, or accept that concept. Sad...........

[Vin]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

While yes the Park East doesn't exactly follow the I43 it is literally just a few blocks away from it, and can help you get to the exact same destination as the park East did. Interstate 145 can also get you to the same area just as fast . US 794 also takes you to roughly the same area and it too is literally a stones throw from where the Park East once stood, rendering it completely redundant. (especially now since as I mentioned before that route has been upgraded and expanded). When I was last in Milwaukee they had just opened that stretch of hwy after the expansion reconstruction. The map may be a little deceiving as if you are actually there, these different routes are mere blocks apart.

The situation in Vancouver is completely different. We have zero freeway connections to our downtown core, so the viaducts are anything but redundant. If we had another high capacity efficient route leading into our downtown, then yes the parallels could be made, but we don't.

As for cost, yes, it cost a lot more to redo the highway, but it is crucial to staying competitive in a very hostile business climate. Milwaukee has seen its industrial base be decimated and ensuring ease of movement of both goods and people in the region are of paramount importance to keeping what they have left. Cute coffee shops and microbrews may be pretty to look at, but you have to take care of sectors that provides well paying jobs to its citizens and drives the economy.

Even as a port city, Vancouver seems to ignore this and its economy depends on the service industry and real estate. What is the economic impact of trucks idling on city streets? What is the cost of a company choosing not to do business here, or even going elsewhere in the local region where road connections are far better? In the long run, I'd venture to say it will be a lot.

Plus the fact that there are many alternate routes one can take without being on the freeway in Milwaukee. In Vancouver, from Chinatown going towards downtown, the land narrows, with only 3 other routes that vehicles can ply to enter/exit downtown. That alone would choke up traffic tremendously.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

You do realize that they are replacing the viaducts with a substantial boulevard. You could say the capacity is there right now on Georgia and Expo, but I would also tell you its underutilized (I live in the area). A good chunk of the viaducts traffic will be at street level instead of in the air.

Definitely not underutilized. At most times, traffic just moves at a comfortable pace both on the viaducts as well as below it. The Georgia viaduct is never congested, always bringing traffic swiftly out of the downtown core, making West Georgia street on top of the cut relatively free of traffic and pleasant for everyone, including pedestrians.

On game nights or other special events, the traffic along both the viaducts and below on Pacific Boulevard are crawling with bumper-to-bumper traffic. I was walking on the Dunsmuir Viaduct yesterday just before the Canucks game and I could see Pacific Boulevard backed up from Rogers Arena all the way to Science World.

Now imagine the viaducts removed and all the additional traffic congregating onto Pacific Boulevard! On top of that, add on the additional traffic created by the new entertainment centre, pubs, restaurants and retail stores from the Plaza of Nations development, plus local residential traffic from the increased population living in the new Concord condos sprouting up in the area.

[the_prof]

Originally Posted by Vin

Now imagine the viaducts removed and all the additional traffic congregating onto Pacific Boulevard! On top of that, add on the additional traffic created by the new entertainment centre, pubs, restaurants and retail stores from the Plaza of Nations development, plus local residential traffic from the increased population living in the new Concord condos sprouting up in the area.

Sounds like a healthy big city setting. If one wants empty streets and fast access to the highway one can always move to Langley or another rural area

[Vin]

Originally Posted by the_prof

Sounds like a healthy big city setting. If one wants empty streets and fast access to the highway one can always move to Langley or another rural area

I guess you love being stuck in a 8-lane traffic jam, but that's just you.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by the_prof

Sounds like a healthy big city setting. If one wants empty streets and fast access to the highway one can always move to Langley or another rural area

Smog, congestion and an unafforable glass city.

Progress!

[Pinion]

Lol only a Vancouverite would think no infrastructure makes for a healthy big city.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Smog, congestion and an unafforable glass city.

Progress!

Also, by the time anything significant will get built; cars will most likely not be capable of making smog.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Lol only a Vancouverite would think no infrastructure makes for a healthy big city.

Quote of the week.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by s211

Quote of the week.

I'd like it as a late entry for quote of the year

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by the_prof

Sounds like a healthy big city setting. If one wants empty streets and fast access to the highway one can always move to Langley or another rural area

What's funny is local streets and non-highways in Langley are often very busy, particularly on the weekends. Some of the worst traffic I've been stuck in has been Langley and Maple Ridge on a Saturday afternoon.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Lol only a Vancouverite would think no infrastructure makes for a healthy big city.

Originally Posted by s211

Quote of the week.

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

I'd like it as a late entry for quote of the year

Hah!! It's the motto on the Vancouver city Coat of Arms.

[s211]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

I'd like it as a late entry for quote of the year

Seconded, sadly.

[theKB]

Originally Posted by p78hub

Replacing the viaducts with the proposed new Pacific Blvd isn't even a lateral move at this point, much less an upgrade. It's a significant downgrade on what currently exists, especially with the city's love affair with having traffic lights at every intersection.

There are several areas that prove that this makes way more congestion.

Cambie between 16th and the bridge comes to a grinding halt.

Cambie turning left onto marine (EB) where the light right after the intersection now has literally no synch with the major light at marine and cambie.

Dunsmuir viaduct as the lights start and cars get bunched up starting at citadel parade.

It goes on and on and is especially bad when they are not synched in any way shape or form.

The viaduct teardown will be a complete disaster. Vision keeps choking off points at which you can enter and leave the city. One would have thought that the chief proponent of the viaduct teardown (geoff meggs) leaving council would have slowed down the process just a little bit.

[stump]

Originally Posted by theKB

There are several areas that prove that this makes way more congestion.

Cambie between 16th and the bridge comes to a grinding halt.

Cambie turning left onto marine (EB) where the light right after the intersection now has literally no synch with the major light at marine and cambie.

Dunsmuir viaduct as the lights start and cars get bunched up starting at citadel parade.

It goes on and on and is especially bad when they are not synched in any way shape or form.

The viaduct teardown will be a complete disaster. Vision keeps choking off points at which you can enter and leave the city. One would have thought that the chief proponent of the viaduct teardown (geoff meggs) leaving council would have slowed down the process just a little bit.

I actually asked CoV to take a look at the intersection on Marine drive and Yukon relative to Cambie because the lack of timing was really annoying me every morning.

As you've obviously noticed, every time the light on Yukon turns red, it doesn't sync with Cambie resulting in the intersection clogging up.

Here is the unedited response from a city engineer after the closed the ticket as completed :

"Good afternoon, From the casework from traffic and data management: It's difficult to coordinate two signals which have different cycle lengths, and it's very difficult to coordinate both eastbound movements (eastbound and south to eastbound) to get the green light at Yukon. Yukon could be preempted to Marine Drive green during eastbound phases at Cambie, but there would be excessive waits for buses on Yukon. It's still under review, and there have been some improvements. Mike G 3-1-1"

There are no improvements, that's total BS. I can't wait until more and more pedestrians use that intersection as the new buildings are being finished and populated and buses aren't the only ones causing the light the change. Maybe there should be a pedestrian overpass there?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by stump

I can't wait until more and more pedestrians use that intersection as the new buildings are being finished and populated and buses aren't the only ones causing the light the change. Maybe there should be a pedestrian overpass there?

Keep in mind that this City's allergic to grade-separated walkways. Suggest an overpass or underpass at an open house, you'll get the same things - "crime," "safety," "elderly/disabled accessability" (okay, true), and "interaction with the street."

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by stump

"Good afternoon, From the casework from traffic and data management: It's difficult to coordinate two signals which have different cycle lengths...

Then make the cycle lengths the same - duh.

[waves]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Then make the cycle lengths the same - duh.

Did you consider there might be other reasons the cycle lengths are the way they are? ie. coordination with other intersections? There are many factors that go into cycle length determination and quipping that they should just make the cycle lengths the same, is shortsighted and not useful to the discussion.