Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

In Canada (not 100% sure if this is common to all Westminister parliaments or not), it is considered a violation of parliamentary tradition/custom to use political props in Parliament (so things like holding up signs, infograpics, using objects during a debate, etc.)..

Feel thankful for not having the crazy French far-left in your Parliament then. They are the French equivalent of the the right-wing extremist wing of the Republican Party in the US, except on the other side of the political spectrum since France is a much more left-wing country (alas).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

For those who understand French, TVA and Le Journal de Montréal (same owner and sharing news resources) are doing an extended series on the state of French in Anglo-Canada.

The first two reports are online now. One is from Sudbury in Northern Ontario and the other from Southwestern Nova Scotia. Two regions I know well. Nothing I didn't know already or have factual objections to.

https://twitter.com/tvanouvelles/sta...82344525271142

How long do you estimate before French is history in those regions? 50 years seems like the upper bound to me...

[big T]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I doubt that economics (debatable in any event) will be the most important factor for the majority.

I mean, sure, in a vacuum it'd be ideal if the bigger themes of self-determination and social contract would prevail. But I think it will take a lot of effort from PSPP to keep the discourse from devolving into the lowly material. It's a reliable scarecrow, one that everybody knows is overplayed, yet still works.

I don't think the bleak discourse of shrinking middle class (that seems to prevail over in Angloverse) is really spilling over too much into Qc. Middle class is at an all time high here, especially for francophones. The scaremongering will be effective as ever.

Have the feds been annoying enough to overcome this? I'm not seeing it, so he'll have to work the crowd pretty hard I think. Manufacture conflicts, breed outrage, the works. Which will be interesting because PSPP is really cultivating this "above the fray" image, but I don't see him getting anywhere with a referendum without getting his hands dirty a bit.
Though he also seems smart, so maybe he can pull it off without looking too gross.

To your other point, he's being very upfront about making a referendum a firm goal of a first mandate. So assuming he stays the course, he seems to be going all or nothing on this one.

As an aside, it will be an interesting fight, since if PSPP pushes on it will force the CAQ to campaign explicitly against separation. We haven't had such a clear cut debate in recent elections, so it should be fun to watch.

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I would expect property prices and rents to reset hard in Quebec if PSPP wins the election and follows through with the 3rd referendum? Seems like a very real possibility at this point.

Key part bolded. By the time polls give the PQ a win, we should have a pretty good idea of the odds of them pulling the trigger based on the tone of the campaign that brought them to victory.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Another question is who was wearing one in the legislature prior to October 7? My guess is no one at all.

(I actually have one myself, believe or not. Though I wouldn't go out in public with that on in the current context.)

Vive la Palestine libre !

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by le calmar

The CAQ may have already hit the bottom and may eventually slowly start trending up again, but after 10 years in power they will not be able to really rejuvenate the party

I wonder why that is. The ruling party of Bavaria has been in power for more than 60 years already, and they are still quite popular.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by mousquet

Moreover, we don't really have demography on our side, unlike Hispanics.

Fertility rates in Latin America have plummeted. They are now lower than in France, and approaching Canadian levels (sometimes lower than even Canada). In 2023: Colombia 1.38 children per woman, Brazil 1.52, Chile 1.15, Argentina 1.35, Costa Rica 1.22. Even Mexico has dropped to the 1.70s.

Latin America will soon experience net population decline.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Feel thankful for not having the crazy French far-left in your Parliament then. They are the French equivalent of the the right-wing extremist wing of the Republican Party in the US, except on the other side of the political spectrum since France is a much more left-wing country (alas).

Are you sure?
The French far right is just about as loud. At least when it comes to Zemmour and his supporters.
Mrs Le Pen and hers play it cooler, more subtle, then they crush the entire left wing (from the remains of the Social Democrats to those far-left freaks you posted) on their own in polls.
I wouldn't trust them anyway, no matter how "politically correct" they try to appear, because they're backward Nationalists, which is bad for a country like ours.

France is actually leaning to the right wing more than it ever did before. Most the Social Democrats joined Macron's party (the Libs), then there's almost nothing left of them.

The French right wing is more Catholic than Protestant by tradition. Other than that, they're much the same as those in the US, at least in my view.
Besides, Mrs Le Pen is actually a support of Mr Trump in our country.

I don't make a difference between the extremists of the far left or the far right. They're basically the same harmful people thinking of themselves only, causing damage to common interest.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by big T

I mean, sure, in a vacuum it'd be ideal if the bigger themes of self-determination and social contract would prevail. But I think it will take a lot of effort from PSPP to keep the discourse from devolving into the lowly material. It's a reliable scarecrow, one that everybody knows is overplayed, yet still works.

I don't think the bleak discourse of shrinking middle class (that seems to prevail over in Angloverse) is really spilling over too much into Qc. Middle class is at an all time high here, especially for francophones. The scaremongering will be effective as ever.

Have the feds been annoying enough to overcome this? I'm not seeing it, so he'll have to work the crowd pretty hard I think. Manufacture conflicts, breed outrage, the works. Which will be interesting because PSPP is really cultivating this "above the fray" image, but I don't see him getting anywhere with a referendum without getting his hands dirty a bit.
Though he also seems smart, so maybe he can pull it off without looking too gross.

To your other point, he's being very upfront about making a referendum a firm goal of a first mandate. So assuming he stays the course, he seems to be going all or nothing on this one.

....

In this context, I think you mean "all or next time".

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Feel thankful for not having the crazy French far-left in your Parliament then. They are the French equivalent of the the right-wing extremist wing of the Republican Party in the US, except on the other side of the political spectrum since France is a much more left-wing country (alas).

Originally Posted by mousquet

Are you sure?
The French far right is just about as loud. At least when it comes to Zemmour and his supporters.
Mrs Le Pen and hers play it cooler, more subtle, then they crush the entire left wing (from the remains of the Social Democrats to those far-left freaks you posted) on their own in polls.
I wouldn't trust them anyway, no matter how "politically correct" they try to appear, because they're backward Nationalists, which is bad for a country like ours.

France is actually leaning to the right wing more than it ever did before. Most the Social Democrats joined Macron's party (the Libs), then there's almost nothing left of them.

The French right wing is more Catholic than Protestant by tradition. Other than that, they're much the same as those in the US, at least in my view.
Besides, Mrs Le Pen is actually a support of Mr Trump in our country.

I don't make a difference between the extremists of the far left or the far right. They're basically the same harmful people thinking of themselves only, causing damage to common interest.

You guys must be lost. Here's the appropriate forum for your off-topic posts:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=88

Or maybe:

https://www.reddit.com/r/france/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

How long do you estimate before French is history in those regions? 50 years seems like the upper bound to me...

It's hard to say. (Note that I am originally from these communities, and a majority of my extended family is still there.)

Their extinction has been predicted for over 5 decades and they are still there. I think they got a bit of a bump when some institutions were created for them but it looks like it may have only been a brief respite.

I think there will still be people speaking French in these places but it won't likely be as a first language that people live their lives in. It will be like Irish in Ireland, or French in Pondicherry.

The exception will be much of New Brunswick where I think French will decline but will still remain alive for quite a bit longer.

The series in the Journal continues today.

[niwell]

I could see French declining in Sudbury but it does seem to be going strong in other parts of Northern Ontario, though it's a pretty small number of people overall. There's a French language university in Hearst (Université de Hearst) with a campus in Timmins. Anecdotally from my time there doing some public consultations the majority of the population in Hearst and Kapuskasing spoke French in daily conversation, though most people seemed bilingual.

It was the only part of Northern Ontario we brought a translator with us (Francophone originally from Gatineau) and did a bilingual consultation. Interestingly most of the people in attendance wanted our English language materials as opposed to the French stuff we brought because they didn't trust the translation! Also was an different attitude compared to other places - we were there to relay news of higher property taxes which rarely goes over well. Most places were pretty hostile (someone near Thunder Bay made sure we noticed the large knife on his belt...) but the general attitude in Hearst was "of course taxes go up, we just want to know how much!". Probably the most pleasant consultation I was involved in.

Also interesting to see hotel workers on lunch break enjoying a glass of red wine, which is something you wouldn't see in most small Ontario towns!

[lio45]

Pretty sure I shared it already but in the summer of 2020 when I passed there, the girl manning the counter at the McD's in Hearst was a black francophone fresh immigrant from Subsaharan Africa.

So at least, if one wants to see that glass with a bit of liquid in it rather than mostly empty, some Franco-Ontarian areas get the lifeline of some immigration...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

Pretty sure I shared it already but in the summer of 2020 when I passed there, the girl manning the counter at the McD's in Hearst was a black francophone fresh immigrant from Subsaharan Africa.

So at least, if one wants to see that glass with a bit of liquid in it rather than mostly empty, some Franco-Ontarian areas get the lifeline of some immigration...

GofO has been quite open to increased francophone immigration. It's particularly evident in Ottawa.

[big T]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

In this context, I think you mean "all or next time".

Sure. I meant for this election. It’s a big departure from “let’s get elected first and figure out whether the time is right later”.

It definitely lends him an air of integrity, which plays superbly into his good guy image. But it still could turn off enough voters to lose him the match, even against a tired CAQ.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

GofO has been quite open to increased francophone immigration. It's particularly evident in Ottawa.

In parts of Ottawa not too frequented by Gatinois, often the only people you hear speaking French are black. Since most local French Canadians have anglicized.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

Also interesting to see hotel workers on lunch break enjoying a glass of red wine, which is something you wouldn't see in most small Ontario towns!

Come on now! They do this all across Ontario and in Rosthern SK and Clarenville NL too. There are no cultural differences between anglophone and francophone Canadians.

Seriously though I remember my shock at seeing construction guys with mud caked boots having red wine with their lunch, or ordering fougasses and quiche lorraine at my local French bakery.

Not everyone of course but it's more than zero like in the rest of North America.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In parts of Ottawa not too frequented by Gatinois, often the only people you hear speaking French are black. Since most local French Canadians have anglicized.

Yes, the franco-African population has been growing noticeably.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

You guys must be lost.

Or maybe you are...

Some call Québec "France in NA". In fact, I heard it from Quebecers themselves, because the French ain't arrogant enough to do so.
So French politics may sometimes be relevant in this thread. Some Quebecers on here frequently refer to it, though I wouldn't do too much of that.
I actually kinda agree with you on that one.

Anyway, no matter what they do or decide in Québec, would it be bullshitting sometimes, we will stand by their side. No matter what happens.
Take it as something for sure.

[Hecate]

Wouldn’t the “France” in North America be St Pierre et Miquelon

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Wouldn’t the “France” in North America be St Pierre et Miquelon

Is this supposed to be irony? Idk, ask the Québecois. They know better than I do.

As for myself, I never went to Canada. But I know some bits of the US, that some might call "real North America".
The most influential anyhow, whether it'd be good or bad.
Can you feel irony here?