Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service

[rocketphish]

Anybody know why Belfast Road is always referred to as an "Underpass" like Lees Avenue, instead of as an "Overpass" like St. Laurent Boulevard and Vanier Parkway?

[JM1]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Anybody know why Belfast Road is always referred to as an "Underpass" like Lees Avenue, instead of as an "Overpass" like St. Laurent Boulevard and Vanier Parkway?

Hmm... Don't know the answer. Clearly the LRT route will pass "under" Lees, "over" Riverside (not Vanier Parkway), and "under" St Laurent. The E-W route will also pass "under" Belfast, with additional connections to the maintenance centre that also pass "under" Belfast and Tremblay.

Between the maintenance centre and Tremblay, it will also need to either be tunnelled or else power lines and houses will need to be removed. What is going on there?

[1overcosc]

^ It will be a cut & cover tunnel under Belfast, done as part of that road's reconstruction.

[OttawaJosh]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Anybody know why Belfast Road is always referred to as an "Underpass" like Lees Avenue, instead of as an "Overpass" like St. Laurent Boulevard and Vanier Parkway?

I depends on who you ask. If you ask the MTO St. Laurent is an overpass and Riverside is an underpass but if you ask the city it is the opposite. You can tell who releases press briefings and plans based on what they call it. It's purely a political thing.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by OttawaJosh

I depends on who you ask. If you ask the MTO St. Laurent is an overpass and Riverside is an underpass but if you ask the city it is the opposite. You can tell who releases press briefings and plans based on what they call it. It's purely a political thing.

Funny, I'd have said the exact opposite for both.

I've always regarded the terms from the perspective of how the other RoW passes compared to the one you're on. So if you're on the Queensway, St. Laurent is an underpass (since it goes under) and Riverside is an overpass.

Either which way, though, there's definitely an inconsistency in the City's nomenclature:

The Queensway goes under Lees (described as an underpass), under Vanier/Riverside (described as an overpass), under Belfast (described as an underpass) and over St. Laurent (described as an overpass). The odd one out here is the Vanier Parkway.

[Richard Eade]

I agree with Dado here. The frame of reference is the 417 since that is the main object of the work. Thus, the Vanier Parkway structure should be called an overpass, since it passes over the 417, as Dado pointed out.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Anybody know why Belfast Road is always referred to as an "Underpass" like Lees Avenue, instead of as an "Overpass" like St. Laurent Boulevard and Vanier Parkway?

Definitions according to the MTO Structural Manual are:

Underpass: the major road goes under a lower category road (i.e. Maitland U/P)

Overpass: the major road goes over a lower category road (i.e. Kirkwood O/P)

Subway: the road goes under the railway (i.e. O-Train tracks at Hunt Club)

Overhead: the road goes over the railway (i.e. 417 over the O-Train tracks)

I have a handy little picture to illustrate further, but I can't seem to find how to attach a file (not a web link).

[OttawaJosh]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Definitions according to the MTO Structural Manual are:

Underpass: the major road goes under a lower category road (i.e. Maitland U/P)

Overpass: the major road goes over a lower category road (i.e. Kirkwood O/P)

Subway: the road goes under the railway (i.e. O-Train tracks at Hunt Club)

Overhead: the road goes over the railway (i.e. 417 over the O-Train tracks)

I have a handy little picture to illustrate further, but I can't seem to find how to attach a file (not a web link).

https://app06.ottawa.ca/calendar/ott...20Cyrville.htm

http://www.merx.com/English/Supplier...7ZvsYKgQ%3D%3D

When I worked on the Cyrville road bridge replacement a few year ago the city meetings called it an overpass in link 1 but the MTO called it an underpass like in link 2.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by OttawaJosh

https://app06.ottawa.ca/calendar/ott...20Cyrville.htm

http://www.merx.com/English/Supplier...7ZvsYKgQ%3D%3D

When I worked on the Cyrville road bridge replacement a few year ago the city meetings called it an overpass in link 1 but the MTO called it an underpass like in link 2.

This happens all the time. I tend to lean towards the MTO's definition since they are the custodians of the bridge design and inspection guidelines that all municipalities in Ontario are supposed to use.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Definitions according to the MTO Structural Manual are:

Underpass: the major road goes under a lower category road (i.e. Maitland U/P)

Overpass: the major road goes over a lower category road (i.e. Kirkwood O/P)

Subway: the road goes under the railway (i.e. O-Train tracks at Hunt Club)

Overhead: the road goes over the railway (i.e. 417 over the O-Train tracks)

I have a handy little picture to illustrate further, but I can't seem to find how to attach a file (not a web link).

Leave it to the MTO to come up with definitions no one else would use.

I'm used to the idea of a "subway" being a pedestrian crossing in the UK under a road or railway, but the idea of it being a road going under a railway doesn't really match anyone's notion of a subway.

And I'm pretty sure most people if asked what an 'overhead' is and told that it involves a railway would guess that it refers to the railway going over the road, not the road over the railway.

As to the under/overpasses, the problem with the MTO's definition is it requires one to make an assessment of the nature of both roads being crossed before one can arrive at the correct term. Sure, easy enough when one is a freeway and the other isn't, but what to do about something like the Airport Parkway - Hunt Club Rd crossing? Which is the higher category road? Does that change if the Airport Parkway is twinned? If it was, would both carriageways have to be on the same structure? At least mine works in both ways: the Airport Parkway is an overpass of Hunt Club and Hunt Club is an underpass of the Airport Parkway. Lord knows what the MTO themselves do in southern Ontario where freeways cross freeways, such as the ten-lane Hwy 407 crossing over the ten-lane Hwy 410.

But hey, rationale thought was never a strong point over at the MTO.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by Dado

Leave it to the MTO to come up with definitions no one else would use.

I'm used to the idea of a "subway" being a pedestrian crossing in the UK under a road or railway, but the idea of it being a road going under a railway doesn't really match anyone's notion of a subway.

And I'm pretty sure most people if asked what an 'overhead' is and told that it involves a railway would guess that it refers to the railway going over the road, not the road over the railway.

As to the under/overpasses, the problem with the MTO's definition is it requires one to make an assessment of the nature of both roads being crossed before one can arrive at the correct term. Sure, easy enough when one is a freeway and the other isn't, but what to do about something like the Airport Parkway - Hunt Club Rd crossing? Which is the higher category road? Does that change if the Airport Parkway is twinned? If it was, would both carriageways have to be on the same structure? At least mine works in both ways: the Airport Parkway is an overpass of Hunt Club and Hunt Club is an underpass of the Airport Parkway. Lord knows what the MTO themselves do in southern Ontario where freeways cross freeways, such as the ten-lane Hwy 407 crossing over the ten-lane Hwy 410.

But hey, rationale thought was never a strong point over at the MTO.

Simply trying to provide something helpful when somebody asked. At the end of day there all bridges so it doesn't really matter what their called.

[eltodesukane]

Ottawa Subway LRT map has a long way to go when you compare it to other cities.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2..._s_subway.html

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Ottawa Subway LRT map has a long way to go when you compare it to other cities.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2..._s_subway.html

To be fair, other cities with subways are much larger than us.

[gjhall]

Toronto's would also have a "long way to go" compared to any of these in this article.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Ottawa Subway LRT map has a long way to go when you compare it to other cities.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/2..._s_subway.html

Six of the cities are in the 20 to 30 million category... The smallest cities on the list are Berlin, Madrid and Barcelona, which are more or less the size of Montreal; you can see that their subway systems are visibly larger than the 2 in Canada. To be fair, one would need to compare Ottawa with leading cities in the 1 to 1.5 million category and include the transitway as well as the O-Train.

[DarkArconio]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Six of the cities are in the 20 to 30 million category... The smallest cities on the list are Berlin, Madrid and Barcelona, which are more or less the size of Montreal; you can see that their subway systems are visibly larger than the 2 in Canada. To be fair, one would need to compare Ottawa with leading cities in the 1 to 1.5 million category and include the transitway as well as the O-Train.

Additionally, comparisons to NA cities rather than EU and Asian cities make more sense, as the economics of public transit differ so much in those areas.

[J.OT13]

Excavation of Lyon Station starting soon. Now that'll be interesting!

April 10, 2014
Construction Summary

Central Segment

Tunnel

West Portal (Jawbreaker)
•The roadheader continues mining east approaching Lyon Street.
•Mining advances toward the transition* which will be followed a few weeks later by station cavern excavation.

Central Shaft (Chewrocka)
•Shotcreting and tunnel reinforcements continue as mining advances east.
•Hoist installation continues this week.

East Portal (Crocodile Rouge)

Tunneling works continue in two phases; the first phase involves investigative drilling followed by grouting to confirm stable tunnel face conditions. The second phase of tunneling works will start only after all new borehole data is fully analyzed.

Umbrella drilling at the east portal

For weekly updates on tunnel excavation progress please visit the Roadheader page.

East Segment

Maintenance and Storage Facility (MSF)
•Site activities such as equipment mobilization, grubbing, utilities work and snow clearing continue.
•Excavation for the MSF building foundation has begun.

MSF site activities including utilities work

Civic Works

Highway 417 Widening and Structure Rehabilitation

Roadworks
•Boring and sewer work progresses on the north side of the highway, near Hurdman Bridge.
•Drilling continues on the sound wall footings along the south side of the highway, from St. Laurent Blvd. to Vanier Pkwy.
•Construction on the new sound wall footings progresses along the north side of the highway at Robinson Avenue.

Signage
•Electric work for the three message signs is ongoing.

Structures

Widening, reconstruction and rehabilitation of various bridge structures is progressing as planned along the highway.

Hurdman Bridge
•Construction on the deck soffit is ongoing for the next weeks, in preparation of concrete pouring of the deck.
•Formwork** continues on the south side deck while rebar installation occurs on the north side.

Widening of abutments at Hurdman Bridge

St. Laurent Boulevard Overpass
•Widening and rehabilitation progresses with rebar installation on the deck, in addition to backfilling at the northeast and northwest abutments.
•Formwork continues for the deck overhang on the north and south sides of the bridge.

Formwork continues at St Laurent overpass

Vanier Parkway Overpass
•Work advances in the staging area, including setting up a scaffold (temporary support structure) to allow girder installation on the new structure.
•Work progresses on the south side of the overpass with concrete pouring on the west wing wall*** and on the waterproofing trim (coping).
•Forming and pouring of parapet wall**** and waterproofing trim continues on north side of the bridge.

Belfast Road Underpass – work progresses in preparation of the bridge replacement.
•Refacing work continues on the south side.
•Forming and pouring of the parapet walls**** takes place this week on the north and south side of the underpass.

Abutment work at Belfast Road underpass

Lees Avenue Underpass – work progresses in preparation of the rapid bridge replacement.
•Construction of the new bridge components are ongoing in the staging area; installation of girders will be completed this week while forming of the deck continues.
•Pouring and formwork of the second section continue on the north and south abutments.

Coventry Bridge
•Installation of rebar and pouring of caissons are ongoing for the next weeks at the north abutment to prepare for the installation of the pedestrian bridge on the piers.

Installation of caisson at Coventry Bridge

Notes:

* Transition refers to the area between the running tunnel and the station caverns.

** Formwork refers to a mold in which concrete is poured.

*** Wing walls refers to a wall at the abutment of a bridge, extending beyond the bridge to restrain soil to unnatural slopes.

**** Parapet wall refers to a protective barrier on the side of a bridge.

Stay on-track with us and follow our progress by visiting the sections related to each area of construction at the top of this webpage.

http://www.confederationline.ca/en#target3180

[1overcosc]

This needs confirmation, but apparently Kathleen Wynne just promised funding for Phase 2.

[gjhall]

$14bn for transportation infrastructure outside GHTA. Stage 2 is likely the largest proposal outside GHTA so it would make sense. Fingers crossed.

She also said funding for this plan would start rolling out this year...

[DarkArconio]

With $14 billion over the next 10 years for transit outside of the GTA and Hamilton, I suspect Ottawa will get its desired $1.2 billion for phase two. That may be all the public transit money we end up getting over the next ten years - but I do wonder where money for a truck tunnel would come from. Presumably a different non-transit source?

Also, of course, this is contingent on the Liberals staying in power. However, if one party promises such spending for the Ottawa region, the other parties will be hard pressed not to match the promise I hope.