[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[hfxtradesman]

Well got a little more info today. There could be a possibilty that this group might not be able to make the GOV. deadline, due to the gov issues on this project(there part of it). There is a team of lawyers working on these issues as we speak. It's hard to say if the deadline will be met. Lets hope they can!

[halifaxboyns]

Just because Alberta may have money - doesn't mean we'd get a quality development for a convention centre or stadium out here. Believe me; the city council will nickle and dime and then the planning commission will also cut things out too.

While you may still get a development superior to the Nova Centre; things would get cut. The grass isn't greener on this side either.

[fenwick16]

Having Grafton Street as a pedestrian street breaks the Nova Centre up, whereas the WTCC-II proposal for the Metro Centre/WTCC-I maintains that triple block as a superblock. So I can't criticize Rank Inc. for proposing a design which keeps Grafton Street as an open pedestrian route.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

Well got a little more info today. There could be a possibilty that this group might not be able to make the GOV. deadline, due to the gov issues on this project(there part of it). There is a team of lawyers working on these issues as we speak. It's hard to say if the deadline will be met. Lets hope they can!

I wonder if the leasing terms are a holdup (such as the length of the lease). I assume Rank Inc. would need a long term lease in order to get financing for the convention centre portion. I hope that a requirement for a performing arts centre theater hasn't been thrown in! That would certainly cause a delay.

[hfxtradesman]

Well here is the latest this week. Doesn't it show you how fast things can change when there is a gov. involved. ESPECIALLY OURS.
But anyway, the gov. wants higher concessions(for what i don't know),which makes this a higher risk for investors, which puts the price of the project up. The final price will go in on time but it might collapse in the end, cause the price will be too high: You can try and figure it out yourself

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

Well here is the latest this week. Doesn't it show you how fast things can change when there is a gov. involved. ESPECIALLY OURS.
But anyway, the gov. wants higher concessions(for what i don't know),which makes this a higher risk for investors, which puts the price of the project up. The final price will go in on time but it might collapse in the end, cause the price will be too high: You can try and figure it out yourself

I feel sorry for Rank Inc. for having to deal with the municipal and provincial governments. If it falls through, then the three levels of government should consider a Niagara Falls-style stand alone convention centre for $92 million. It actually has significantly more space than the Rank proposal for less money. Then the provincial government could own and operate it. I have to admit that I have expected this to fail even though I like the proposal. Once Premier MacDonald was gone, I felt that it was domed to fail.

I think if this comes in at over $100 million then there are serious questions as to whether it is the best proposal.

(source: http://www.fallsconventions.com/ )

Niagara Convention & Civic Centre is a new convention facility, scheduled to open in April 2011. The convention centre will be located in Niagara Falls, Ontario, some 500 yards from the Canadian Horseshoe Falls in the fashionable Fallsview Tourist District.

The 280,000 square foot LEED certified Niagara Convention & Civic Centre will be home to:

* an 80,000 square foot free-span Exhibition Hall
* a distinctive 17,000 square foot Ballroom
* 26,500 square feet of flexible Meeting & Breakout Space
* an intimate 1,000 seat Theatre with live performances
* State-of-the-Art Acoustic & Presentation Technologies
* Exciting Food and Beverage Offerings

Presently, the convention centre site is surrounded by 5,000 upscale hotel rooms within a one mile radius, along with numerous dining, retail and entertainment facilities, including the one billion dollar Fallsview Casino Resort.

[someone123]

It's really too bad that they changed their plans after the RFP for the convention centre came out. Their original proposal would have been far better, though this may still work out.

[JustinMacD]

It's almost like the government wants Halifax to fail.

[sdm]

Originally Posted by JustinMacD

It's almost like the government wants Halifax to fail.

Like i said previous, the RFP was based on a set parameter, and the Mayor has been talking about an additional part i.e. performing arts.

I am curious if this particular item might have something to do with the above stated issue?

[JustinMacD]

Originally Posted by sdm

Like i said previous, the RFP was based on a set parameter, and the Mayor has been talking about an additional part i.e. performing arts.

I am curious if this particular item might have something to do with the above stated issue?

It's the mayor being a coward. He's afraid to make anyone angry because it might cost him the next election. He won't pick a side.

Leaders don't worry about public opinion. They make the best decisions for their areas and let the results do the talking for them. Peter Kelly is a lame duck. Time for some fresh blood.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by sdm

Like i said previous, the RFP was based on a set parameter, and the Mayor has been talking about an additional part i.e. performing arts.

I am curious if this particular item might have something to do with the above stated issue?

If this is the case, then there will be a question of whether it was done to scuttle the deal. On the other hand, if a Performing Arts Centre could be included at a reasonable price then I would like to see it go ahead. There would likely be some cost savings in combining the two (perhaps less parking requirements, and shared land cost). July 19 is supposed to be the deadline for the financing from Rank Inc. - I am looking froward to seeing the result. However, if the price is too high then they should look at the Niagara Falls convention centre that is scheduled to open soon - 280,000 square feet including a 1000 seat theatre for $92 million.

[fenwick16]

Although this has nothing to do with the Nova Centre, if Halifax decides to build a performing arts centre in the future, one that is 1500 - 2000 seats similar in style to the Princess of Wales Theatre in Toronto would be a good size (there are a few in Toronto in the 2000 - 3000 seat range, but 3000 seems to be about the maximum capacity). Here is a link to the Princess of Wales Theatre - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_of_Wales_Theatre .

There are plans to add a section to the Rebecca Cohn Auditorium, if only they could expand the stage area and add about 500 seats then they could host large plays like the Sound of Music (one of the few plays that I have attended, and it was great - I stayed awake for the entire performance).

The Roy Thompson would look great in Halifax (although it is more of a concert hall):

(source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sookie/205283325/ )

[JustinMacD]

^^ A beautiful building that doesn't block a view!

They'd still reject it. Not enough red brick.

[someone123]

There was an old performing arts centre proposal for the seawall area - they produced some small renderings and there was a website up for a while, but there was never any funding.

I've never been to Roy Thompson but I've heard that it has horrible acoustics.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by someone123

There was an old performing arts centre proposal for the seawall area - they produced some small renderings and there was a website up for a while, but there was never any funding.

I've never been to Roy Thompson but I've heard that it has horrible acoustics.

I read that renovations were made to improve the acoustics at the Roy Thompson Hall. I have never been in it but have seen the exterior a few times. The exterior of the Roy Thompson Hall really stands out, however, the Princess of Wales Theatre is a simpler design (but looks great inside) and the acoustics of the Princess of Wales Theatre seemed good to me (but I am not a good judge of acoustics, other than I heard everything at the one play that I attended without any noticeable distortion).

PS: I went to one play at the Neptune Theatre in Halifax about 30(?) years ago and saw a play featuring Tony Randall. The Neptune Threatre is something that Haligonians can be proud of. Does anyone know how the Neptune Theatre stage compares to larger performing arts theatre stages? When I saw the Sound of Music several months ago at the Princess of Wales Theatre, I was very impressed by the stage setups that included a large artificial rock slab (it must have been at least 30 feet by 20 feet) that several actors could stand on all at once and it actually tilted (apparently by hydraulic cylinders).

[fenwick16]

There was a great column in the Chronicle Herald today by Dan Leger. I think that it is very encouraging to see columnists like Dan Leger state things the way that they really are. This column doesn't just address the issue of the Nova Centre proposal but development in the HRM in general.

For people wanting to post a comment on the article - here is the link http://thechronicleherald.ca/Columnists/1191622.html

Progress versus the dictatorship of the viewplane few

By DAN LEGER
Mon. Jul 12 - 4:53 AM

Nova Scotians love to brag that a charming red stone building on Hollis Street is the "birthplace of responsible government in North America." Indeed, Province House is a historical gem, even if the political antics within are often poorly polished.

There isn’t a single Nova Scotian who would support demolishing that building. We’d be disgusted if it fell into disrepair. Because of what Province House symbolizes, that won’t happen.

The same goes for thousands of other old buildings in Nova Scotia that were built to last and blessed with generations of caring owners. The historic buildings in Halifax and those across the province remind us of our past and give substance to our sense of identity.

But as profound as our attachment is to history and the past, we are in danger of allowing it to cloud our prospects for the future. That’s exactly what’s going on just two blocks up the hill from Province House.

The proposal for a new convention centre-hotel complex on the former Halifax Herald property has become the focus of a heated battle cast as "heritage versus development." But the debate is more than that, with the argument spilling over into our very sense of what democracy means in this place that has nurtured it for more than 250 years.

Beyond heritage versus progress, the convention centre argument pits the representatives of entire communities against a band of unelected, unaccountable activists determined to impose their vision on the capital city.

The arguments are far too familiar. Convention centre advocates say it will create jobs, stimulate business and spin off revenues to the local economy and the provincial treasury. Experts differ on the dimensions of those spin-offs, but convention centres have been economic drivers in most cities that have built them.

For its proponents, the proposal symbolizes a side of the provincial character that looks past the past and is prepared to take risks for a better future. After all, the lovely old buildings we all cherish now were built by daring entrepreneurs of the day, people with a dynamic vision for their city and province.

But that means nothing to the anti-progress caucus which our dithering political leadership has allowed to gain influence far beyond its numbers. Its members are more concerned about the height of buildings than what they mean for the economic prospects of their fellow citizens.

And because the plan calls for public financing of the convention centre portion, some strange alliances have sprung up. People who oppose spending on anything they deem not vital to basic operations of government have joined forces with the advocates for big government: public-service unions who don’t want private capital to benefit from public funds.

But it’s not really about money. At its root, the self-appointed Coalition to Save the View is all about height. It is dominated by the heritage-at-any-cost folks who want Halifax preserved in aspic, never to change again. Theirs is a vision of a low-rise city with no modern architecture, or at least none that doesn’t fit their esthetic. They insist the "viewplanes" from Citadel Hill have to be protected.

And that’s where we cross from healthy debate into farce. What are these viewplanes and for whom are we protecting them? For the summertime tourists who are just here for a day? For the minuscule minority of locals who ever bother to go sightseeing from the Citadel?

As an exasperated friend remarked: "If you want to see a fort, visit the Citadel. If you want to see a harbour, walk down and see the harbour."

The Coalition to Save the View grandiosely claims to represent Nova Scotians. It doesn’t. Only 643 people have signed its anti-convention centre petition.

A vacillating sense of inferiority and defeatism has already cost Halifax the Commonwealth Games and the opportunities they offered. The domineering band of single-issue activists has slowed things enough while Halifax gets more decrepit with every delay.

It’s time for the city, and for the Dexter government, to show some leadership and get things moving again in our great and historic capital.

( dleger@herald.ca)

Dan Leger is director of news content for The Chronicle Herald. The views expressed here are his own.

[JustinMacD]

"As an exasperated friend remarked: "If you want to see a fort, visit the Citadel. If you want to see a harbour, walk down and see the harbour.""

lol

That's a great article. Hopefully this catches on and it exposes the Heritage Trust for the fraud that it really is.

Thanks for posting.

[halifaxboyns]

It's a good start.
Now if we could get some of the viewplanes (which make no sense) removed like say Brightwood (for Downtown Dartmouth) and one of the ones for the mouth of the harbour (or at least change it to increase height), I'd be really happy.

[Jstaleness]

I wonder if Dan views this forum? If he does I invite him to become a member.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

There was a great column in the Chronicle Herald today by Dan Leger. I think that it is very encouraging to see columnists like Dan Leger state things the way that they really are. This column doesn't just address the issue of the Nova Centre proposal but development in the HRM in general.

For people wanting to post a comment on the article - here is the link http://thechronicleherald.ca/Columnists/1191622.html

After reading that article I almost cried.

Good writing Dan, you encapsulated the issue well. I wish there was more information in tangible terms about how much it has ended up costing our city. Just the private legal costs alone must be rediculous.

I love the part where he states "a band of unelected, unaccountable activists ". Which is true, but they also are buddies with our elected officials. Its sort of like a Star Wars prequel, its so sad.

I think all the developers that have had their projects be appealed and then ultimately approved should get together and run the legal costs associated with the obstructionists...

And then send them a bill.