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  #1141  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2023, 2:20 AM
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Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kzt79 View Post
And yes, the idea of “giving money to poor people for housing” is stupid and short sighted, if well meaning. It’s like how subsidized student loans ultimately served only to inflate the cost of education while saddling students with hugely increased debt. Any meaningful solution will come down to limiting demand and/or increasing supply. (Giving people money for housing would simply increase demand and therefore drive prices higher.)
That's completely untrue. Any policy that involves the government spending money to intervene in the economy has an inflationary effect so that can't be avoided. But it isn't a significant effect for programs that are limited in scope to helping one subgroup of the population with one thing. And spending related to helping people access basic needs like housing avoids government spending in other areas by reducing social problems that would otherwise result. The important thing is whether it addresses the problem of the specific cohort you're trying to help.

Many or even most of the policies tools governments have to address housing affordability involve government spending. The only exceptions are perhaps things like loosening certain restrictions on development, but that doesn't tend to be enough on its own. And studies have been quite clear that the most effective way to help people whose problems are caused by a lack of money is to - not surprisingly - give them money. It isn't hard to find such studies and it's even the central realization behind the GiveDirectly organization. They explain this very well and also have a link to numerous studies on their home page.

There's no substance behind the "that's stupid" knee-jerk reactions. It's pure bias and Malthusian "conventional thinking". Whether or not it turns out to be the most effective option only time can tell, but the rationale behind it is completely sound (in terms of the actual evidence).
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  #1142  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2023, 2:58 AM
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It depends on elasticity of supply. If you inject more dollars and there's no new supply added the price rises. I think this is mostly we are with housing unless the government improves efficiencies or skilled labour availability. The inelasticity is in large part created by government policy choices.

Unfortunately the subgroup of people who can't afford market-rate housing is growing quickly and more and more includes average taxpayers earning average wages. A tax and spend government-led housing policy for that group won't be very helpful.
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  #1143  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2023, 3:35 AM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
It depends on elasticity of supply. If you inject more dollars and there's no new supply added the price rises. I think this is mostly we are with housing unless the government improves efficiencies or skilled labour availability. The inelasticity is in large part created by government policy choices.

Unfortunately the subgroup of people who can't afford market-rate housing is growing quickly and more and more includes average taxpayers earning average wages. A tax and spend government-led housing policy for that group won't be very helpful.
Well it really depends on how many people we're talking about. "Growing" doesn't tell us much about that.
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  #1144  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2023, 12:35 PM
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Ah, the "no debatable assertions" fella gets into a debate. Ho ho ho.
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  #1145  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2023, 12:49 PM
kzt79 kzt79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
That's completely untrue. Any policy that involves the government spending money to intervene in the economy has an inflationary effect so that can't be avoided. But it isn't a significant effect for programs that are limited in scope to helping one subgroup of the population with one thing. And spending related to helping people access basic needs like housing avoids government spending in other areas by reducing social problems that would otherwise result. The important thing is whether it addresses the problem of the specific cohort you're trying to help.

Many or even most of the policies tools governments have to address housing affordability involve government spending. The only exceptions are perhaps things like loosening certain restrictions on development, but that doesn't tend to be enough on its own. And studies have been quite clear that the most effective way to help people whose problems are caused by a lack of money is to - not surprisingly - give them money. It isn't hard to find such studies and it's even the central realization behind the GiveDirectly organization. They explain this very well and also have a link to numerous studies on their home page.

There's no substance behind the "that's stupid" knee-jerk reactions. It's pure bias and Malthusian "conventional thinking". Whether or not it turns out to be the most effective option only time can tell, but the rationale behind it is completely sound (in terms of the actual evidence).
In the absence of any other change, handing people money to purchase housing (regardless of of which people or the detailed mechanics of how this is accomplished) will serve to elevate prices and exacerbate the crisis. The rationale behind the knee jerk impulse to "help" people is flawed.

I agree there is a crisis and action should be taken - yesterday. The government has huge power to alleviate (or worsen) things by implementing policies to decrease demand and/or increase supply.
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  #1146  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2023, 12:35 AM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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It would be interesting if a hybrid of new and old proposals could be put forward!
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  #1147  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2024, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HarbingerDe View Post
Every time I think council is starting to wake up to the reality of the housing crisis and what needs to be done to prevent it further deteriorating, they pull some nonsense like this...

Do they want two more decades of proposals and rejections? It's not like we desperately need housing or anything... They've already cut 20 stories off of the two towers originally proposed for this site (representing a loss of about 300 residential units).

In what world is the pedway a downside? I suspect their concern is wind, because for some reason whenever the council doesn't like a development they suddenly become experts in computational fluid dynamics and turbulent flow solutions.
The objective of city council seems, at least in part, to be obstruct, delay or otherwise impede construction as much as possible - especially of badly needed high density. That's pretty much all they did for almost 20 years. Things have improved somewhat in recent years (although nowhere near adequate to keep up with our growing population), but obviously the old reflexes remain strong!
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  #1148  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2024, 9:00 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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The old office building on the site is officially a pile of rubble!
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  #1149  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2024, 12:46 AM
Saul Goode Saul Goode is offline
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Originally Posted by IanWatson View Post
The old office building on the site is officially a pile of rubble!
A more salubrious state for it, far less offensive than in its built form. That was one butt-uuuuugly building.

Reminds me of Prince (as he then was) Charles in the 80s, critiquing modern London architecture: 'You have to give this much to the Luftwaffe. When it knocked down our buildings, it didn't replace them with anything more offensive than rubble. We did that."

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine I'd ever in my lifetime quote Chuck (I'm not a fan, to put it mildly) but that's a great turn of phrase, regardless of whether you agree with it.

Last edited by Saul Goode; Feb 8, 2024 at 10:41 AM.
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  #1150  
Old Posted Feb 8, 2024, 4:37 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Goode View Post
A more salubrious state for it, far less offensive than in its built form. That was one butt-uuuuugly building.

Reminds me of Prince (as he then was) Charles in the 80s, critiquing modern London architecture: 'You have to give this much to the Luftwaffe. When it knocked down our buildings, it didn't replace them with anything more offensive than rubble. We did that."

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever imagine I'd ever in my lifetime quote Chuck (I'm not a fan, to put it mildly) but that's a great turn of phrase, even if you disagree with it.
Yep. Agreed. Just removing that building is already an improvement.

And... great quote!
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  #1151  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2024, 4:19 PM
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An the epic approval journey continues ...

DRC refused the variances in December. United Gulf has appealed the decision and it will now go to Regional Council next week.

Skye Halifax Appeal Report

I've never noticed the digital clock feature on Granville Street before. Is this new?
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  #1152  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2024, 7:32 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
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Originally Posted by Dmajackson View Post
An the epic approval journey continues ...

DRC refused the variances in December. United Gulf has appealed the decision and it will now go to Regional Council next week.

Skye Halifax Appeal Report

I've never noticed the digital clock feature on Granville Street before. Is this new?
It is new from the last proposal. Honestly I think it looks ridiculous--I hope overrides the DRC and says, "yes, build it, but nix the clock."
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  #1153  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2024, 7:59 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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I miss the offset balconies that gave the south tower a stack of paper look. I think it added visual interest to the skyline.

As for the clock, a giant 1980s wristwatch looking timepiece is a bit odd, but I don't hate it. It looks like the "pixels" possibly do or could extend the width of the facade. I'd definitely be into it if the whole panel across was active, RGB, and displayed gradient patterns, themed colors, and other interesting features along with the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmajackson View Post
An the epic approval journey continues ...

DRC refused the variances in December. United Gulf has appealed the decision and it will now go to Regional Council next week.

Skye Halifax Appeal Report

I've never noticed the digital clock feature on Granville Street before. Is this new?
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  #1154  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2024, 5:50 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Silly me... I think the retro digital clock thing is kind of cool.
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  #1155  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2024, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Silly me... I think the retro digital clock thing is kind of cool.
I like it!
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  #1156  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2024, 1:46 PM
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The things that people making decisions (or commenting on them) worry about when t comes to 40 floors worth of new development is nuts. If they want to put in a clock, let them.
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  #1157  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2024, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
The things that people making decisions (or commenting on them) worry about when t comes to 40 floors worth of new development is nuts. If they want to put in a clock, let them.
It seems to me that these design considerations are very minor compared to having a semi-reasonable building on this lot instead of an empty lot, and the debates have gone of for so long that if United Gulf had built something objectionable it would probably be getting an update now anyway.
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  #1158  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2024, 6:18 PM
kzt79 kzt79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
It seems to me that these design considerations are very minor compared to having a semi-reasonable building on this lot instead of an empty lot, and the debates have gone of for so long that if United Gulf had built something objectionable it would probably be getting an update now anyway.
Building anything at all on this site would seem almost miraculous at this point.
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  #1159  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2024, 6:34 PM
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The clock being discussed:



Image taken from the Appeal – DRC Decision - SPA-2023-01543 PDF.
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  #1160  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2024, 12:08 AM
AnotherNorthender AnotherNorthender is offline
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Council approved the variances this evening
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