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  #1201  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2012, 4:46 PM
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Rimouski from yesterday evening
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  #1202  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2012, 11:01 PM
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Rimouski rocks!
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  #1203  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2012, 11:03 PM
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It looks beautiful. I love the name as well.
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  #1204  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2012, 11:14 PM
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  #1205  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2012, 4:42 PM
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Rimouski rocks!
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It looks beautiful. I love the name as well.
Im glad you guys liked it!
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  #1206  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2012, 7:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Hybrid247 View Post
It would be awesome to have a city of around 1 million in Atlantic Canada, but I can't help but wonder if Halifax would be much bigger than it is today if it weren't for the big explosion.
That's a good question so let's do the math.

When the Halifax explosion occurred in 1917 it killed about 2000 people. At that time Halifax's population was about 90,000 people which means it erased a little over 2% of the population which means today those people would add about 8000 people to Halifax's current population of 390,000 people which we can probably agree, isn't a significant difference.
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  #1207  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2012, 9:10 AM
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But the impact that it would have had on the economy and local mindset may have been much greater than the actual number of people killed. When a community suffers a major setback. whether it be from a natural/unnatural disaster, a war, the collapse of an industry, etc. a lot of money, labour, thought/expertise is diverted into recovering what was already there rather than moving forward. The region may have lost things that would have enticed people from outside the area to move in or stopped existing residents from moving away.

Of course, these kinds of collateral effects are very hard to measure since they can all potentially be caused (partly or completely) by other factors so it's nearly impossible to tie them directly to the set back event.
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  #1208  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2012, 1:54 PM
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Interesting thought, the Halifax city counsel had actually been planning a subway system, this was then scrapped due to the explosion.
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  #1209  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2012, 6:42 PM
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Yeah, that type of calculation captures only a small part of the overall cost. There was a lot of property damage and some of the businesses destroyed were not rebuilt. There were also a lot of injured and disabled people. The number of blinded people was something like 1,000-2,000 for example. The total impact on the city's economy was probably pretty large.

9/11 killed something like 0.02% of New York's population.
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  #1210  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2012, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil McAvity View Post
That's a good question so let's do the math.

When the Halifax explosion occurred in 1917 it killed about 2000 people. At that time Halifax's population was about 90,000 people which means it erased a little over 2% of the population which means today those people would add about 8000 people to Halifax's current population of 390,000 people which we can probably agree, isn't a significant difference.

If it weren't for confederation and the Upper Canada policy Halifax would be much bigger. All of the financial institutions and major industries were moved to the center of the country. The Maritime provinces are the only provinces that resemble US States. When we stopped trading with New York and Boston things went downhill. Oh well; When Quebec eventually seperates, we will join New England once again. The Maritime provinces have nothing in common with the rest of Canada. We have far more in common with New England.
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  #1211  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2012, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SJTOKO View Post
If it weren't for confederation and the Upper Canada policy Halifax would be much bigger. All of the financial institutions and major industries were moved to the center of the country. The Maritime provinces are the only provinces that resemble US States. When we stopped trading with New York and Boston things went downhill. Oh well; When Quebec eventually seperates, we will join New England once again. The Maritime provinces have nothing in common with the rest of Canada. We have far more in common with New England.
?...

Being from the Maritimes, I must say that institutions and industries didn't "move" to the center of the country; they were never developed in the Maritimes to begin with.

This is an issue of severe finiteness of land and resources, concurrent with a dependency on land-based travels between the Maritimer cities.

Central Canadian cities have always been connected along the St. Lawrence. This combined with a massive backdrop of land, freshwater, and resources made Central Canada grow much more quickly than the Maritimes, even though colonisation began first on the Atlantic coast.

And your opinion of the Maritime provinces being the only provinces that resemble U.S. states is total bull, in my opinion. Just like the American Atlantic Seaboard, Central Canadian cities, as I've mentioned, are connected via water passage.

America was birthed by an ocean; Canada was birthed by a river.
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  #1212  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2012, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RyeJay View Post
?...

Being from the Maritimes, I must say that institutions and industries didn't "move" to the center of the country; they were never developed in the Maritimes to begin with.

This is an issue of severe finiteness of land and resources, concurrent with a dependency on land-based travels between the Maritimer cities.

Central Canadian cities have always been connected along the St. Lawrence. This combined with a massive backdrop of land, freshwater, and resources made Central Canada grow much more quickly than the Maritimes, even though colonisation began first on the Atlantic coast.

And your opinion of the Maritime provinces being the only provinces that resemble U.S. states is total bull, in my opinion. Just like the American Atlantic Seaboard, Central Canadian cities, as I've mentioned, are connected via water passage.

America was birthed by an ocean; Canada was birthed by a river.
Ridiculous tripe.

The University of New Brunswick is the oldest in Canada. When I walk around my hometown (Saint John) all I see is Canadian firsts. First Police Force, First Law school, First YMCA, first bank. It's the oldest incorporated Canadian city and the third oldest overall, St. John's being the oldest. Anyway, here's an essay for you to read. Perhaps you might learn something.

A sketch of Maritime economic history
by Fred McMahon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

06/1999
The Halifax Chronicle Herald


A century ago, the Maritime Provinces - not Ontario and Quebec - were the industrial heartland of Canada, the young nation's economic dynamo.

Many historians claim Confederation's trade barriers devastated the Maritime economy, and there's some truth in that. Yet, the Maritimes' great prosperity and worldwide trading links were almost certainly destined for ruin anyway, as was Halifax's status as a world-class trading centre.

The Maritime economy late in the last century was not a one dimensional affair, built on cheap lumber and a crude means of shipbuilding, as many still think. Nor was it hobbled by a conservative business clique unable to adjust to changes in shipbuilding materials and techniques.

Instead, Maritime business leaders had created broad-based economic dynamo. The region was home to little more than a sixth of Canada's population, but it boasted a quarter of the nation's manufacturing enterprises, including both of Canada's steel mills, six of 12 rolling mills, eight of 23 cotton mills, three of five sugar refineries, two of seven rope factors, and one of three glass works.


Halifax, a little more than a century after its founding, had been transformed from an isolated military garrison into one of the most dynamic trading centres in North America. Where ever traders gather, they need a sophisticated financial infrastructure - letters of credit, money changing, financing, deposit taking and so on.
All this could be done with ease in Halifax's busy downtown. By the turn of the century Halifax was home to more than a dozen banks, including the forerunners of two of Canada's "big-five" financial institutions, the Bank of Nova Scotia and the Royal Bank. Yet, within a generation or two, the Maritimes Provinces would be on their way to economic ruin.

The region's economy had a hairline fracture running through it. Everything depended on trade. The relative scarcity of agricultural land deprived the Maritimes of the hinterland needed for a strong domestic market. Maritime industrial activity vastly exceeded the size of its population, and could only be maintained through trade. That was a fatal flaw.

John A. Macdonald's national policy threw up trade barriers around Canada. The idea was to liberate the new nation from U.S. economic dominance and create a domestic industrial base. The Maritimes already had an industrial base. All the national policy did was cut the region off from rich foreign markets, particularly New England. That was probably inevitable anyway.

U. S. protectionism would almost certainly have done the same thing in the end, not that it mattered. Transportation costs were such that domestic suppliers in New England and other large external markets would have eventually replaced most Maritime goods.



That's more or less what happened with Maritime-Central Canadian trade. For the Maritimes, the National Policy turned short-term gain into long-term pain. In the beginning, Canada's new trade barriers created a Maritime economic boom. Maritime manufacturers suddenly had the Central Canadian market to themselves. Competition from U.S. manufacturers withered behind trade barriers. The Maritimes, as Canada's industrial heartland, flourished.

That was short-lived. Industry may have been located in the Maritimes, but the population base was a thousand miles away in Central Canada. That made no sense in an age when goods were heavier than today and transportation costs considerably higher.

Central Canadian interests began to buy out Maritime businesses. The businesses weren't immediately shut down, but investment was stifled. New plants were built where the market was concentrated - Central Canada.

U.S. businesses also wanted in on the Canadian market. Because of tariff barriers, they needed to build branch plants, and it made no sense to build them in the isolated Maritimes.

If all this wasn't bad enough, disaster hit in the 1920s. In four years, rail rates between the Maritimes and Central Canada more than doubled, and the Maritimes lost its one remaining large market.

The distinguished Maritime historian Ernest Forbes captured the impact best. "It was almost as though Maritime manufacturers had suddenly been pushed another 1,000 miles out to sea." With this, the Great Depression arrived a decade early in the Maritime Provinces.

The federal government was no help at all. The Maritimes did not have the financial resources to build the infrastructure required for the emerging economy, roads for automobiles and trucks. Ottawa's offer to cost-share infrastructure programs helped the rich provinces which could afford their share of the bill, but not the poorer provinces.

Sadly Maritime policy-makers have seldom realized the importance of infrastructure. When federal transfers to the region increased dramatically in the early 1970s and rich regional development programs were in their heyday, spending on infrastructure actually declined though economic research shows infrastructure spending to be more effective than anything else in creating economic growth.

Other problems, which still bedevil Maritime policy making, emerged in the early part of this century. Most damaging was the view of the economy as a negative sum game. Every existing job had to be protected because a job lost was a job lost forever. No new economic activity would ever create other jobs - a view that made sense in the 1920s after decades of regional decline.

Maritime policy-makers fought to keep every existing job. In 1924, subsidies began for the Cape Breton coal mines. Earlier, in 1908, legislation was passed to limit new technology in the Nova Scotia fisheries. The limits became progressively more restrictive. By 1939, only three mechanized trawlers operated in Nova Scotia, down from 10 a dozen years earlier.

Local interests built walls of their own. In the late 1920s, U.S. businesses had the exciting idea of turning Nova Scotia into the "Fish Pier of America," using new freezer technology and steam trawlers. A coalition of inshore fishermen, schooner owners and fish merchants stymied the plan.

Now, 250 years after Halifax was founded, the Maritimes confront a world in many ways similar to the pre-Confederation era. Trade barriers have fallen. Old markets are open again, and new markets are everywhere. Transportation costs have never been lower.

This old garrison town, and all of Nova Scotia and Atlantic Canada, face historic opportunities, provided we can leave behind the failed, patronage-ridden, projectionist policies of the past decades and develop a competitive, outward-looking economic base and attitude - as the region had in the 19th century - capable of capitalizing on this new world of economic potential
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  #1213  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2012, 1:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SJTOKO View Post
Ridiculous tripe.

The University of New Brunswick is the oldest in Canada. When I walk around my hometown (Saint John) all I see is Canadian firsts. First Police Force, First Law school, First YMCA, first bank. It's the oldest incorporated Canadian city and the third oldest overall, St. John's being the oldest. Anyway, here's an essay for you to read. Perhaps you might learn something.
maybe there was some kind of educational program (legal education was done by apprenticeship before law schools), but McGill (1848) was the first law school
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  #1214  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2012, 2:10 AM
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maybe there was some kind of educational program (legal education was done by apprenticeship before law schools), but McGill (1848) was the first law school
And Montreal had the first YMCA. From YMCA canada's website:

Quote:
1851 - The first YMCA in North America started in Montreal. It was revolutionary for an organization outside of the church to offer religious discussions and activities. The YMCA goal was to put religious teachings into practice and to lead by example.
http://www.ymca.ca/en/who-we-are/his...ilestones.aspx

And the bank of Montreal, 1817, is the first Bank founded in canada.

sorry, SJTOKO, but your bombastic homerism is rather comical
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  #1215  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2012, 2:11 AM
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Canadian firsts (Saint John)

Canada's oldest incorporated city, founded by the United Empire Loyalist, 1783.
Home of Moosehead Breweries.
Home of the late industrialist K.C.Irving, self made billionaire and one of the riches men in the world.
Location of the 1985 movie, Children of a Lesser God.
The birthplace of Walter Pidgeon and Donald Sutherland and childhood home of Louis Mayer.
Home of the Canadian Hockey Association's Atlantic Centre of Excellence.
Home of Canada's largest oil refinery.
Home of the second largest bilingual workforce in New Brunswick.
Ranked as Canada's Premier City for Business by the Globe and Mail's Report on Business Magazine and The Best Business City in Atlantic Canada by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business for its pro-business attitude.

DUMP BOX FOR TRUCK
INVENTOR: Robert T. Mawhinney
Saint John, New Brunswick
(Patent No. CA 203,004, August 17, 1920)

This invention was instrumental in the development of our present trucking industry. To create this first dump truck, a mast was mounted between the cab of the vehicle and the dump box. A cable was threaded over a sheave at the top of the mast and was connected to a winch at the base of the mast and to the lower front end of the dump box. The dump box was pivoted at the rear end of the truck frame. A simple crank handle was used to operate the winch, which raised the front end of the dump box, dumped the load, then lowered the box. A hydraulic system has since replaced the crank handle, but the basic, concept has remained unchanged.

Canada's first incorporated city, created by Royal Charter - 1785.
First Common-Law market in Canada, created by Royal Charter - 1785.
First biscuit factory, established in 1801
Canada's first fire insurance company - Munso Jarvis, established 1801
Canada's first Chartered bank - 1830 (Bank of New Brunswick).
First penny newspaper in the Empire,"Saint John News", established in 1838 (tri-weekly) by George E Fenety.
First compound marine engine developed by Benjamin Tibbets - 1842. The "Reindeer" was the first vessel to be propelled by a compound steam engine, i.e., one in which high and low pressure steam were combined. Tibbets was granted $100 for his work by the Legislature of the Province of New Brunswick.
Canada's first Y.M.C.A. established in 1870 by Mrs. Agnes A. Blizzard, in a house on Germain Street.
The "Long reacher" skate invented by James Welply advanced the 19th century speed skating tradition - mid 1850's.
Canada's first industrial exhibition - 1851. (This is the same year as the Great Exhibition at the Crystal Palace in London, organized by Prince Albert).
First public museum in Canada opened in 1842. Known today as the New Brunswick Museum, it was originally called the Gesner Museum, after its founder Abraham Gesner, a Nova Scotia-born doctor credited with the invention of kerosene.
First police union in the world was formed in Saint John in 1919.
1927, Wallace Turnbull invented the first variable-pitch aeroplane propeller and went on to pioneer developments in aeronautics at his home in nearby Rothesay. The Saint John Airport is named in his honour. He also designed boats and invented the first wind tunnel.
First female Canadian Golf Champion, Miss Mabel Thompson - 1902.
First female commercial air pilot in Canada - Mrs. Tony Shelfoon (nee Daphne Peterson).
First Miss Canada Mrs. Harold Drummie (nee Winnie Blair) - 1923.
First postage stamp album in the world invented by Robert Reid - 1853. The original is now at the Collector's Club in New York City.
First public playground in Canada which was started by Miss Mabel Peters. This playground is known as the Allison Ground Playground in Rockwood Court.
First Minister of Health of the British Empire, Hon. W.F.Roberts, M.D.
First monitor top railroad cars in the world invented by James Ferguson. The original model is in the New Brunswick Museum in Saint John.
First Knights of Pythias in British Empire.
Miss Katie Broad, first lady to get a diploma in agriculture - 1915.
First Board of Fire Insurance Underwriters in Canada 1865.
First overshoes in Canada brought to the country by Francis and Vaughn.
First orchestra to accompany a silent moving picture on the North American continent was by Walter Golding in the old nickel theater, May 1907.
First wire nails in Canada were manufactured by Penders Ltd. 1891.
First soda crackers in Canada by T. Rankine amp; Sons, Church Street 1823.
First Boy Scout Apple Day in the world organized by Eli Boyaner on January 30, 1931.
Mrs. R. J. Hooper was the first woman to sit as a member on the Board of Health in the British Empire.
First automobile fire harness invented by Hiram Webb.
Saint John Mallard House - first Legislature of the Province convened on January 3, 1786. In the largest room of the Mallard House the first dramatic performance in New Brunswick was held on March 28, 1789. The plays were "The Busy Body" and "Who's The Dupe?"
First steamboat in the province built at Portland Point and launched in May 1816, was named General Smyth.
First name for the city was Carleton (which is now termed West Saint John).

VORTEX-FLUSHING TOILET BOWL
INVENTOR: Thomas McAvity Stewart
Saint John, New Brunswick
(Patent No. CA 108,017, October 15, 1907)

The patent for this invention describes a series of oblique openings in the rim of a toilet bowl to form a vortex during flushing, thus providing a selfcleansing effect. Today, most makes of toilet bowls have this feature or otherwise generate this same vortex effect.

Canada's first vocational school was erected on Douglas Avenue.
Saint John's first social club was on the corner of King Street and Market Square and known as the "Exchange Coffee House" It was owned by William George Cody.
The Admiral Beatty was Saint John's first large and modern hotel.
The first common clerk in Saint John was Bartholomew Crandall (1785-1790).
The first recorder appointed in Saint John was Ward Chipman (1785-1800).
The first Chamberlain in Saint John was George Leonard (1785-1787).
The first issue of Saint John's "The New Brunswick Magazine" July 1898.
Saint John's first large and modern post office was completed 1915.
First burial grounds. Graves were marked with wooden head boards near King's Square 1785.
Oldest head stone in Saint John - Conrad T. Hendricks - 1784.
First grave digger was Edward Burr.
Saint John's first fort built by a white man was Fort LaTour (Fort Sainte Marie).
First church built by Presbyterians - on a grant of land on the north side of Queen Street (numbers 1-10 of today) from the government of Nova Scotia June 29, 1784.
First Mayor of Saint John was the Hon. G. Ludlow, appointed April 4, 1784.
First episcopal church, old Trinity, began in 1788 - corner stone was laid by Rev. Dr. Inglis, first Anglican Bishop in North America. The church was opened for use on Christmas Day 1791.
First Roman Catholic services in the city were held in City Hall, Market Square in 1813. St. Malachi's chapel opened in 1815.
First member of the Royal Family to visit Saint John was the Duke of Kent, father of Queen Victoria - June 16,1794.
First grist mill in Saint John built soon after the Loyalists arrived in 1784.
First Grammar School in Saint John - 1805. This Grammar School was later called Saint John High School.
First National School in Saint John - 1818.
First Girls School in Saint John - 1819.
First businesswoman in Saint John was Ann Mott. She printed the Gazette and New Brunswick Advertiser, January 11, 1815.
Portland Point was the first French settlement in New Brunswick.
First pre-Loyalist English-speaking people settled in Saint John in 1762 with Simonds, Hazen & White (fur traders).
Saint John's first major railway was the European and North American Railway. Construction began in 1853 and was completed in 1860. The railway ran from Saint John to Shediac, New Brunswick.
First sod broken of the European and North American Railway March 17, 1857.
First train ran north on the railroad for three and one half miles, the length already constructed in 1857.
Saint John's first water supply came from Lily Lake in1838 after many previous unsuccessful attempts, carried by a flume of wood to a pumping station at the foot of Brussel Street.
First gas works commenced in 1844.
Streets first lighted in 1845
First lumberman in Saint John was John Glasier, son of Benjamin Glasier - 1799.
First steam fog whistle in the world was invented by Scotsman, Robert Foulis in 1854. It was erected on Partridge Island in 1859 to aid approaching mariners in determining their direction.
First suspension bridge in Saint John completed in 1853 spanned Reversing Falls.
First rector in Saint John from Royal Gazette, August 1 1786, Rev. George Bisset
The first clock to be placed in the Tower of Trinity Church was in 1812.
First Ball held at McPherson's Coffee House on King Street, 1784.
Saint John had first cut-rate grocery and first resident dentist in the Province of New Brunswick.
First ship built in Saint John was the "Alfred" Frigate built in 1785 and registered in London, August 28, 1785.
First attempt at shipbuilding was by John Simonds in 1775.
John Lawton was the first Loyalist to engage in shipbuilding.
First importation of pig iron into Saint John by Hams and Alla. From it was cast the first Franklyn Stoves in New Brunswick.
First tanner in Saint John was William Melick - 1790.
First hydrographic survey of the Saint John Harbour in 1761.
First manufacture of soap and candles in 1785 by Asa Blakslee.
June 1817 - corner stone of the first brick building (Disbrow building) was laid.
First case of cholera reported in June 1854.
April 1784, first recorded marriage in Parr Town.
February 1785, first execution in Saint John.
First telephone in Saint John was installed December 1879 by Western Union Telegraph Company, on the corner of King Street and Chipman Hill.
G.A. Maguire was granted patent for a "toothpaste holder" in 1937.
First dyke at Marsh Bridge 1788.
In 1840 Prof. L.A. Laurcat started the first balloon ascension in Canada from Barrack Square. Tickets for select seats were four shillings.
First building erected as a theater in Saint John opened January 15, 1856.
First home for the aged was W.O. Smith House on Germain Street, 1871.
First Loyalist child born in Parr Town was Benjamin Stanton. He was born on King Street in a tent where the horse fountain now stands.
June Clark was the first woman in Canada to run for United Church ministry 1945.
First Dry Dock customer was the Norwegian Steamer MH Kongsheven under Captain John Palander.
First quarantine station in Canada 1785.
First waterfront union in Canada
First National Historic Streetscape in Canada, Prince William Street - designated in 1981.
First Boys and Girls Club of Canada was founded in Saint John circa 1902. Second club in Canada was formed in Montreal.
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  #1216  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2012, 12:11 PM
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We all know that Confederation was devastating for the Maritimes, but we can't go back in time. Halifax and Saint John should have become major east coast cities, but maybe that just got delayed 150 years? I'm more interested in seeing these 2 cities start to prosper again than bring up 100 year old grievances.

The Maritimes are more like New England than the rest of Canada, but I don't see annexing New England as very likely.
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Last edited by isaidso; Aug 10, 2012 at 12:28 PM.
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  #1217  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2012, 2:50 PM
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Great pictures of London bolognium!!
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  #1218  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2012, 3:50 PM
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We all know that Confederation was good for Ottawa, but speculation otherwise is idle.
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  #1219  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2012, 4:02 PM
RyeJay RyeJay is offline
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Originally Posted by SJTOKO View Post
Ridiculous tripe.

The University of New Brunswick is the oldest in Canada. When I walk around my hometown (Saint John) all I see is Canadian firsts. First Police Force, First Law school, First YMCA, first bank. It's the oldest incorporated Canadian city and the third oldest overall, St. John's being the oldest. Anyway, here's an essay for you to read. Perhaps you might learn something.
Thanks for the read, but are you able to provide a relevant essay as to why Central Canada is 'unlike' the U.S., as you've claimed?

Central Canada's pattern of colonisation is more akin to New England than the Maritimes. If this troubles you, perhaps you could vent your rage by screaming at a map of the Maritime peninsulas and islands that make New England-type colonisation impossible for the Maritimes.

Halifax may have been a major port back then, but even back then it was isolated. York/Toronto was connected to Hamilton to the west -- Montreal and Quebec City to the east. These connections, which were and still are an economic advantage, were short distance, easily navigable, and cheap -- compared to long distance, expensive travelling on potentially rough seas all the way around the peninsula of Nova Scotia in order to reach the nearest major port of Saint John, from Halifax.

Boston is even further away. And U.S. protectionism would have isolted Nova Scotia regardless, because even if Nova Scotia hadn't joined Canada it was still part of British North America. Joining the U.S. was never seriously considered, especially since Halifax was built-up to resist America, militarily.

And indeed, I enjoy how this essay reflects what I've said about industries not moving out of the Maritimes. Investment in the Maritimes stifled -- not closing factories immediately, if at all (as your list of 'firsts' is concerned) -- as expansions of industries bloomed in Central Canada. It is this level of industrial development that never took hold in the Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and PEI.

St. John's, by the way, is part of Atlantic Canada, not the Maritimes
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  #1220  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2012, 4:10 PM
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Laval University (Fr: Université Laval), in Quebec City, is the oldest centre of education in Canada, founded in 1668.
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. (Bertrand Russell)
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