PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by GeneW

My son lives in Millvale and works at Smalls and it's definitely getting a lot of overflow residents who would live in Lawrenceville but can't afford to.

And Millvale itself is not so big.

I wonder what property costs in Sharpsburg these days . . . .

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I wonder what property costs in Sharpsburg these days . . . .

It ranges from as low as $46,000 to about $120,000. There's a house on N Canal Street now for $379,000, but it's way better than the average house. Probably overpriced regardless though.

There definitely are "Lawrenceville refugees" in Sharpsburg these days as well. It now has its own brewery, Dancing Gnome. Gentrification seems to have skipped Etna though, which is as gritty as ever.

[highlander206]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It ranges from as low as $46,000 to about $120,000. There's a house on N Canal Street now for $379,000, but it's way better than the average house. Probably overpriced regardless though.

There definitely are "Lawrenceville refugees" in Sharpsburg these days as well. It now has its own brewery, Dancing Gnome. Gentrification seems to have skipped Etna though, which is as gritty as ever.

That's interesting as Etna has the same transportation options as Sharpsburg and is a little closer to the city too. Etna hasn't changed at all in the last few years from what I notice.

[photoLith]

Nope, Etna and Sharpsburg are being overlooked, dont quite know why. They are both super close to Highland Park and right next to Aspinwall and Fox Chapel.

[Bricktrimble]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Anyway, a few days back there was the back and forth about the cracker plant in Beaver County. As I've said in the past, I am actually pretty concerned that its construction will actually be a detriment to Pittsburgh redevelopment, at least in the medium term.

My logic is as follows: From what I have read, the plant will require somewhere in the vicinity of 6,000 construction jobs. Many of those jobs will undoubtedly be specialized elements of the construction industry which cater to the industrial market, meaning people will be moving into the area from outside. But some of those jobs (at least on the subcontractor level) are going to draw on the existing construction labor market. This will cause a local labor shortage for other projects. This labor shortage will in turn cause local construction wages to tend to rise. As a result building anything which isn't the cracker plant will get more expensive, which may considerably tighten the development spigot for several years.

While this will certainly require more skilled workers, there are efforts afoot that are trying to address these issues. The bricklayers union that I am familiar with are trying to entice young people into the trade to help with the upcoming shortfall. There won't be a lot of masonry on that particular project there will be a demand on other local projects that will require that skill. Other union groups are doing the same, especially those in the pipefitters and other similar trades. It remains to be seen if these efforts will work, but at least they are trying to attract a newer work force.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by photoLith

Nope, Etna and Sharpsburg are being overlooked, dont quite know why. They are both super close to Highland Park and right next to Aspinwall and Fox Chapel.

About a year ago I was showing and leasing a couple of houses in Sharpsburg and I was told that 73% of Sharpsburg units are rentals. That's really high, if true. That creates a transient nature to the town which you probably can't notice on the surface. It's a good location and has a very nice little business district.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

About a year ago I was showing and leasing a couple of houses in Sharpsburg and I was told that 73% of Sharpsburg units are rentals. That's really high, if true. That creates a transient nature to the town which you probably can't notice on the surface. It's a good location and has a very nice little business district.

As I recall, there have been some articles recently about how we have developed a vibrant flipping community here (mostly in a good way, in that they are buying properties, actually investing in fixing them up, and then selling them for a reasonable profit). So, that goes along with your observation in that it probably wouldn't take long for a community like that to change pretty significantly, when and if potential demand it there.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

About a year ago I was showing and leasing a couple of houses in Sharpsburg and I was told that 73% of Sharpsburg units are rentals. That's really high, if true. That creates a transient nature to the town which you probably can't notice on the surface. It's a good location and has a very nice little business district.

I'm sure Sharpsburg Towers, the senior highrise, swings the average a bit, since it has 103 units and there's less than 1,600 households in the entire borough.

[TBone7281]

Originally Posted by photoLith

Nope, Etna and Sharpsburg are being overlooked, dont quite know why. They are both super close to Highland Park and right next to Aspinwall and Fox Chapel.

Originally Posted by Austinlee

About a year ago I was showing and leasing a couple of houses in Sharpsburg and I was told that 73% of Sharpsburg units are rentals. That's really high, if true. That creates a transient nature to the town which you probably can't notice on the surface. It's a good location and has a very nice little business district.

There was a place in Sharpsburg that was pretty high on our list when we shopped for our first ("starter") house. It was decent with a good price, but we didn't go with it after we realized it was in a flood zone.

[BrianTH]

Downtown has gotten its first off-leash dog park, in a triangle of land near the Convention Center:

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/ci...s/201701050067



It is a relatively modest start, but they might look to do another more ambitious one if this one is well-used. In any event, it was a highly-desired amenity by Downtown residents.

[highlander206]

Another thought I just had about the three towns, if I was looking at starting a family or had kids already, I would try to buy in Sharpsburg over Etna and Millvale. The Fox Chapel SD offers much more than what Shaler does.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by highlander206

Another thought I just had about the three towns, if I was looking at starting a family or had kids already, I would try to buy in Sharpsburg over Etna and Millvale. The Fox Chapel SD offers much more than what Shaler does.

I've heard very bad things about how kids from Sharpsburg are treated in Fox Chapel Area SD. I wouldn't want my kids called "river rats" by some spoiled rich kid, no matter how good the education was supposed to be.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by TBone7281

There was a place in Sharpsburg that was pretty high on our list when we shopped for our first ("starter") house. It was decent with a good price, but we didn't go with it after we realized it was in a flood zone.

I don't blame you. I wouldn't ever buy in a flood plain. If you get a mortgage on the house, the bank will require mandatory flood insurance upon checking the flood plain maps and it can be quite expensive.

Originally Posted by highlander206

Another thought I just had about the three towns, if I was looking at starting a family or had kids already, I would try to buy in Sharpsburg over Etna and Millvale. The Fox Chapel SD offers much more than what Shaler does.

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've heard very bad things about how kids from Sharpsburg are treated in Fox Chapel Area SD. I wouldn't want my kids called "river rats" by some spoiled rich kid, no matter how good the education was supposed to be.

See, i am not surprised to hear this. The weird thing is Sharpsburg is basically contiguous right into Aspinwall and they both LOOK nice on the surface and have that quality old town charm. And both are in the high end Fox Chapel school district. Yet one, Aspinwall has an average sale price probably around $300k and the other Sharspburg is chock full of rentals and pretty affordable ones too. That usually means a social hierarchy at the school.

A quick search of the West Penn Mulitlist tells me that in the last 180 days out of about 30 houses that sold in Aspinwall, almost all were between $200-$450k. In the same time frame not one sale (6 total) in Sharpsburg was over $100k. They ranged from $45k - $95k.

When did these two towns in the same school district diverge so noticeably? Usually school district dictates home sale price more than just about any other factor. And Sharpsburg has a better business district.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Downtown has gotten its first off-leash dog park, in a triangle of land near the Convention Center:

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/ci...s/201701050067



It is a relatively modest start, but they might look to do another more ambitious one if this one is well-used. In any event, it was a highly-desired amenity by Downtown residents.

This is cool. More amenities!

[photoLith]

Sharpsburg is in the same school district as Fox Chapel? I don't think that's right, thought they went to the Etna schools. Would be why Sharpsburg is still kind of a dump.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

As I recall, there have been some articles recently about how we have developed a vibrant flipping community here (mostly in a good way, in that they are buying properties, actually investing in fixing them up, and then selling them for a reasonable profit). So, that goes along with your observation in that it probably wouldn't take long for a community like that to change pretty significantly, when and if potential demand it there.

I can attest that I personally showed and toured at least half a dozen units that were getting full renovations. There is definitely money being invested in Sharpsburg.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by photoLith

Sharpsburg is in the same school district as Fox Chapel? I don't think that's right, thought they went to the Etna schools. Would be why Sharpsburg is still kind of a dump.

Fox Chapel Area School District is a public school district located in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. It serves the boroughs of Aspinwall, Blawnox, Fox Chapel, and Sharpsburg, along with Indiana and O'Hara Townships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Ch...chool_District

[photoLith]

That's really weird, by all accounts sharpsburg should be as nice as Aspinwall.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by photoLith

That's really weird, by all accounts sharpsburg should be as nice as Aspinwall.

Aspinwall as it is today isn't as it always was. It used to be more downscale (albeit never as poor as Sharpsburg), but has been gentrifying over the last 20 years.

As for Sharpsburg itself, keep in mind until relatively recently there weren't that many middle class families who thought living in a small home with a tiny yard in gritty and poor neighborhood would be appealing - and most of those people would want to stay in the city, where the action was. People who cared about schools first and foremost would just pick a real suburb, not a mill town. Plus the elementary school that Sharpsburg feeds to isn't as "good" as the others in the district (which is because Sharpsburg kids go to it of course).

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by photoLith

That's really weird, by all accounts sharpsburg should be as nice as Aspinwall.

Agreed. I know nothing about Blawnox so I just searched home sales there for the last 180 days. It has 12 sales, 10 of which were $100k - $276k.

So that puts the average price of home sales in the Fox Chapel School District municipalities in this order for the last 180 days:

Sharpsburg - All <$100k
Blawnox - $100 - $200k
Indiana Twp - $200 - $300k
Aspinwall - $200 - $300k
O'Hara Twp - $200 - 400k+
Fox Chapel - $800 - $1m+