The future of Hamilton's public transit - Page 70

matt602 · #**1381** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 2:07 AM**

So once again we're not only asked to swallow a fare increase but ALSO a decrease in service. Paying more for less service. Yep, that's going to get more people onto public transit.

BrianE · #**1382** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 1:21 PM**

I'm confused... a big part of the budget must go to diesel and Natural Gas and yet diesel is down from $1.30 last year and natural gas is down 75% from last year. Are they not reaping these savings? Aren't the more efficient hybrids and articulated buses having ANY cost savings?

Where did these savings go?

SteelTown · #**1383** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 1:27 PM**

Ridership went down to like 9 or close to 10% compared to last year. Less ridership means less revenue and also means less money from the province since they use ridership as a funding forumla for the gas tax.

If you want to see a jump in ridership get Mohawk on board with free transit.

drpgq · #**1384** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 3:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianE

I'm confused... a big part of the budget must go to diesel and Natural Gas and yet diesel is down from $1.30 last year and natural gas is down 75% from last year. Are they not reaping these savings? Aren't the more efficient hybrids and articulated buses having ANY cost savings?

Where did these savings go?

A lot of the really low prices for natural gas have been at the wellhead rather than for the final customer. Although one would think the HSR would still save some money. It would be interesting to see the average price for natural gas that the HSR paid.

matt602 · #**1385** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 3:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Ridership went down to like 9 or close to 10% compared to last year. Less ridership means less revenue and also means less money from the province since they use ridership as a funding forumla for the gas tax.

And it's only going to go down farther if a fare hike and service cuts happen. I'm not blaming the HSR for this either. It's the city and the provincial government that is dropping the ball here. They preach green thinking and wanting to get people onto transit and at the same time suggest that raising fares and cutting service is something we need to do. It's pathetic and backwards thinking.

SteelTown · #**1386** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 4:31 PM**

This is when they should look at increasing the HSR levy but I doubt they'll want to touch that after the area rating report, which will be delayed and not acted on after the election, late 2010.

FairHamilton · #**1387** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 4:52 PM**

Want to raise ridership, put some sort of tax on parking lots downtown.

My wife was taking the bus downtown and back a couple of times a week. Cash cost = $2.40 each way (I told her to buy tickets) for a total of $4.80 return. Cost to park at an outlying parking lot = $3.00.

SteelTown · #**1388** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 4:55 PM**

It cost me $10.00 to park near the downtown McMaster campus building but if I park after 3pm it goes down to $3.00.

mishap · #**1389** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 5:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

If you want to see a jump in ridership get Mohawk on board with free transit.

Sure, the HSR would gain some subsidies, but they'd still have to pay to provide the service. Like McMaster, there really isn't any excess capacity at certain times, which means to get those riders, they'd have to pay to put more buses on the road. Coupled with the loss of fare revenue from those currently paying, they'd lose more than they'd gain from the province.

FairHamilton · #**1390** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 9:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

It cost me $10.00 to park near the downtown McMaster campus building but if I park after 3pm it goes down to $3.00.

Over in the Wilson & Hughson area it's like $3.00.

markbarbera · #**1391** Posted **Oct 20, 2009, 9:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FairHamilton

Want to raise ridership, put some sort of tax on parking lots downtown.

My wife was taking the bus downtown and back a couple of times a week. Cash cost = $2.40 each way (I told her to buy tickets) for a total of $4.80 return. Cost to park at an outlying parking lot = $3.00.

Good point. A tax on downtown parking lots will increase the cost of driving downtown, but this absolutely would need to be dovetailed with significant improvements to public transit service. Simply making it more expensive for the drivers without making it more convenient to come downtown by transit will shift the consumer out of downtown.

I don't know if the Ontario Municipalities Act allows for cities to introduce new tax measures on parking. The City of Toronto act did give that city extra powers for taxation beyond that in the Ontario Municipality Act. I suppose the overall tax rate on property used as parking lots could be applied, but I certainly not an expert on the topic of municipal taxation powers. Maybe it's time for a City of Hamilton Act.

FairHamilton · #**1392** Posted **Oct 21, 2009, 2:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

It cost me $10.00 to park near the downtown McMaster campus building but if I park after 3pm it goes down to $3.00.

Tonight on my walk home, I took a look at a couple of lots a 3 minute walk from the building and I'd recommend going a little east of John at Jackson & Caroline for $3 and $4 All Day parking.

SteelTown · #**1393** Posted **Oct 22, 2009, 1:41 PM**

Council has 27th, 28th and 29th to discuss about possible service cuts and fare hike for HSR. 29th sounds like decision day from council.

Honestly I wouldn't mind if they just increase the fare from $2.40 to $2.50, people usually just drop two quarters anyways.

mishap · #**1394** Posted **Oct 22, 2009, 2:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Honestly I wouldn't mind if they just increase the fare from $2.40 to $2.50, people usually just drop two quarters anyways.

If that's the case, then making it officially $2.50 will have little effect on total revenue. If the HSR really wants to increase revenue, they should make everyone pay a fare.

SteelTown · #**1395** Posted **Oct 22, 2009, 2:46 PM**

The real increase will come from ticket fares. For cash fare they should just increase it to $2.50, no more nickels and dimes.

coalminecanary · #**1396** Posted **Oct 22, 2009, 4:24 PM**

I stand behind my idea of making it $1 flat for everyone. ridership will go up for sure. Even $2. Eliminate tickets altogether, they benefit NOBODY

realcity · #**1397** Posted **Oct 22, 2009, 4:47 PM**

^ that sounds like a good way to do it. Sometimes the simplest answer is the best

matt602 · #**1398** Posted **Oct 23, 2009, 12:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

I stand behind my idea of making it $1 flat for everyone. ridership will go up for sure. Even $2. Eliminate tickets altogether, they benefit NOBODY

I really don't think that would have as much of an effect on ridership as service increases/expansion would.

bornagainbiking · #**1399** Posted **Oct 23, 2009, 8:44 AM**

A $2 flat rate is a cost saver for many, and a commuter who goes to work M-F is 40 trips (2X20 $4 a day)or $80. One dollar over the current montly pass.
Cost saving in the printing, administration and distribution of tickets,.
One important issue is the tax credit, how do you prove you take the bus to work?
Just think of the twoonnie as a token.
We need a cross town express that goes City centre to Eastgate via Lawrence. Take the load off the #5s.
I see the bus well used during the day.

matt602 · #**1400** Posted **Oct 23, 2009, 12:31 PM**

Unfortunately cost savings really don't matter if the service isn't good enough to be any more convenient than driving. Standing around watching buses pass you because they're full or service that isn't frequent enough or far reaching enough is what is keeping a lot of people off of transit in this city. I think they would all have no problem with the fare raised, so long as some more service improvements are invested. Doesn't really matter if it's as cheap as $1 or $2 if it doesn't actually do what you need it to do.