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  #4701  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 5:07 AM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
It was never designed with an enclosed roof. In fact it was priced with an option for no roof at all.

Building a dome is a completely different thing. It would take months of design time to go from a dome to no dome. You need to design mechanical systems and structure for that. You don't design a dome and budget cut it out and leave the rest. A dome was talked about well before design started. It it was never part of this project.

The water infiltration is the responsibility of the architect. Even if they did just cut the domed roof. It would still be their responsibility to make sure changes were made to the construction details to keep water out.
I only blame the government in the sense that it mishandled the whole situation by allowing political interests to dictate certain events. Honestly we should have let Leo ledohowski have the team and we might actually have avoided the mess of the less-than-qualified architect. Wasnt he gonna build the stadium himself if he were to have ownership of the team? I suspect the amount of tax dollars spent on his project would have been substantiallyless.
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  #4702  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 6:47 AM
blueandgoldguy blueandgoldguy is offline
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Yeah, Leo Ledohowski was going to build a $300 million domed stadium with a water park in it and with little or no public money...sure. The project would have ballooned to over $400 million not that he would have been able to finance it. After all, he failed to build a measly indoor water park even when he was offered a generous subsidy.

Then there are the operating costs of a domed stadium - somewhere in the range of $10 - $20 million annually or so I've heard. There is simply no way you could justify those ongoing costs.

In Minneapolis, following the end of the December 2013, a construction firm tore down and removed the debris of a 63,000 seat, 1.8 million square foot domed stadium and built a brand new 66,000 seat domed stadium in the very same spot...fully complete by August 2016. Just a shade over 2.5 years.

Meanwhile, here in Winnipeg, the first shovel went into the ground in May 2010. This was followed by pushing dirt around for the next several months as it became apparent that Asper's plan of a high-end retail complex on the old stadium site had lost steam. As a result, we waited until November or December of that year when the province finally stepped in and said they would fund the project. Then the actual construction began.

By early 2012 it was obvious the stadium would not be completed. Beginning of the season they stated it would not be complete until early September. August roles around and there is announcement the stadium will not be completed in 2012. They essentially get another year to complete the project and somehow Stuart Olson are still scrambling to complete the stadium prior to the pre-season the following June.

I can't help but think those rumors I heard about a strict no overtime policy to keep costs down might be true. How else do you explain IGF barely being completed after 2.5 years with all its design flaws - and this in a 33,000 seat 500,000 square foot stadium - while just south of Winnipeg Minny not only destroys a stadium but also builds another one on the very same spot with double the seating capacity and nearly 4 times the square footage in the same time frame. Or was there another more important factor?
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  #4703  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2017, 1:48 PM
The Unknown Poster The Unknown Poster is offline
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Leo?? lol Come on. He was smart enough to get some free publicity out of it knowing hed never have to actually build anything. The new Stadium was pricing itself out of the range where Leo could afford naming rights.

As for expertise, didnt they bring in a Stadium design consultant near the end? But he basically worked under Wan?
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  #4704  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2017, 10:15 PM
Wolf13 Wolf13 is offline
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I'm just going to pull a hard Northstarsproject and say I heard another side to the story (I did) from "important people in the know" (totally true, I swear, lol).

Yes, there are specialty stadium consultants, but they were priced out of this. Later, the various development partners priced a $250M stadium out of their own $190M budget and found their dog to drag through the mud. Ray isn't without his mistakes here, but it's been a campaign against the wrong party.

The city wanted more expensive stadium than they were willing to pay for, and while it had flaws, they also greatly aided in the misdirected processes by eliminating everything possible to make the budget work.
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  #4705  
Old Posted May 6, 2017, 10:47 PM
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I went to the ticket pick-up event at IGF today... these aren't highly visible changes, but you can see that the top rows of the north endzone have been chopped to make way for more patio/party deck space. I have no way of knowing this for sure, but it appears to me that the addition of semi-private club seats and patio space have probably pushed IGF's capacity from the initial 33,500 to below 33,000 now.
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  #4706  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 1:44 AM
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Great news from Canada Soccer today that the Canadian Premiere League will be starting play and Winnipeg is one of the first two cities to officially enter. Bombers are working with True North who are thought to be the ownership group (based on a tweet posted on the Voyageurs forum - this has not been confirmed - the press release only says the Bombers are working alongside a "group"). They will play at IGF.

CanPL web page: http://canpl.ca/



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WINNIPEG, MB., May 6, 2017 – The Winnipeg Football Club can confirm they are working alongside the group that is committed to bringing a Tier 1 FIFA sanctioned soccer league to Canada.

The proposed league, the Canadian Premier League (CPL) – will place teams in many markets and will assemble an ownership group of owner/operators with world-class experience. A Hamilton ownership group has already confirmed they are on board and will support a team. Currently, Canada does not have its own professional league.

Earlier this year, the WFC expressed an interest in establishing a team here in Winnipeg. As part of this ongoing process, the WFC has applied and been accepted as a member of the Canadian Soccer Association. The team would play out of Investors Group Field, currently home to the CFL’s Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

“For the past 18 months, we have been working with the group that is spearheading this venture and have indicated our interest in founding a club here in Manitoba,” said WFC President & CEO Wade Miller.

Details on the CPL are still forthcoming, but the league is hoping to commence play in the fall of 2018.

“We know from hosting the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup that this community has a passion for the sport,” added Miller. “There has been a lot of work done behind the scenes to move this endeavor forward.”

The WFC looks forward to updating the community over the next several months on the progress of the Canadian Premier League and the status of a potential team in Winnipeg.

For updates and more information, and to show your support for a premier soccer team in Manitoba, please go to bluebombers.com/soccer.

Last edited by EndoftheBeginning; May 7, 2017 at 12:38 PM.
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  #4707  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf13 View Post
I'm just going to pull a hard Northstarsproject and say I heard another side to the story (I did) from "important people in the know" (totally true, I swear, lol).

Yes, there are specialty stadium consultants, but they were priced out of this. Later, the various development partners priced a $250M stadium out of their own $190M budget and found their dog to drag through the mud. Ray isn't without his mistakes here, but it's been a campaign against the wrong party.

The city wanted more expensive stadium than they were willing to pay for, and while it had flaws, they also greatly aided in the misdirected processes by eliminating everything possible to make the budget work.
Not true. HOK was relived of their duties while Asper was still the client. Consultant fees are a minuscule piece of a project of this scale.

When a building leaks, the lawsuit starts with the architect. Continuous vapour barriers, proper slopes and a lack of roof drains have nothing to do with cost cutting.

The lawsuit is targeting both the architect and contractor. Those are the parties responsible for water drainage no matter what the budget or timeline is. Neither are an acceptable defence. We will see when the lawsuit plays out how much of the responsibility is borne by each, but those are the only two players responsible. It may be entirely on the contractor, but the architect will always be part of a lawsuit like this. These issues can not be pinned on an insufficient budget.

Last edited by trueviking; May 7, 2017 at 7:54 PM.
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  #4708  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 7:38 PM
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It's really no different than if a building falls down. The architect will be sued along with the contractor. This will get passed down to the engineers through the architect, who is generally the prime consultant. (Unless it's a design-build). If it is found the building collapsed because the columns were made smaller to save money, it would not be the owner's liability. It would have been up to the structural engineer to design sufficient columns for the loading. It would not be a defence to say the budget or accelerated timeline made him reduce column sizes. Water infiltration is the same.
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  #4709  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndoftheBeginning View Post
Great news from Canada Soccer today that the Canadian Premiere League will be starting play and Winnipeg is one of the first two cities to officially enter. Bombers are working with True North who are thought to be the ownership group (based on a tweet posted on the Voyageurs forum - this has not been confirmed - the press release only says the Bombers are working alongside a "group"). They will play at IGF.

CanPL web page: http://canpl.ca/
Great news. Been far too long without pro soccer in the city. Not unexpected with the World Cup bid. MLS was formed as part of the 1994 World Cup. Fall start date is interesting. Most leagues around the world run fall to late spring but MLS runs spring to fall. Not sure how a league based in Canada is starting in the fall. Certainly can't play through the winter.
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  #4710  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 9:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Great news. Been far too long without pro soccer in the city. Not unexpected with the World Cup bid. MLS was formed as part of the 1994 World Cup. Fall start date is interesting. Most leagues around the world run fall to late spring but MLS runs spring to fall. Not sure how a league based in Canada is starting in the fall. Certainly can't play through the winter.
I think 2018 may be considered a "soft launch" with a slightly abbreviated schedule, likely to take advantage of post-WC2018 fan interest. First real full season is most probably 2019 and I think would be spring to fall to suit climate conditions here.

I'd like to see the team honour the Winnipeg Fury name, but am not opposed to going in a new direction either. If Ottawa Fury enter, it would be most Canadian thing to have two teams named the same.
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  #4711  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 12:55 AM
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A shame they will play in the football stadium. Would prefer a smaller venue.
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  #4712  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 2:41 AM
lilwayne lilwayne is offline
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love itttt

stadium sits empy far to long

this would keep it busy throughout the spring summer months.. and by no means is IGF a massive venue.. the design of the stadium perfectly suits soccor events.. if you close off the upper deck i think they should have no problem filling 5 - 8 thouusand seats a night.. i think theres plenty of immigrants here who love soccor who will support a franchise. this will also create more revenue for the stadium which makes no money most days.
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  #4713  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 2:42 AM
lilwayne lilwayne is offline
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
A shame they will play in the football stadium. Would prefer a smaller venue.
igf isn't no massive 70 thousand seat football stadium I think its suits soccor events more than it does football..
don't understand your thinking on this one
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  #4714  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 2:47 AM
lilwayne lilwayne is offline
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I could see teams in

Saskatoon
Winnipeg
Hamilton
Victoria
abbotsford
Calgary
Edmonton
Quebec
st johns
Ottawa
regina

tickets will be 10 - 35 dollars
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  #4715  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 6:17 AM
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Originally Posted by lilwayne View Post
igf isn't no massive 70 thousand seat football stadium I think its suits soccor events more than it does football..
don't understand your thinking on this one
Because this league will play in front of almost 30,000 empty seats in this stadium. That hurts the game experience. Go to a Bison football game to see what it's like to watch a sport in an empty stadium. An empty 34,000 seat stafium feels just as bad as an empty 70,0000 seat stadium.

To be successful this league needs to play in appropriately sized venues. Those are in the 4-6,000 range. NASL attendance, which is a better league than this averages just over 4,000 per game.

The University stadium next door is much more suitable. Has a grass field and seats 5,000 with extra seating available. Much more appropriate option.
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  #4716  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 6:20 AM
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Curious why a 34,000 seat stadium with plastic grass suits a soccer league that will draw a few thousand fans, more than it does football.
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  #4717  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 7:03 AM
lilwayne lilwayne is offline
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I watched the fifa womens cup game at the stadium and it was actually a better experience than watching football

the way the stadium is designed similar to the type of venues most soccor teams play in.

ya well see how the team is received we may end up getting more support than you think.. I mean we seem to support our cfl franchinse more than bc and Toronto do so we may end up showing similar support for soccor franchise.. I Think we have a huge soccor fanbase in Winnipeg.. I could see the stadium working and drawing bigger crowds than u think.. I imagine 10 - 15 thousand ppl on average.. upper level probably be closed off.

I think its going to be affordable and huge draw for families especially ones with young kids.
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  #4718  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 4:20 PM
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While I'm happy we'll get a team, I don't think it will be a big draw at all. Will be lucky to compete with Goldeyes. While yes we do have a lot of immigrants that are passionate about soccer, many live central, don't have vehicles, and don't have much disposable income. Bussing your family down to IGF for a soccer game where meals are $13 is probably not an appealing option for many of them.

Also, CFL will always take precedent in schedule. Not sure what turnaround time will be to change to soccer (if there's any), but I can't imagine many people going to a weekend game in summer when they're all at cabins. Bomber games on weekends have even been a tough sell lately.
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  #4719  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 4:35 PM
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^ I highly doubt there will be huge overlap between the soccer fan crowd and cottage owners. Scheduling is not a huge issue either given that the Bombers average only one home game every other week during the season.

I think a soccer team would do well, although I share vike's concerns about the crowds getting somewhat lost at IGF. In some ways it's too bad University Stadium has been allowed to deterioriate because it would have made a pretty good home. It would probably be cheaper to totally rebuild vs. trying to bring the existing facility up to modern standards.

I doubt it would cannibalize existing teams that much since a soccer team would probably appeal to a large segment of people who aren't into the other local franchises. I have soccer loving relatives from overseas who don't care about the Jets, Bombers or Goldeyes but would probably snap up season tickets and corporate sponsorships for a soccer team in a heartbeat. Kids also play soccer in large numbers and would probably be into a local pro team.
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  #4720  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 5:13 PM
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Yeah, I just don't see it ever being more of a draw than a Cyclones game. Now that there are 2 professional soccer leagues operating in Canada (NASL and MLS), I just don't see the point. I think the Bombers/Winnipeg would be better off making a push to join Edmonton in the NASL then this upstart league that honestly will likely fail. You will end up with the same thing that the CFL constantly battles with – many people just don't see an all-Canadian league as "legitimate" – and many of those people are young. CFL stands today based on history and family ties, but there are many (young) people who just don't care about it, as it's a "second tier" league.
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