Making Manitoba a "Have Province"

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by psych1

Is there anybody in Calgary who is not a raving neocon? It seems like you guys have noone to argue politics with there cause you all believe the same thing, so you have to seek out people in other provinces through the internet who you can spew your strawman arguments at?

Actually I am a Pegger.... and it is mostly from my experience in living under the absurd policies of the NDP which has given my a very informed view.

If you wish to counter any of what I said in regards to how the NDP has recked economies of which they take over, please be my guess.

Even the die-hard socialists are beginning to abandon the NDP ... see Buzz Hargrove. I mean lets face it the NDP have never evolved beyond the 1950's (thats being generious ) in terms of economic theories. If there has been a socialist who has been able to accept the global economy I haven't met him.

[spiritedenergy]

i hope and I think Gary Doer will remain premier... socialism is the way to go, see how good Sweden, Norway, Denmark and so on are doing

a GDP growth of 3.1 is simply amazing, we in Italy are stuck at 1 or similar... and it's way better to grow slower and steady like Manitoba then having those non-sense booms like Alberta, Kuwait... people doesn't get so arrogant, environment is preserved and services are better.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

i hope and I think Gary Doer will remain premier... socialism is the way to go, see how good Sweden, Norway, Denmark and so on are doing

a GDP growth of 3.1 is simply amazing, we in Italy are stuck at 1 or similar... and it's way better to grow slower and steady like Manitoba then having those non-sense booms like Alberta, Kuwait... people doesn't get so arrogant, environment is preserved and services are better.

I guess you haven't lived here long enough for the NDP to crush your hopes and dreams.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by zoomer

Alberta has 14 billion more dollars in oil revenue..of course their tax rates can be lower and the budget far rosier!! Manitoba's total expected revenue from all sources including taxation, transfer payments, etc. for 2006/2007 is only 8.65 billion dollars! Imagine if they could add another 14 billion on top of that! (although they would then lose transfer payments).

Um, Alberta has 3-4x (I forget exactly where it's at now) the population of Manitoba. No kidding there will be a lot more income. That 14 billion is not only generated by an extra couple of million bodies, but it also has to SERVICE those same bodies. Also, once you get past the O&G industry, Alberta doesn't have all that much money coming in. Besides, Manitoba is a poor province to use as a comparison. Much smaller population, far more diverse economy, virtually no boom/bust cycles...

Let's compare to BC. Do the ports and forestry industries bring in comparable amounts of revenue to Alberta's O&G? Last I head the port in Vancouver is at least a multi-billion source of revenue, but I'll admit I have no idea how it fits in the overall budget scheme.

Seriously, no one questions that Alberta is blessed by plentiful natural resources. So is every other province. Oil and gas are currently the hot item (although that's changing pretty quickly), but we're no Saudi Arabia. It's not like billions of dollars are just showering down from the sky in everyone's lap. The fact that the province isn't wasting it left right and centre is why we're doing so well.

Hell, this year's budget worked on an assumption that gas would sit around $7.70 - a VERY conservative number based on what the price was actually at when the budget was drawn up. They could have worked on $10, $12, or even $15, and then came up with all sorts of ways to spend that extra revenue. Now that gas is hovering close to $6, we may even see some budget cuts this year.

THAT is being fiscally conservative. The province hasn't been stupid and set itself up to run a deficit budget, and Albertans are going to be far better off than we would be if the province had decided to blow $10 billion that it didn't have. That is what has kept this province doing so well - the insane energy prices of 2005 and 2006 just made it that much better.

[spiritedenergy]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I guess you haven't lived here long enough for the NDP to crush your hopes and dreams.

but weren't the 90ies when Manitoba went really down, and weren't the conservative in power at the time? I'm missing something maybe...

[1ajs]

who to vote for hmm damed if i do damed if i don't hmm this is fucked bah

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by psych1

Is there anybody in Calgary who is not a raving neocon? It seems like you guys have noone to argue politics with there cause you all believe the same thing, so you have to seek out people in other provinces through the internet who you can spew your strawman arguments at?

Ugh. Please don't ever confuse fiscal conservatives with neocons. Neocons basically ARE big and intrusive government (combined with a healthy dose of social conservatism).

Let me introduce you to my good friend, Libertarianism. He's far more at home in Calgary than any neocon (or any socialist, for that matter).

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

but weren't the 90ies when Manitoba went really down, and weren't the conservative in power at the time? I'm missing something maybe...

id be curios to see a patern of who was in power for the last 50 years and what the econimy was doing......

[newflyer]

In order to turn Manitoba into a "have province" it is necessary in incourage capital investment. Since GDP per capita is directly related to productivity per capita, it is imparitive that capital investment is encouraged in order to increase productivity.

For those of you who haven't been keeping up on the tax policies of Manitoba .. Manitoba is one of the few remaining jurisdictions which penalizes and discourages companies which want to invest in new capital. (ie: machines, technology, modern equipment and buildings)

While this as other taxes increase government revenue over the short term it cripples an economy over the longer term, as its capital base falls further and further behind.

I saw a very interesting feature on business investment, which discribed the type of new warehouses are being built. They are larger, which much higher cieling hieghts, able to dock larger trucks with larger capacities. They are much more automated than older buildings. They newer warehouses make it much more efficient to load and unload larger loads of goods. Buildings which don't meet the newer demands of the transportaion industry are being left behind.

While this is just an example of the capital demands of a particular industry, you can see how imparitive it is for a province to encourage capital investment to keep its competitive edge. It is similar across the board.. all indutsries are continually modernizing and creating efficiences. If Manitoba discourages its business base from investing in modern capital it won't have a very efficient economy.. thus have a lower productivity level per capita.. realitive to other economies.

Manitoba needs to focus on improving its efficiencies. This is not a new concept, as its been around for centuries, as the regions which offer the most efficiencient economies see the highest highest levels of wealth. Currently Manitoba slunks around with a high tax low investment government policy. If Manitoba wants to increase its output per capita it needs to modernize its economy... through capital investment.

[spiritedenergy]

Originally Posted by newflyer

In order to turn Manitoba into a "have province" it is necessary in incourage capital investment. Since GDP per capita is directly related to productivity per capita, it is imparitive that capital investment is encouraged in order to increase productivity.

For those of you who haven't been keeping up on the tax policies of Manitoba .. Manitoba is one of the few remaining jurisdictions which penalizes and discourages companies which want to invest in new capital. (ie: machines, technology, modern equipment and buildings)

While this as other taxes increase government revenue over the short term it cripples an economy over the longer term, as its capital base falls further and further behind.

I saw a very interesting feature on business investment, which discribed the type of new warehouses are being built. They are larger, which much higher cieling hieghts, able to dock larger trucks with larger capacities. They are much more automated than older buildings. They newer warehouses make it much more efficient to load and unload larger loads of goods. Buildings which don't meet the newer demands of the transportaion industry are being left behind.

While this is just an example of the capital demands of a particular industry, you can see how imparitive it is for a province to encourage capital investment to keep its competitive edge. It is similar across the board.. all indutsries are continually modernizing and creating efficiences. If Manitoba discourages its business base from investing in modern capital it won't have a very efficient economy.. thus have a lower productivity level per capita.. realitive to other economies.

Manitoba needs to focus on improving its efficiencies. This is not a new concept, as its been around for centuries, as the regions which offer the most efficiencient economies see the highest highest levels of wealth. Currently Manitoba slunks around with a high tax low investment government policy. If Manitoba wants to increase its output per capita it needs to modernize its economy... through capital investment.

this still doesn't answer our questions... when the conservatives were in power, how did Manitoba perform in economy and everything? I have been told that conservatives in this province have been a doom.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

but weren't the 90ies when Manitoba went really down, and weren't the conservative in power at the time? I'm missing something maybe...

If you mean taking Manitoba from an outhouse economy with high deficit spending to one which had a balanced budget and a respectibe reserve fund. Thats what the concervatives have done.

The NDP has run deficits every year since taking over... and have since spent the reserve fund, during so called good years and raped Hydro out of its reserve fund as well.

As far as of scanavian exampes go... Sweden's economy is horrible.. Norway is only viable due to oil and Denmark has made massive tax cuts in order to be competive. Its not even close to some type of socilaist utopia. Its more of a developing capitalist economy.

Socialism died about 50 years ago.. get with the times.

[1ajs]

mining was are back bone for a long time i been told the concervitives killed the mining industry in this province........

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by newflyer

If you mean taking Manitoba from an outhouse economy with high deficit spending to one which had a balanced budget and a respectibe reserve fund. Thats what the concervatives have done.

The NDP has run deficits every year since taking over... and have since spent the reserve fund, during so called good years and raped Hydro out of its reserve fund as well.

As far as of scanavian exampes go... Sweden's economy is horrible.. Norway is only viable due to oil and Denmark has made massive tax cuts in order to be competive. Its not even close to some type of socilaist utopia. Its more of a developing capitalist economy.

Socialism died about 50 years ago.. get with the times.

you can't just go slashing taxs though like that or you fuckig things up even more

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

this still doesn't answer our questions... when the conservatives were in power, how did Manitoba perform in economy and everything? I have been told that conservatives in this province have been a doom.

The Manitoba conservative movement has been very Liberal in nature. They haven't done much in terms of introducing conservative policies, which have been responsible to incredible growth in Ontario and BC.

The result of having a non-conservative Conservative Party is it has eleminated the Liberals from the Manitoba House for the most part, but has kept Manitoba is the dark ages in terms of economic polies.

[spiritedenergy]

Originally Posted by newflyer

If you mean taking Manitoba from an outhouse economy with high deficit spending to one which had a balanced budget and a respectibe reserve fund. Thats what the concervatives have done.

The NDP has run deficits every year since taking over... and have since spent the reserve fund, during so called good years and raped Hydro out of its reserve fund as well.

As far as of scanavian exampes go... Sweden's economy is horrible.. Norway is only viable due to oil and Denmark has made massive tax cuts in order to be competive. Its not even close to some type of socilaist utopia. Its more of a developing capitalist economy.

Socialism died about 50 years ago.. get with the times.

you don't tell my what to vote, that's for sure. my ideology is communism and socialism, i want people to be equal, i want Adam Smith's theories to be disregarded since they're bringing the whole world to a painful end. what's the matter in having more money, then investing them to have more money, then investing them again... while all natural resources are exploited, we should stop this foolishness.

and you're so wrong about Sweden and northern Europe, their GDP per capita is far higher then wild capitalist Canada, and their quality of life is hundred times better.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

you can't just go slashing taxs though like that or you fuckig things up even more

Oh really???... go tell that to Irland.. Denamrk .. New Zealand. All former socalist economies which were sucking air.. turned capitalist and now see much stronger growth. Infact Irland is seen by many as a model of how it is possible to turn an economy around.


Lowering taxes increases economic growth.. this is just fact.

[psych1]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Ugh. Please don't ever confuse fiscal conservatives with neocons. Neocons basically ARE big and intrusive government (combined with a healthy dose of social conservatism).

Let me introduce you to my good friend, Libertarianism. He's far more at home in Calgary than any neocon (or any socialist, for that matter).

Yes, I am aware of libertarianism. My impression is, that much like Socialism, Libertarianism is an ideology which looks good on paper, because it simplifies human experience into something which can be easily understood, but I don't believe life is that simple. Simplistic political ideologies are no better than simplistic religious belief, and I don't think it is happenstance that the two often coincide. I apologize for the unintended neocon slur, but my opinion of political discourse or lack thereof in Calgary stands.

[spiritedenergy]

Originally Posted by newflyer

The Manitoba conservative movement has been very Liberal in nature. They haven't done much in terms of introducing conservative policies, which have been responsible to incredible growth in Ontario and BC.

The result of having a non-conservative Conservative Party is it has eleminated the Liberals from the Manitoba House for the most part, but has kept Manitoba is the dark ages in terms of economic polies.

so that's what my point is, it's way better NDP then PC

[1ajs]

umm irlands econimy is atm tanking................... due to minum wage being jacked up

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by spiritedenergy

so that's what my point, it's way better NDP the PC

Oh man, can somebody please get this guy a bowl of Borscht..