Economy Thread

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

Umm, don't blame the government for not giving Diamond money. Diamond doesn't have a right to our tax money. There is good reason they didn't get money. I have done business with Diamond before and let's just say - I had a hard time getting payment from them. Why don't they borrow the money from their billionaire owner instead of our government?

I am in the same situation, company I work for currently does business and did quite a bit with Diamond in the past and I can vouch for this. Their company as a whole is rather unorganized, they do not know how to buy things, their payment pattern is poor at best.....plus how many loans have they been given in the past??

Certainly on one hand living in London I would absolutely love to see Diamond get the money and more importantly actually be successful for them and the city of London. However personally and from a business sense would have a hard time giving them money based on past and current history.

[Snark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

This is terrible news. Goddamn Harper and his party of Cons. yet again shortchanging the forest city.

Best to say nothing. The camps in Nunavut are coming for all of the dissenters.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

This is terrible news. Goddamn Harper and his party of Cons. yet again shortchanging the forest city.

So the government denies funding to a private business. What responsibility do they have to prop up inefficient private enterprises with public money? If Diamond aircraft was a crown corporation I would still be annoyed, but extending loans to them is actually administratively acceptable.

And on another note, the Province is responsible for municipalities, so technically our friend McGuinty would be the one short-changing us.

[MolsonExport]

^fair enough. But it seems as though London gets less Federal dollars than our sister cities of Windsor, and the four-headed monster (KWC-G). Christ, our manufacturing base has been devastated over the past 3 years and we still have the closure of the Ford plant to look forward to.

I am definitely not advocating throwing good money after the bad. I am just a bit frustrated by what I perceive as our city constantly being passed over (feeling like Fredo in Godfather II). Also, Diamond is very closely connected to our unit at UWO, so it hits closer to home.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I am definitely not advocating throwing good money after the bad. I am just a bit frustrated by what I perceive as our city constantly being passed over

Again, I would not mind a loan to the city to help build the L-Train or the LRR. A cost matching scheme would be even better. But it is the bank's business to loan to private companies, and unless the company holds something of strategic national interest the federal government should not be involved at all.

Where we definitely are being passed over is in public works investment. I think part of the problem might be that London didn't have its act together at any point in the past decade. Anne Marie was no visionary and definitely a very poor long-term planner, we had an anti-development council and as a result the city was stagnating. I think the feds just thought that their money would be better spent elsewhere. If Joe Fontana and the new-ish council turn out to be a decent performers, the current government may re-evaluate its position. After all, Harper would want to hold on to his two London seats.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by Wharn

I think part of the problem might be that London didn't have its act together at any point in the past decade.

What he said.

[new age]

Originally Posted by Wharn

So the government denies funding to a private business. What responsibility do they have to prop up inefficient private enterprises with public money? If Diamond aircraft was a crown corporation I would still be annoyed, but extending loans to them is actually administratively acceptable.

This is just 35 million to through away on Lockheed Martin's R&D, it's the same situation. The government spends money on private businesses all the time. In many cases with no concern for projects budget or viability, e.g. F35.

So which plane do you want your money wasted on more, because they're still giving money to Lockheed Martin.

[Highinthesky]

Does anyone in here realize that Diamond already got around 20 million from the feds for this project and couldn't put it together? How does that demonstrate that giving them an additional 30 something million would be a good idea?

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by Highinthesky

Does anyone in here realize that Diamond already got around 20 million from the feds for this project and couldn't put it together? How does that demonstrate that giving them an additional 30 something million would be a good idea?

I do...and pretty sure it has not been repaid (not sure exactly what type of "loan" it was however).

To me it seems like no matter how much money they get they will not get the new plane off the ground.

[manny_santos]

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../18282161.html

Bell has chosen London, of all places, as a place to cut 125 jobs. Guess where the jobs are moving? Toronto, the proverbial black hole of the Ontario economy.

London does not need this. Shame on Bell.

Toronto is looking more and more like a land of riches where Ontario's Preferred Citizens live, while the rest of Ontario suffers.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

[Bell has chosen London, of all places, as a place to cut 125 jobs. Guess where the jobs are moving? Toronto, the proverbial black hole of the Ontario economy.

London does not need this. Shame on Bell.

Toronto is looking more and more like a land of riches where Ontario's Preferred Citizens live, while the rest of Ontario suffers.

What's the rest of Ontario? Past Milton is a bunch of farms, lakes, forests and a couple tiny, crumbling "ghetto" manufacturing cities right? Nothing much important there.

Toronto is the only place to be!



What a shame though. More office space left vacant in the core, and good jobs lost.

[bolognium]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

What's the rest of Ontario? Past Milton is a bunch of farms, lakes, forests and a couple tiny, crumbling "ghetto" manufacturing cities right? Nothing much important there.

Kinda, actually.

I mean, we are still debating our position on backyard chickens.

[MolsonExport]

Crap. We need some good economic news. How long are we going to bleed jobs?

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Toronto is the only place to be!

Hardly. The place is miserable; congested, expensive and overcrowded. The transportation system, as a ratio to the overall population, is even shittier than London's. Sure, the rush hour traffic in London may move at 30 km/h, but at least it moves. Considering the economic loss that results from the said congestion and stress induced by it, I don't know why more companies attempt to cut their overhead by taking the route of GWL Insurance and locating in smaller centres like Winnipeg.

I feel sorry for the Bell workers, either way this thing pans out (lose their jobs or move to Toronto) they will face an overall decline in quality of life.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Hardly. The place is miserable; congested, expensive and overcrowded. The transportation system, as a ratio to the overall population, is even shittier than London's. Sure, the rush hour traffic in London may move at 30 km/h, but at least it moves.

I still find Toronto easier to drive in than London at times. In fact I spoke to a guy today from Huron County who prefers driving in Toronto over driving in London.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I still find Toronto easier to drive in than London at times. In fact I spoke to a guy today from Huron County who prefers driving in Toronto over driving in London.

Unless his exposure was limited to Finch or Midland Avenues, I would have to strongly disagree. Once you're away from the splendid isolation of East Scarberia, any north-south route that crosses the city without discontinuities is a guaranteed solid column of traffic. Sure, Toronto is easier to navigate outside of rush hour, but honestly it's rush hour all day long, you can never escape it.

[Simpseatles]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Hardly. The place is miserable; congested, expensive and overcrowded. The transportation system, as a ratio to the overall population, is even shittier than London's. Sure, the rush hour traffic in London may move at 30 km/h, but at least it moves. Considering the economic loss that results from the said congestion and stress induced by it, I don't know why more companies attempt to cut their overhead by taking the route of GWL Insurance and locating in smaller centres like Winnipeg.

I feel sorry for the Bell workers, either way this thing pans out (lose their jobs or move to Toronto) they will face an overall decline in quality of life.

I was joking of course, but saying that someone "will face an overall decline in quality of life" for moving to Toronto seems like a bit of a stretch! Then again I've never lived there, but could picture myself being quite happy living there for a short period of time.

[Simpseatles]

I think I'll just post a link to this article.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2.../18289071.html

My favourite part is this:

"As an example, Fontana said the full development of the Hwy. 401/402 corridor and turning Veterans Memorial Parkway into a true expressway would eventually spur two million square feet of commercial/industrial development, creating 27,000 jobs"

Really. After Fontana just makes huge announcements about turning VMP/401 into a Parclo interchange, which would require traffic lights, he announces he wants to make VMP into a full freeway!

Well I guess this is some good economic...talk, anyways.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Wharn

Unless his exposure was limited to Finch or Midland Avenues, I would have to strongly disagree. Once you're away from the splendid isolation of East Scarberia, any north-south route that crosses the city without discontinuities is a guaranteed solid column of traffic. Sure, Toronto is easier to navigate outside of rush hour, but honestly it's rush hour all day long, you can never escape it.

His brother lives in Downtown Toronto.

[Wharn]

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

I was joking of course, but saying that someone "will face an overall decline in quality of life" for moving to Toronto seems like a bit of a stretch! Then again I've never lived there, but could picture myself being quite happy living there for a short period of time.

Assuming income remains constant, the increased costs associated with housing and commuting would contribute to a decline in quality of life. Of course, that does not account for other things such as the large variety of services or the fantastic park system.

Originally Posted by Simpseatles

Really. After Fontana just makes huge announcements about turning VMP/401 into a Parclo interchange, which would require traffic lights, he announces he wants to make VMP into a full freeway!

It's nice to see that he has part of the VMP project straight... too bad the end of a "true expressway" would just be a Highbury clone. Unless this is hot air, it is definitely a step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

His brother lives in Downtown Toronto.

Interesting, IMHO traffic in downtown Toronto is way worse than anything London can offer, but that being said it still cannot compete with some of the crosstown arterials.