The future of Hamilton's public transit

[SteelTown]

Mohawk is suppose to have a single transit terminal facing Fennell. Perhaps they'll work on the terminal once the new Fennell campus building is complete. The City has reserved the money for years and Mohawk is suppose to chip in with funding as well.

The amount is the same for the cost of building the Eastgate terminal.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

Not all students get OSAP. As a matter of fact most students don't get OSAP especially if they live with their parents. I could never get it when I was in university. I made too much in the various jobs I had while in school. I know I wouldn't appreciate paying for something that would be totally useless, considering that money was comming out of my pocket. I would pay that money for parking though. When I was at Mac it used to cost me $60 per year for parking. I think bus passes back then were 20 or 25 dollars per month.

So bus riders should pay $500 so that drivers can save $120? What?

[mdsweet]

Obviously I'm newer, but is bigguy just an obvious troll or am I mistaken?

[emge]

Nah, he has some helpful history and input from time to time.... and is honest with his opinions.

As far as I can tell, he's exactly what he claims to be - a long-term resident of Hamilton, who holds opinions he believes the majority of Hamilton residents also share.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by emge

Nah, he has some helpful history and input from time to time.... and is honest with his opinions.

As far as I can tell, he's exactly what he claims to be - a long-term resident of Hamilton, who holds opinions he believes the majority of Hamilton residents also share.

Understandable, but I would ask him to realize that this referendum on Mohawk Bus Passes strictly looked at the opinion of Mohawk Students.

Was there some opposition to the measure? Yes, but out of 8000+ full-time students, only 900 and change voted against the pass? Simply put, they're in the minority, and if you don't vote, then you can't whine later on.

It was simply the question of if students would want to save $100s of dollars in parking fees, fuel, and wear-and-tear on their vehicles if they could sacrifice extra time by taking transit.

The answer was yes, but almost 2/3rds majority to boot.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

So bus riders should pay $500 so that drivers can save $120? What?

Thats not what I said. I have no problem with students getting a good deal for using public transit if they choose to do so. My objection is with it being manditory. Why should someone who lives within walking distance have to subsidize transportation for someone else. Why should someone who wants to use their car, have to subsidize those who choose to take public transit. As far as I am concerned the students association has no business mandating fees for off campus services.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by emge

Nah, he has some helpful history and input from time to time.... and is honest with his opinions.

As far as I can tell, he's exactly what he claims to be - a long-term resident of Hamilton, who holds opinions he believes the majority of Hamilton residents also share.

Thanks, you got most of it right.

However, I don't necessarily hold the opinions that I sometimes present. I have been involved in politics and public service in this city off and on for over 30 years on a voluntary basis. I am pretty good at reading public opinion. Alot of the time I am just stating what I know the majority is going to say or how they are going to react to certain situations.

I do that to temper the enthusiasm some of you show towards certain subjects, not to discourage you but to bring you back to reality. Just because some of the people here want something to happen doesn't mean it's going to happen the way you want it to.

In this city, nothing is what it appears to be, especially when it comes to city hall.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by mdsweet

Obviously I'm newer, but is bigguy just an obvious troll or am I mistaken?

So if it's not your way it's the highway. Get out of mommy's basement, learn a little about the world. There are opinions on all sides of an issue. Life would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything.

[mdsweet]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

So if it's not your way it's the highway. Get out of mommy's basement, learn a little about the world. There are opinions on all sides of an issue. Life would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything.

Last thing I want is to get personal. As I said, I'm getting the lay of the land, and thus far I haven't seen much from you other than immediately dumping on ideas. Its an internet comment board, trolls are common, and if you aren't one I'm glad.
I am well aware that there's more to the story than nice ideas. There's alot of hard work that follows from the idea if it's to become successful. Part of that work is convincing people in this city that the status quo isn't working, business as usual won't get us anywhere new, and something dramatic has to happen to shake up this city. I'm certainly not saying that a shiny transit system will cure all our ills. It's a start. The challenge is to follow up with a clear idea of the end goal, whether or not the first big step is light rail or something else.
And for the record, mummy hasn't paid any of my bills in quite a few years.

[Jon Dalton]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

Thats not what I said. I have no problem with students getting a good deal for using public transit if they choose to do so. My objection is with it being manditory. Why should someone who lives within walking distance have to subsidize transportation for someone else. Why should someone who wants to use their car, have to subsidize those who choose to take public transit.

Because we live in a society.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

Because we live in a society.

...and because people who want to use transit have to subsidize people who choose to drive all the time.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by highwater

...and because people who want to use transit have to subsidize people who choose to drive all the time.

and that subsidy is A LOT higher than the other way around.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by highwater

...and because people who want to use transit have to subsidize people who choose to drive all the time.

That may be so, but there are more people driving than using public transit. Ask those drivers what they want their tax dollars spent on. It won't be on public transit. The tax dollars are spent where the majority wants them spent. If politicians felt spending money on public transit would win them elections, we would have the best transit system around.

[mdsweet]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

If politicians felt spending money on public transit would win them elections, we would have the best transit system around.

Here we arrive at the sad reality, in particular in Hamilton, where political will is limited to job security for said polititions. If our leaders would lead, one wonders where we'd be.

[SteelTown]

That's why I support an independent HSR transit commission. We should have professionals selecting routes and improvements instead of politicians having the final word.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

That may be so, but there are more people driving than using public transit. Ask those drivers what they want their tax dollars spent on. It won't be on public transit. The tax dollars are spent where the majority wants them spent. If politicians felt spending money on public transit would win them elections, we would have the best transit system around.

The problem is the subsidies to drivers are so massive and hidden, that most people are ignorant of them, or they simply accept them as normal and don't see them as subsidies at all, yet any public investment in other forms of transportation is demonized as a 'subsidy'.

So you're saying that instead of educating the public and reframing the debate so we can have an intelligent discussion about sustainable future transportation systems, we just poll all the drivers and wallow in ignorance as Europe and Asia pass us by. I'm sorry that you've given up, but the status quo is economic suicide. Minds are going to have to change sooner or later.

[SteelTown]

Mohawk students would get big HSR break
City transportation plan calls for fewer cars - more buses, bikes

March 22, 2010
Dana Brown
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/740473

Mohawk College students will pay a lot less for bus transportation under a new plan being looked at by city councillors.

McMaster University, Redeemer University College, and students at the Mohawk/McMaster Institute for Applied Health Sciences are already covered under the University/College Transit Pass program.

It provides students with a pass for a fraction of regular rates.

The current cost for undergraduates is $102.70, which covers the eight-month academic year.

That compares to $87 it costs for a monthly adult pass.

In September, when 8,500 Mohawk students join the program, the cost will increase to $121.80 for the academic year as part of a pre-arranged hike.

"It kind of rounds out all the major post-secondary institutions in Hamilton," said Paul Thompson, manager of fare administration and ATS with the city.

"I think we're one of the few cities in Canada who could say that. And we expect it'll have both positive ridership and hopefully some good revenue impacts."

City staff estimate the new enrollments will generate about $940,000 in revenue. Not all of that will be new, however, as many students currently ride the HSR and pay regular rates.

Alan Griffiths, president of the Mohawk Students' Association, said last year a group of students formed a club to raise awareness about the pass. They worked with the association and together were successful in getting enough petition signatures for a referendum.

More than 35 per cent of students voted -- the highest turnout ever experienced in a referendum -- and about 60 per cent supported joining the program.

"We hope students that have the ability to take public transportation or use active transportation to get to school will pick up this pass - will use it, will stop driving," Griffiths said.

He said there have been complaints from students who commute and buy a parking pass. The association is working with the school to offer a discount for them.

Mohawk's inclusion in the plan is in the process of getting approval from city council.

[drpgq]

Does the city publish HSR ridership numbers anywhere?

[Bureaucromancer]

Has there been any real discussion about mountain access for the A-Line yet?

Honestly, none of the options look great at this point. My biggest question is what would be the viability of closing James Mountain Road for a transit corridor? Widening doesn't look like an option, nothing else is even in vaguely the right place and a tunnel seems unlikely with funding as it is (and I wonder if the James route isn't better than a straight shot tunnel like ICTS was going to have anyway, which would miss Mohawk College)... How much might it change the equations about James Mountain if the connection from 5th to the Clarence access could be made two way?

[SteelTown]

The EA will deal with the tunnel issue for the A-Line. The EA has begun already. We should know by the end of the year what the final plan is.

Personally I don't understand why they just don't consider building an above track along the Escarpment from James St to West 5th.