MEMPHIS | Development News

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

If you read what I've said, I am for development. I'm not against taxpayer financed public facilities. But I'm not for spending like a drunken sailor just because a project seems cool.

Didn't Memphis just spend $215 million on a Pyramid redevelopment plan? And did the city not just spend hundreds of millions the decade prior to build FedEx Forum?

Right now isn't the time to make another $500 million investment in a convention center in my judgment. It is bad timing for the public purse. There are other priorities worth investing in, and if you had a $100-125 million streetcar modernization and expansion project, the city would only foot about $25-30 million for it. Better bang for the buck by far as all transit upgrades and lines tend to attract development dollars and sustainable long term property tax collections from the new developments. Even though Madison Ave corridor is well developed, it has room for improvement, and a good model to look at is Cleveland, OH. The Healthline BRT (similar to a streetcar service) spawned $5.8 billion in development:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcma...nd-streetcars/

Its a similar corridor to Madison in that its already developed, but with serious transit it redeveloped much of the area with more condos and businesses. Long term benefits and better tax base for the city.

I'm in the job market, and I've found absolutely nothing in Nashville since the end of this summer. If I end up staying in Tennessee, I am confident I'll probably end up in Memphis as I've lived there before and always thought it had more character than anywhere else in the state. This Nashville job market hype is well overstated and the prices for living in the city are also well overstated now.

You are right about Memphis, it has a soul while Nashville seems contrived and manufactured like most of it's music these days. But...I can enjoy a trip to Nashville from time to time.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

Didn't Memphis just spend $215 million on a Pyramid redevelopment plan?And did the city not just spend hundreds of millions the decade prior to build FedEx Forum?

No.

The Forum was $250 million; which is a pretty good investment, imo.

Right now isn't the time to make another $500 million investment in a convention center in my judgment. There are other priorities worth investing in, and if you had a $100-125 million streetcar modernization and expansion project, the city would only foot about $25-30 million for it. Better bang for the buck by far as all transit upgrades and lines tend to attract development dollars and sustainable long term property tax collections from the new developments.

I don't understand why you're running from the new convention center vs. remodeling the Cook to this transit argument which no one here is debating.

[Dr Nevergold]

^You aren't reading my posts apparently. If you spend $500 million or more on a new convention center, I fail to see how the city of Memphis can afford a transit expansion or many other projects for the next while. At least, not without exorbitant property tax increases.

If we had a limitless cash pit, I'd say build a billion dollar convention center, a billion dollar rail network, and a billion dollar redevelopment fund to entice downtown construction.

That's not very realistic. That's the point. It isn't an argument at all, I consider it sharing opinions and ideas. You're presenting a viewpoint that a massive investment in the convention center should be made and that's about it... Its fine to say things like this, but I don't see how Memphis can afford it given recent history.

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by arkitekte

No.

The Forum was $250 million; which is a pretty good investment, imo.



I don't understand why you're running from the new convention center vs. remodeling the Cook to this transit argument which no one here is debating.

The Forum is a fantastic srena for what it cost. Memphis got it's money's worth for it. Quite honestly there's not much better out there. It helps that hockey wasn't a major consideration so the end seating is much closer to the basketball court. I was in it for the Pearl Jam concert. I will say that they need to get rid of the 4:3 flat screens in the upper level suite concourse in favor of larger 16:9 HDTVs.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

^You aren't reading my posts apparently. If you spend $500 million or more on a new convention center, I fail to see how the city of Memphis can afford a transit expansion or many other projects for the next while. At least, not without exorbitant property tax increases.

You're ignoring this and either you've read the point, or you're choosing to ignore the point.

If we had a limitless cash pit, I'd say build a billion dollar convention center, a billion dollar rail network, and a billion dollar redevelopment fund to entice downtown construction.

That's not very realistic. That's the point.

If we're talking about what's realistic the City isn't considering transit expansion; especially that in the form of light rail. What they are considering or at least trying to decide on is new convention space vs. redeveloping the Cook, which I've explained why the best bet for the future would be to build new, not throw $50 million into carpet and toilets only to see that go toward nothing.

[Dr Nevergold]

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...transformation

Memphis City Council OKs $215 million to finance Pyramid-Bass Pro deal, buy convention center

In regards to the fact you can't understand why I'm entertaining ideas outside what the city has been talking about, I didn't realize you thought this discussion was limited to only what the city has announced support for. If that's what you think, open the box up and think outside that box. LOL

This is a 3rd party forum, this isn't a city owned property where the discussion is limited to what only the city is considering at the time.

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by arkitekte

^The Forum's no compete clause might have some objections to that. A multi purpose convention center is good, but a 60,000+ stadium within it isn't justifiable, IMO.

Never said 60,000 plus. Playing surface is the same thus exhibition space is the same, no matter what the size of the stadium is. The football stadium doesn't have to come close to Atlanta or Dallas swanky, but a well thought out 55,000 seater with ample loge style seating and suites would help make up revenue gaps from reduced capacity. It may not get them to the upper tier bowls but could helps it clime a rung or two on the pecking order ladder. Some things just require larger space and who says that the Grizzly facility management team couldn't also manage this for those types of events to help overcome such objections. By the time Memphis throws 10 million here and 12 million there to keep the current Liberty Bowl just barely acceptable, they could just as easily thrown that toward what I propose. Memphis isn't getting an NFL team, but it could host early season invitationals with nationally ranked high school powerhouse football programs in made for tv events. My nephew played at Shiloh up here(school that gave the SEC world Gus Malzahn). They played a nationally televised game against Euless Trinity at ATT stadium. It was no where full but 15,000 folks for a high school game buys a few concessions. With Memphis' fake wrestling history, maybe a WrestleMania finds it's way here. Who knows. but it wouldn't be just for 8 football games.

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by arkitekte

If we're talking about what's realistic the City isn't considering transit expansion; especially that in the form of light rail. What they are considering or at least trying to decide on is new convention space vs. redeveloping the Cook, which I've explained why the best bet for the future would be to build new, not throw $50 million into carpet and toilets only to see that go toward nothing.

While we are talking transit here, does anyone have clue how successful the direct line from Minny's airport to Mall of America has been. I know MoA is undergoing bigtime expansion. Not that it matters for Memphis since Minny is still a hub with folks getting stuck with lengthy layovers sometimes.

Supposedly Southwest is releasing the after April 6th flight schedule on Mon, wonder what it holds for Memphis.

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

You are right about Memphis, it has a soul while Nashville seems contrived and manufactured like most of it's music these days. But...I can enjoy a trip to Nashville from time to time.

I don't think Nashville is a contrived city, but despite the condo boom they've experienced over the past several years, its got a lot of flaws. After my experience in the job market for the past while, I have a hard time understanding how this condo boom can be sustained. Most jobs advertised pay very low wages, yet I'm being told of this magical, booming job market.

In so far as music, country makes my head hurt. Older stuff like Johnny Cash I can handle, because many of those songs have connections to the working poor and respect for average people. Newer country lost that meaning, and it sounds hysterical. The whining, moaning voices. Even 80's synth-pop country is far superior to this junk today.

I rest my case. However, Nashville is a fine city that will continue to be fine if it makes some better choices going forward.

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

While we are talking transit here, does anyone have clue how successful the direct line from Minny's airport to Mall of America has been. I know MoA is undergoing bigtime expansion. Not that it matters for Memphis since Minny is still a hub with folks getting stuck with lengthy layovers sometimes.

Supposedly Southwest is releasing the after April 6th flight schedule on Mon, wonder what it holds for Memphis.

This might be my last post for the evening, getting kind of tired on here... Ironically I was just in Minneapolis in September and rode the entire system. The Blue Line (to the airport) is very successful, the Green line (to St Paul) is very new.

Wikipedia says over 30k users a day use the Blue Line, which is a good starting point.

[kingchef]

#3081...i agree w/ the dr. who really outlines the narrow issue about spending in pilot projects. perhaps, there are more than a few who are not in favor of paid pilots, but piolots have been explained over and over by those who actually know about what they speak. the shelby county mayor made a good argument about the use of piolot projects about a year ago. some came back that nashville diidn't have to use them, and therefore, blamed memphis for using them. every city uses them, even in different disbursements.
the real issue to watch w/ some of these companies, especially the smaller ones, need to be watched and squelched, if they are takng advantage of what they ask for in funding, and what they actually receive. some of these constructions have 1 to 300 million price tags, unlike waggoner place, now asking for money for a pilot fund of approximately 2.7 million. i thought when that business office for winn delta was begun, it was because their was a plan to send 7 million dollars for thier office project. now they come asking for pilot relief money. this, in my opinion, is a bad decision on their fault. i asked a number of times in this forum why they would be building a small business office on the property that a developer owned, in the first place, and turn around and build a 7 million dollar office building, while knowing that it would have to be demolished, assuming that one beale had virtually been promised of the property. some of the entities are going to abuse the system, whether publicly or privately.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

The Forum is a fantastic srena for what it cost. Memphis got it's money's worth for it. Quite honestly there's not much better out there. It helps that hockey wasn't a major consideration so the end seating is much closer to the basketball court. I was in it for the Pearl Jam concert. I will say that they need to get rid of the 4:3 flat screens in the upper level suite concourse in favor of larger 16:9 HDTVs.

They're (the Grizzlies) are supposedly replacing the tv's soon. They're also supposed to be working the kinks out with the WiFi. Just on a side note since you mentioned hockey, if you search "Barclays Center Hockey Seating" you'll see how poorly the sight lines are there. I want to go to an Isles game there just to see how bad some of the sight lines are.

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...transformation

In regards to the fact you can't understand why I'm entertaining ideas outside what the city has been talking about, I didn't realize you thought this discussion was limited to only what the city has announced support for. If that's what you think, open the box up and think outside that box. LOL

This is a 3rd party forum, this isn't a city owned property where the discussion is limited to what only the city is considering at the time.

Did you read that article? That $215 million wasn't for just the Pyramid.

Also, if you're going to argue one point, be specific with that and don't jump all over the wide scope of what the city can do with money (you serious jumped from convention space to high rises to transportation to funding schools and police stations when I specifically replied to your points about convention space). It looks like you're running from the topic you brought up. I enjoy all of the conversation here and enjoy reading other individual's standpoints and ideas. I get caught up in a "what's logical" mindset due to my background and training so it's good to hear out of the box ideas from people who might not work directly in development services/architecture/planning.

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

Supposedly Southwest is releasing the after April 6th flight schedule on Mon, wonder what it holds for Memphis.

Looking forward to this.

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by arkitekte

They're (the Grizzlies) are supposedly replacing the tv's soon. They're also supposed to be working the kinks out with the WiFi. Just on a side note since you mentioned hockey, if you search "Barclays Center Hockey Seating" you'll see how poorly the sight lines are there. I want to go to an Isles game there just to see how bad some of the sight lines are.



Did you read that article? That $215 million wasn't for just the Pyramid.

Also, if you're going to argue one point, be specific with that and don't jump all over the wide scope of what the city can do with money (you serious jumped from convention space to high rises to transportation to funding schools and police stations when I specifically replied to your points about convention space). It looks like you're running from the topic you brought up. I enjoy all of the conversation here and enjoy reading other individual's standpoints and ideas. I get caught up in a "what's logical" mindset due to my background and training so it's good to hear out of the box ideas from people who might not work directly in development services/architecture/planning.




Looking forward to this.

Supposedly there's some hints of new bunny hop routes, Would love to see a STL-Mem-New Orleans version. Call it the River Express. That's never going to happen.

[Dr Nevergold]

^^As I said before, this discussion is about sharing ideas. Me or you have zero effective power as we're not Memphis politicians, so its just a conversation.

I have to admit I think what I've said is more clear on face value and shouldn't be that hard to understand, I've linked these other issues to the Convention Center concept in terms of what money is available. I know that a streetcar revamp isn't on the table right now, but what I'm saying is that if so much money isn't spent on a new convention center, there is room for other priorities. How can this be interpreted from running away from an issue? I don't get what you're saying there my friend.

At the end of the day its immaterial, we have no effective power. I don't even live in Memphis, neither do you anymore. But as someone who returned to the state this year, I'm paying more attention to these issues and would hate to see wasted opportunity. A new convention center project right now would suck so much energy out of other potential items that need attention in Memphis. Maybe Memphis could re-visit a convention center rebuild/new facility in 2025-2030 time frame.

Don't forget the Pittsburgh example I mentioned, its a city that took on too many projects too quickly and it literally made the city insolvent. They did two stadiums and a mega convention center (which is larger than the Music City Center) all at once in the late 90's/early 00's. Allegheny County and Pittsburgh also was coming off the building of a mega-hub airport that opened in 1992, just a decade previous. Cities do have the potential to over-extend themselves.

You or anyone else is 100% free to disagree, I have no hard feelings. I repeat, this is just a conversation with ideas.

[arkitekte]

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

Supposedly there's some hints of new bunny hop routes, Would love to see a STL-Mem-New Orleans version. Call it the River Express. That's never going to happen.

I'd like to see this as well. One thing I've noticed is while prices from MEM have dropped significantly in the past 18 or so months, the prices to MEM are still pretty high, at least for me. Now that I'm in Texas I'm really wishing Southwest would have added those MEM-DAL routes so I could fly Southwest from SAT to MEM connecting at Love instead of Hobby or Midway, which are usually more expensive and the schedules are garbage. It's gotten to the point to where I have so many miles on Delta I don't really want to fly another carrier because I'll lose my medallion status, but I would for sure take advantage of the cheaper Southwest fares to MEM for a few Tigers sports weekends.

Due to where my folks live it's just as easy to fly to BNA as it is MEM (much cheaper still and the Southwest and Delta fairs are pretty much the same price).

Originally Posted by Dr Nevergold

You or anyone else is 100% free to disagree, I have no hard feelings. I repeat, this is just a conversation with ideas.

[MEMFLY]

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian

Supposedly there's some hints of new bunny hop routes, Would love to see a STL-Mem-New Orleans version. Call it the River Express. That's never going to happen.

Interesting. I'm hoping for something out west as I travel to San Fran/Sacramento about once a year and the prices are always very high.

[DoomJ]

Recent updates:

Highland Row
http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...w.html?ana=twt

Indianapolis-based Milhaus has applied for a nearly $6.8 million permit to build three retail spaces and 69 apartments at 387 S. Highland St., public records show.

The permit, which is for a four-story structure, is the second pulled so far by Milhaus. The first, $20 million permit was for construction of apartments.

Milhaus still plans to pull permits to build a parking garage and 35 townhouses by the end of 2014, as I reported in October.

Main to Main - Harahan Bridge
http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...an-bridge.html

Contractor OCCI Inc. is projected to finish the renovation to the bridge, which will become a bicycle and pedestrian path known as Big River Crossing, in 18 months. OCCI's contract is for $17.5 million, with the balance going to Main to Main approached and soft costs.

The bridge is the "centerpiece" of the Main to Main Multi-Modal Connector Project in Downtown Memphis, and couldn't have happened without collaboration between all of the parties involved, said Downtown Memphis Commission president Paul Morris.

New Local Retail on Broad - "City & State"
http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news...g-independent/

“We originally intended to start this online and baby step our way into this business,” Toro said of City & State, a venture that will be a kind of modern-day general store carrying men’s and women’s clothing, home goods, accessories and double as an apothecary, among other things. “But we were driving around town, we drove down Broad, and I saw that building and literally fel l in love with it.”

“That building” would be a reference to the 2,700-square-foot space set to open, according to the Toros’ current schedule, at the beginning of March. Toro, a veteran of places like Hilton and the Web design firm RocketFuel, said she’s been kicking around the idea for a while, something having to do with a platform to support makers and artisans and give them a place to congregate, sell and build a community – local retail, with a retro touch.

Firm proposes Net Zero building on Downtown lot
http://www.commercialappeal.com/busi...n-lot_87248136

It looks like bombed out ruins of a recent war, not the prospective home of cutting-edge real estate development in Downtown Memphis’s up-and-coming South Main district.

If a developer’s plans pan out, the sloping, gouged landscape at Main and Carolina will give way to a model of environmental sustainability, an energy-efficient office building that turns a profit off rooftop solar panels.

[arkitekte]

Historic Brewery Sold and Ready for Development
http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news...r-development/

The long-vacant Tennessee Brewery Downtown has been sold for $825,000 and could soon see new life.

The Tennessee Brewery LLC sold the shuttered brewery at 495 Tennessee St. to 495 Tennessee LLC, according to a Nov. 5 warranty deed filed with the Shelby County Register of Deeds office.

The buyer is affiliated with Billy Orgel, president of cell phone tower development firm Tower Ventures.

The redeveloped building would likely have apartments with commercial space on the ground floor, possibly for a restaurant or microbrewery, according to the report. The large courtyard inside the property probably would be turned into a community gathering place.

Following this summer’s successful Untapped event, which activated the long-vacant space with a beer garden, food trucks and other activities, Orgel and his partners in August entered into a contract to buy the property.

Time to put his money where his mouth is.

[memphisborn]

I love the idea of expanding Beale st all the way to the river. With Beale st landing completed and 1Beale back on the development board here what I envision for that surface parking lot sitting right behind 1 beale

http://specialevents.livenation.com/...eshows/9/1.jpg

This would bring foot traffic to the west end and connect to the river

[BnaBreaker]

There are times that I think about how odd it is that the home of the blues lacks a House of Blues franchise. Other times, though, I wonder if it wouldn't just be like putting an Olive Garden in Rome.