Homicide stats in Canadian Cities

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Without revealing too much, I am actually pretty pro-police, having a personal reason to feel that way.

I hear you. You're evaluating the process. I understand where you're coming from.

[lio45]

I'm aware that most discussions we here (the ones who have no connections to the Maritimes) will have will always be somewhat "in poor taste", but still, part of me feels that shouldn't stop us. This is a discussion forum, and it's a major piece of news...

Sending you guys "our thoughts and prayers" + shutting up about the (quite newsworthy) event ... is that the only possible behavior that's NOT in poor taste?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Without revealing too much, I am actually pretty pro-police, having a personal reason to feel that way.

lol. For once we have different positions. I absolutely detest Sherbrooke cops - you couldn't find worse assholes anywhere on the planet. For the past few years they've actually been aware I'll just refuse to work with them anytime I'm not legally compelled to. (It comes up once in a while, as I own a bunch of downtown buildings, some of which are still quite low-end (and in my defense, were even worse before I got them.))

If I ever considered the idea of a rampage target (and rest assured, I am perfectly sane and there's zero history of any mental issues in my entire family on both sides) I wouldn't need to think very long about it.

Also, my heart goes out to all the innocent victims of this madman.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don't see the value of speculation at this point... There are a lot of people in pain over this, and many more who will take a long long time to get over this. While I understand the level of interest in this case, the speculation feels like it's a just a little bit in poor taste.

We all just went through this damn thing yesterday, and we are still coming to terms with it. The factual information will come out within the next couple of weeks and then everybody will have years to talk about it. Just have some patience.

Not intended to be a shot, just some raw feelings from somebody who lives near where all this took place and who is very familiar with the locations and knows some people from the area. It's just shitty.

Sorry, being so far away it's easy to forget that it's not an abstract, academic curiosity for people who live there.

Peace.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I don't see the value of speculation at this point... There are a lot of people in pain over this, and many more who will take a long long time to get over this. While I understand the level of interest in this case, the speculation feels like it's a just a little bit in poor taste.

We all just went through this damn thing yesterday, and we are still coming to terms with it. The factual information will come out within the next couple of weeks and then everybody will have years to talk about it. Just have some patience.

Not intended to be a shot, just some raw feelings from somebody who lives near where all this took place and who is very familiar with the locations and knows some people from the area. It's just shitty.

I don't have any relatives in the Truro-Colchester area, but I've been through there many times. I have pretty deep family and personal ties in Nova Scotia, and reasonably close relatives of mine live about 15 minutes where this guy was finally neutralized. I am staring right now at the gift they gave us upon the birth of our first child. So yeah, that's pretty close.

That said, regarding the communication of information, one view (and this is Comms 101) is that by withholding information for too long you allow rumours, hearsay and even falsehoods to take control of "the ice".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

lol. For once we have different positions. I absolutely detest Sherbrooke cops - you couldn't find worse assholes anywhere on the planet. For the past few years they've actually been aware I'll just refuse to work with them anytime I'm not legally compelled to. (It comes up once in a while, as I own a bunch of downtown buildings, some of which are still quite low-end (and in my defense, were even worse before I got them.))
.

Oh, they can piss me off as well. (Though maybe not as much as they do you.)

But generally speaking, I still will come down on their side most of the time.

This will be controversial on here, but even a lot of officer-involved deaths, which almost always provoke a huge hue-and-cry, end up as defensible and justifiable when everyone calms down and looks at the actual facts. But of course in the public eye it's the initial hue-and-cry that has staying power, not the subsequent fact-based investigation.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by lio45

I'm aware that most discussions we here (the ones who have no connections to the Maritimes) will have will always be somewhat "in poor taste", but still, part of me feels that shouldn't stop us. This is a discussion forum, and it's a major piece of news...

Sending you guys "our thoughts and prayers" + shutting up about the (quite newsworthy) event ... is that the only possible behavior that's NOT in poor taste?

Hey, my intention isn't to suppress conversation or request some kind of censorship. I'm not a mod nor do I have any other kind of authority on this board. I'm just making a statement as to my opinion based on how I and many others are experiencing this.

The NY times article linked to here is written like some kind of action novel, but these are real people, who have real families, it's not some abstract concept based on imagined characters.

I realize I probably have higher standards than society in general for mutual respect and sensitivity for others' feelings - I run into it all the time in my 'real life', so I don't expect anybody to feel like they have to adhere to what they might think is acceptable to me or to have more empathy than they feel that they should have.

...And absolutely, sending "thoughts and prayers" shouldn't be done if one thinks it's bullshit. Well wishes that are insincere are meaningless and a waste of time. Save your energy.

So, no worries, carry on. You have a right to discuss in any fashion that you wish based on the rules of this forum and the discretion of the mods. I had no intentions of taking that away from anyone.

Like I said, just adding perspective to the conversation. All the crap that will come out soon enough will be fodder for much discussion as everybody tries to figure out why this piece of shit decided to kill people who have never done any wrong to him. Have at it.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Sorry, being so far away it's easy to forget that it's not an abstract, academic curiosity for people who live there.

Peace.

Hey no worries. At all.

I shouldn't be making folks feel like they shouldn't discuss the highest-profile news story that exists in our country at the moment. You're not being unreasonable, I'm perhaps being oversensitive, or at least over-honest.

So please feel free to carry on, everyone. I'm just one person in this forum and have no right to make people feel like they should have to curb their conversation.

Peace as well...

[q12]

1 American is now presumed dead. (Retired to Nova Scotia from New Mexico).

Death toll is at least 20 now.

[VANRIDERFAN]

What a horrible person the shooter was.

I can somewhat understand crimes of passion when the red mist of rages takes hold of a person. But to plan by acquiring a police car, uniforms, weapons, and likely reconning the route is evil of an unfathomable level. This must have taken months if not years of planning....I just shake my head at it all.

On another note, the RCMP ERT teams had the absolute worse job of all. They were trying to get ahead of the decision loop of the killer. He had all the advantages and they had none, they were reacting with little to no information.

Constable Heidi Stevenson is an absolute hero and her actions of taking out the fake police cruiser likely saved many more lives. VC worthy action IMHO.

[q12]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Constable Heidi Stevenson is an absolute hero and her actions of taking out the fake police cruiser likely saved many more lives. VC worthy action IMHO.

He was less than 5 km from the Halifax airport when police finally gunned him down.

It's hard to not think about where he was headed next if he wasn't stopped. He was only 15-20 minutes away from very populated urban parts of Halifax.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

What a horrible person the shooter was.

I can somewhat understand crimes of passion when the red mist of rages takes hold of a person. But to plan by acquiring a police car, uniforms, weapons, and likely reconning the route is evil of an unfathomable level. This must have taken months if not years of planning....I just shake my head at it all.

On another note, the RCMP ERT teams had the absolute worse job of all. They were trying to get ahead of the decision loop of the killer. He had all the advantages and they had none, they were reacting with little to no information.

Constable Heidi Stevenson is an absolute hero and her actions of taking out the fake police cruiser likely saved many more lives. VC worthy action IMHO.

Well put. The demented level of planning on the perp's part is what really makes him stand out as a vile piece of crap.

But even if you play the Monday morning quarterback game, I'm not sure how this could have been prevented... even if the RCMP hadn't sold surplus cruisers, there is nothing preventing someone from buying a standard white Ford Taurus and customizing it. Police memorabilia is popular with collectors and readily available online.

I wonder if this incident didn't plant some seeds in similarly twisted minds.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't have any relatives in the Truro-Colchester area, but I've been through there many times. I have pretty deep family and personal ties in Nova Scotia, and reasonably close relatives of mine live about 15 minutes where this guy was finally neutralized. I am staring right now at the gift they gave us upon the birth of our first child. So yeah, that's pretty close.

That said, regarding the communication of information, one view (and this is Comms 101) is that by withholding information for too long you allow rumours, hearsay and even falsehoods to take control of "the ice".

Yes, good point. Hopefully they get the information out soon, so the media can report the actual confirmed facts rather than speculation and rumour.

The RCMP said yesterday that they are having to process 16 separate crime scenes. It is a huge undertaking that will require a lot of skilled, experienced members (and time) to handle properly and put it all together.

They also said that they will soon come up with a timeline that will detail the activities of that individual during the killing spree. From the sound of it they expect to have it mid-week?

Another aspect that they will be looking into is how this individual was able to obtain all of the items that made him able to replicate an RCMP cruiser so closely, and the authentic-appearing, or actual, uniform. The investigation will be quite deep and far-reaching. It will take years for all of the info to come out, I'm sure.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Another aspect that they will be looking into is how this individual was able to obtain all of the items that made him able to replicate an RCMP cruiser so closely, and the authentic-appearing, or actual, uniform. The investigation will be quite deep and far-reaching. It will take years for all of the info to come out, I'm sure.

Probably not that hard to create a replica RCMP cruiser. You can buy surplus cruisers from the government for a couple thousand bucks a pop. Then all you really need is some decals, and how hard can those be to source?

On one had you wonder if the RCMP might just send those cars to the scrapyard now instead of selling them for $1,800, but even then what prevents someone from just buying a normal civilian Ford Taurus and doing the same thing with it?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by esquire

Probably not that hard to create a replica RCMP cruiser. You can buy surplus cruisers from the government for a couple thousand bucks a pop. Then all you really need is some decals, and how hard can those be to source?

On one had you wonder if the RCMP might just send those cars to the scrapyard now instead of selling them for $1,800, but even then what prevents someone from just buying a normal civilian Ford Taurus and doing the same thing with it?

You can, but police have said the shooter's car was not one of those.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

You can, but police have said the shooter's car was not one of those.

True. But the point is that for someone who wants to drive a replica, the government itself provides them direct to you, cheap.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by esquire

Probably not that hard to create a replica RCMP cruiser. You can buy surplus cruisers from the government for a couple thousand bucks a pop. Then all you really need is some decals, and how hard can those be to source?

On one had you wonder if the RCMP might just send those cars to the scrapyard now instead of selling them for $1,800, but even then what prevents someone from just buying a normal civilian Ford Taurus and doing the same thing with it?

I'm aware that you can buy cop cars once they are taken out of service, don't think they are that cheap, but that's beside the point. There are lots of details specific to police cruisers that differ from garden variety Tauruses (Taurii?). But yes, it would be mostly details that would differentiate one from a regular Taurus, and most people probably wouldn't know the differences either. Nor would they question the details if they thought it was a legit officer pulling them over or coming to their door.

However, I don't imagine that the decals on police cars are something you can just have made up at any old decal shop. First of all, they are reflective, so one would assume not easily obtainable, but secondly there would be legal issues with producing RCMP cruiser decals, would there not? I would think your average law-abiding shop owner would wonder why somebody wanted replica decals (that would have to exactly fit the contours of a Taurus - there would be some work to make them fit perfectly without existing templates), and perhaps report it to police?

Also, one would assume there to be difficulty in purchasing the red/blue strobes and other such equipment that is unique to emergency vehicles. When decommissioned cop cars are sold at auction, all of that stuff is to be removed.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that you would have to be a representative of the agency to be able to purchase such things. I believe that police agencies have their cars, once they receive the police spec vehicle from Ford or whoever, converted to police units (i.e. adding lights, decals, etc.) at local vendors, but one would think there would be some sort of control on these sort of items. It's possible that the murderer bought some under the table from one of those shops, but if that's the case somebody there will be out of a job and could serve jail time, I would think.

This is why I don't think it would be an easy conversion for the average joe to complete. I mean, the police forces have a specific interest in not wanting to allow exact replicas of police vehicles to be made - for reasons such as this case.

[Acajack]

For someone as obsessed as this guy seemed to be, I think all of this is within the realm of the possible. Well, obviously it was.

In terms of the vehicle itself, if you can't buy one at an auction, all you need to do is scout out which model the cops in your area use. There is even a good chance you can get the same colour, and even if you can't you just get it painted. The rooftop emergency light assembly I am 99% sure you can buy on the Internet from someone. Decals can be reproduced with astonishing exactness these days.

Uniforms can be bought online I am pretty sure. Also, many cop uniforms look the same now and almost resemble black hunting gear. Except for the word POLICE on the back usually velcro-ed, and of course the patches. As someone said, patches are all over the place. I had a collection of tons of police and other law enforcement patches from all over the world as a kid.

It's all scary when you think about it.

[Acajack]

Now up to 23 dead. It's a nightmare that just gets worse and worse.

[HomeInMyShoes]

It is incredibly sad. I really can't fathom this kind of violence at all.