RAM - Royal Alberta Museum

[Mikemike]

the golf cart was tongue-in-cheek, but it's what airports do to make their much longer distances and often tight schedules work - and they'll often push a wheelchair for those who request it. It's unnecessary at RAM but it's certainly possible.

In cases like 240's inlaws having underground accessible parking located under city hall or at the library doesn't require an additional transfer beyond the one getting out of the car - I know that in winter I would rather make that transfer in a heated underground parkade a half-block over and push the wheelchair than make the attempt in a potentially icy surface parking spot no matter how close to the front door that space may be.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

Multi-hour waits instead of walks, and you have to book a day or more ahead. Would that be ok for drivers, I wonder? A handicap parking stall but you have to book it the day ahead but you have to be ready waiting at 2 for a stall that is expected (but not garaunteed) to be available sometime before 3:45.

Or maybe a parking stall in city hall parkade kitty corner to the museum with enclosed barrier-free access is perfectly reasonable accommodation. Improving street-level access for all mobility-challenged patrons with level, unobstructed, ice-free sidewalks, low-slope curb cuts without bumps or puddles that don’t angle dangerously toward traffic, there are all kinds of things that can be done to improve access that benefit more people than a little on-site designated parking might.

emphasis added.

right... because that's a perfectly accurate description of edmonton's streets and sidewalks in the winter. hell, it's not even an accurate description of our streets and sidewalks in the summer. even if that was an acceptable criteria, you would probably have to plan your ram museum trip a decade or two out, not a day or more ahead.

as for that day or more ahead concern, (a) that's how most museum trips are planned anyway, not spur of the moment and (b) there should be a reasonable amount of handicap parking available to meet most peak demand requirements whether planned or impromptu without having to reserve it. and for further clarification on (b), pretty much every grocery store or restaurant or parkade or office building in the city manages to do that, it shouldn't be unexplored rocket science for the museum to make same similar accommodations.

moving on (appropriate pun intended), i hear through reasonably reliable sources that there are some more appropriate handicap parking accommodations being implemented if they haven't been already so kudos to those who raised the issue and kudos to alberta infrastructure for responding if true.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

the golf cart was tongue-in-cheek, but it's what airports do to make their much longer distances and often tight schedules work - and they'll often push a wheelchair for those who request it. It's unnecessary at RAM but it's certainly possible.

In cases like 240's inlaws having underground accessible parking located under city hall or at the library doesn't require an additional transfer beyond the one getting out of the car - I know that in winter I would rather make that transfer in a heated underground parkade a half-block over and push the wheelchair than make the attempt in a potentially icy surface parking spot no matter how close to the front door that space may be.

you don't need to keep proving that you don't really know what you're talking/posting about.

[s211]

Originally Posted by kcantor

i hear through reasonably reliable sources that there are some more appropriate handicap parking accommodations being implemented if they haven't been already

If you hear more, please do let us know. I know of several mobility-challenged people that were eagerly awaiting the new museum, and now have no desire to go because of the existing design flubs.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by s211

If you hear more, please do let us know. I know of several mobility-challenged people that were eagerly awaiting the new museum, and now have no desire to go because of the existing design flubs.

there are some "handicap" designated stalls on 104 avenue in front of the "forecourt" but those are the ones that are also designated "no parking" so they work for pick-up/drop off but not for parking.

it's my understanding that they will be creating/designating some handicap parking in the loading/bus drop-off area at the south east corner of the museum.

i believe the access point to the building at that corner was designated for tour groups so i don't know if they will be allowing secondary handicap building access at that corner as well or if you will still need to make you way to the main entry but that sidewalk is adjacent to the building (not the city sidewalk) and should be reasonably accessible.

there is four way vehicular ingress/egress to that area from 97th street and a slightly awkward what looks to be westbound only egress to 103a avenue (it's really close to the intersection) that also has to used to get to the sidewalk on the south side of the building (unless they're also going to add a ramp to circumvent the stairs that provide access to the sidewalk on the east side) but it's quite wide.

[Mikemike]

Originally Posted by kcantor

emphasis added.

right... because that's a perfectly accurate description of edmonton's streets and sidewalks in the winter. hell, it's not even an accurate description of our streets and sidewalks in the summer. even if that was an acceptable criteria, you would probably have to plan your ram museum trip a decade or two out, not a day or more ahead.

You're right, it's not. It's also not what I was saying. It is what our accessibility efforts should be focussed on - making our city more accessible for everyone, not just for the minority of disabled people who drive an have a permit, but for those who don't drive.

as for that day or more ahead concern, (a) that's how most museum trips are planned anyway, not spur of the moment and (b) there should be a reasonable amount of handicap parking available to meet most peak demand requirements whether planned or impromptu without having to reserve it. and for further clarification on (b), pretty much every grocery store or restaurant or parkade or office building in the city manages to do that, it shouldn't be unexplored rocket science for the museum to make same similar accommodations.

moving on (appropriate pun intended), i hear through reasonably reliable sources that there are some more appropriate handicap parking accommodations being implemented if they haven't been already so kudos to those who raised the issue and kudos to alberta infrastructure for responding if true.

(a) Perhaps. But DATS riders also have to deal with much more variability/unreliability in travel time than regular transit riders or drivers do, and are in general more severely handicapped than the average Handicap placard driver. Lots of regular transit riders have mobility issues, the spaces on each bus for wheelchair users are used regularly.

(b) sounds good, which is what we already have assuming Library and City hall parkades have reasonable numbers of designated spaces. What is reasonable is up for discussion.

(b2) There are all kinds of establishments and destinations that don't have dedicated front-door parking, including those in malls that can easily be farther from the front door than RAM is from the City Hall Parkade, along with AGA and The Winspear Centre just down the block - both of which direct visitors to public parking near by.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

You're right, it's not. It's also not what I was saying. It is what our accessibility efforts should be focussed on - making our city more accessible for everyone, not just for the minority of disabled people who drive an have a permit, but for those who don't drive.

(a) Perhaps. But DATS riders also have to deal with much more variability/unreliability in travel time than regular transit riders or drivers do, and are in general more severely handicapped than the average Handicap placard driver. Lots of regular transit riders have mobility issues, the spaces on each bus for wheelchair users are used regularly.

(b) sounds good, which is what we already have assuming Library and City hall parkades have reasonable numbers of designated spaces. What is reasonable is up for discussion.

(b2) There are all kinds of establishments and destinations that don't have dedicated front-door parking, including those in malls that can easily be farther from the front door than RAM is from the City Hall Parkade, along with AGA and The Winspear Centre just down the block - both of which direct visitors to public parking near by.

as for those "all kinds of establishments and destinations" that also do a shitty job at this, many of them were built when we didn't know any better. now that we know better we should be building better and not presenting them as acceptable norms.

as for the aga and winspear, the parkade you're directed to provides direct access to the both of them (as well as to city hall, the citadel, chancery hall, the library and the westin). there are some provisions in place to also link the ram to churchill station that would also connect to that parkade and the city hall parkade but that's not a current/timely option.

[Mikemike]

Originally Posted by kcantor

as for those "all kinds of establishments and destinations" that also do a shitty job at this, many of them were built when we didn't know any better. now that we know better we should be building better and not presenting them as acceptable norms.

as for the aga and winspear, the parkade you're directed to provides direct access to the both of them (as well as to city hall, the citadel, chancery hall, the library and the westin). there are some provisions in place to also link the ram to churchill station that would also connect to that parkade and the city hall parkade but that's not a current/timely option.

(emphasis by me)

I had understood that the pedway link was completed - my whole argument string above was based on that assumption. If that's not the case then I concede, especially since elevator access to Churchill station and the parkades isn't easy to find at the end nearest RAM.

Current Pedway maps don't have the connection listed - but the RAM website advertises a direct pedway connection with an elevator to the main floor. Maybe I have to walk over and see for myself.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

(emphasis by me)

I had understood that the pedway link was completed - my whole argument string above was based on that assumption. If that's not the case then I concede, especially since elevator access to Churchill station and the parkades isn't easy to find at the end nearest RAM.

Current Pedway maps don't have the connection listed - but the RAM website advertises a direct pedway connection with an elevator to the main floor. Maybe I have to walk over and see for myself.

the "future link" i noted was directly north from churchill/city hall and doesn't exist. the soldier piles and "lid" were completed prior to completing the landscaping for the forecourt so that portion is ready to be excavated in the future without surface work but it doesn't extend under 104/103a avenue. you're thinking of the old tunnel that went from the law courts to the remand centre/brownlee building… it still exists and i think there is a connection to it at the se corner of the ram but i would like to hear your report on its condition if you can walk it (and how you would feel navigating it by yourself in a wheelchair ) but last i heard it was being closed for safety reasons (not for the first time). as for the connection, i'm not sure if it's actually open, whether it would comply with cepted if it was, and if there is an accessible elevator in the vicinity...

[Mikemike]

I did walk through. The connection is there, with signage and all.

The tunnel from brownlee to the law courts is OK but need to upgrade the lighting, just a little yellow and dim. The Law courts section is in pretty poor shape. peeling paint and buckets everywhere, there must have been a pretty substantial leak - but that section has windows into the garden so lighting and atmosphere otherwise is fine.

The accessibility issue I noticed as some of the doors down the hallway don't have hold-open devices and one set at the law courts even had 2/3 of them locked. That's something that needs to be fixed.

It's also a longer route from the doors to get to Churchill from RAM's SE corner than I was picturing from the SW, so City Hall parking isn't quite as ideal. It feels a little longer underground with nothing on the walls than it would outside, I think. I hope the Museum can put something on the walls to add a little interest.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by Mikemike

I did walk through. The connection is there, with signage and all.

The tunnel from brownlee to the law courts is OK but need to upgrade the lighting, just a little yellow and dim. The Law courts section is in pretty poor shape. peeling paint and buckets everywhere, there must have been a pretty substantial leak - but that section has windows into the garden so lighting and atmosphere otherwise is fine.

The accessibility issue I noticed as some of the doors down the hallway don't have hold-open devices and one set at the law courts even had 2/3 of them locked. That's something that needs to be fixed.

It's also a longer route from the doors to get to Churchill from RAM's SE corner than I was picturing from the SW, so City Hall parking isn't quite as ideal. It feels a little longer underground with nothing on the walls than it would outside, I think. I hope the Museum can put something on the walls to add a little interest.

I walk through there probably 2-3 times a week, when we park at the Brownlee instead of my building.

You think the lighting is bad now you should have seen it a year ago! The pedway and law courts sections have been leaking for years. They seem to have gotten a handle on most of the huge ones in the Brownlee tunnel but the law courts side is really terrible. The tunnel as bad CPTED due to blind spots and alcoves. They do have handicapped operators on most of the doors except the ones leading out of the law courts to the RAM.

The biggest issue may be the hours you can get though those doors. Right now the tunnel between law courts and the Brownlee is only open from 7:30am to 5pm. It's locked right down after that. Hopefully they can adjust those hours to accommodate the hours for the museum. There is a shuttle elevator at the Brownlee where you can get from street level on the norhtwest side of the building down into the tunnel

[Coldrsx]

Quite the amazing ceremonial opening this AM. I speed walked the galleries and WOW. Going back on Friday.







https://twitter.com/IanOyeg/status/1047578382022504448
@ianyeg

[Coldrsx]

https://twitter.com/IanOyeg/status/1047587311230173184
@ianoyeg

[Coldrsx]

Took our staff there for a tour today, they were all very impressed.

I also bought a FRAMS pass.

[Coldrsx]

Learn more about the RAM:

http://www.dialogdesign.ca/rammedia/

[Airboy]

I'm there on the 15th, looking forward to it.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Learn more about the RAM:

http://www.dialogdesign.ca/rammedia/

Architectural bafflegab that I immediately call BS on.

One such example: "The design simply wouldn't work anywhere else."

OK, so what does that really tell me about this project? That the emperor has no clothes?

[jawagord]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Took our staff there for a tour today, they were all very impressed.

I also bought a FRAMS pass.

RAM, not getting a good "value for money" review, think I'll be waiting until after 2020 to take in the exhibits.


https://nationalpost.com/opinion/tri...#comments-area

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by jawagord

RAM, not getting a good "value for money" review, think I'll be waiting until after 2020 to take in the exhibits.


https://nationalpost.com/opinion/tri...#comments-area

Tristin Hopper lives in his parents' basement and files hit job pieces as his raison d'être. He's one of the reasons I cancelled my Journal subscription after 25+ years of getting the paper. I didn't want to give another penny to Post Media.

[Albicaulis]

I read that article just before visiting the new RAM for the first time on Sunday. I took the article seriously, but found the critiques of the displays were taken exceedingly out of context. I found them to be very well presented and as professional as any other museum. There may be some valid points regarding (some) of the content, but that's the nature of museums.