WPG to become an NHL city again?

[tokama]

Here's hoping it is true - as a Flames fan and a long-time Calgarian - I really do miss the Jets. Whenever i see the jersey around I long to see Selanne flying down the wing (but no Bob Essensa - he killed us all the time)

MTS centre better for NHL hockey than the Saddledome???? oooooh, I don't know about that. How many corporate boxes does it have?

[1ajs]

they just renovated thoughs.....

[trueviking]

yeah, winnipeggers are proud of that arena, but it is just ok...it is not better than saddledome or GM place, or even northlands, or whatever it is these days.

it only has 52 suites (chipman does claim this can be increased), but with the amenities that it has and with the fewer seats, i wouldnt be praising it too much.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by feepa

Just for fun here's some NHL related metro populations: (2005 estimates - in millions)
0.6 Winnipeg (0.7 might be more accurate?)

.72 thank you very much....and if american style metro areas were used, closer to .85 (close to a million within an hour's drive 100kms)

point taken though...and that is why the smaller arena hurts more in percetion than anything....really, three quarters of a million people in a true market is probably better than 1.1 million in a basketball market, but the perception is bad....so, adding the smallest arena in the league only adds to that perception.

[IntotheWest]

I quickly looked up the "advertised" ticket prices for a handful of the teams, and what I found is below...however, that doesn't include any special deals that may also be advertised (or not advertised).

TV - your Phx experience for $25 says it all. I've said it a few times, that my colleague in Anaheim that bought tickets to the 2nd/3rd round playoff game last year - GAME DAY - for about $25/seat..."good" seats according to him.

Tampa

Most expensive season tickets US$3,899 (*lower level special now, $1,799)
price ranges for single game:
plaza $115-299
club $115-125
terrace $19-68

suite rental per game (seat 18)

5 game package $12,500

Calgary
Most expensive season tickets Cdn$5,440 (cheapest lower level $3,822)

price ranges single game
level 2 $40-195
level 1 $50-195
level 3 $25-30

suite rental per game (seat 16)

Terrace level, 16 seats $4500-5500 4 game package $21,000

Detroit

price ranges single game
exec level $76-85
arena (upper) $22-76

suite rental per game ???

Toronto

Season tickets? Good luck

price ranges single game
$136-381.80
$34.70-81

suite rental per game

$4850-8600 (seat 10) $6300-10500 (seat 20)

Ottawa

Most expensive season ticket $4890 (cheapest lower level $3100)

price ranges single game
lower level $104-131
mid 200 level $86-104
high 300 level $13.79-64

Anaheim

Most expensive season ticket *$7600 (first "glass" row), non-"glass" row $3300 (cheapest lower level $2700)

price ranges single game
glass seats $148-297 (first row)
lower level $72-93
mid level $99
upper $16.25-55

Nashville

Range for season tickets $528-4100

price range single game
lower level $51-115
club $47-85
upper $15-40

suite rental per game (seat 16) - $2000

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by trueviking

in phoenix, i got 2 tickets against the reigning champions on a saturday in the playoff stretch for $25 total, and that included 2 beach blankets and 2 hot dogs and 2 drinks.

I'm going to a Phoenix game in February - where do i get these cheap seats? From the team or on the street??

[newflyer]

Its really funny reading these posts from the Edmonton and Calgary camps.. who really were a hair away from losing there teams as well.

I remember in particular the Flames begging the corportae community to stand behind them, in a presentation at Bankers Hall as they were desparate for support. The team was on its way down... and the group of local owners who picked up the team said it was all on the community if it survived. Perhaps the Flames fans are more concerned about the Jets coming back then they let on.

I also remember Edmonton business community scrambling to create a large enough group of owners to prop up that team in the 90's. It was pretty well to the point of not being able resign it high price players, due to weak buget limitations. Not much has changed.. the team is still dealing with a limited budget.. and this is during a massive Alberta boom. Anyone want to guess if it will get better or worse when oil returns to the 30's??

The only thing which saw those team survive beyond the Jets were its venue. The Saddledome and the Rexal Centre made the old Winnipeg arena look like a it didn't long in the same league and it didn't. It was a cheap box.

Today Winnipeg's MTS centre has both the Oilers and Flames drooling to have such a state of the art venue .. with a couple thousand more seats. The Oilers ownership group said so much on CJOB during the lockout.. they wanted to have something like MTS centre. The AHL Moose have an amzing home they said. Everyone who has seen that arena has been very impressed, from national sports media to NHL members. The only thing holding it back is a couple thousand seats. Chipman screwed up for sure.

For those who rely on the attendance numbers posted by the NHL.. don't bother. I heard from various sources that niether Nashville or Miami draw anywhere near what they publish. In fact on the Fan radio network they said that many of the southern market teams don't even get close to 10,000 paid attendance.. and during a weekday game its closer to 5 - 7000 people in the arena, never mind the number of free tickets. The NHL is nothing in the States. Its smaller than bowling.. IT IS NOT A MAJOR LEAGUE SPORT .. not even a second teir sport... it gets lower tv ratings than fishing, WNBA, beach volleyball, AFL2(minor league to AFL). So lets keep things in perspective.. Winnipeg is easily one of the top 10 hockey markets , with a large corporate base... and you only have to watch the world championships to see Winnipeg break the attndance records of this world event (with only 3 months notice). If you don't think Winnipeg has the attention of the NHL, then guess again. The way the NHL is falling apart these days the league needs Winnipeg much more then Winnipeg needs the league.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by flatlander

I'm going to a Phoenix game in February - where do i get these cheap seats? From the team or on the street??

there is no street...the arena is in the middle of nowhere....the deals i got were face value tickets from the box office....in atlanta i went to my second game for $2.75....all the money i had to give to a scalper...i am sure there are scalpers in phoenix too.

we drove almost 200 kms round trip from my parent's place in mesa, which is just a normal suburb, to the arena, which isnt even in the furthest out suburb......200kms!...phoenix sucks.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by P&M40BELOW

If either Calgary or Edmonton hadn't built their new arenas, BOTH would have headed south.

Neither Calgary nor Edmonton built new arenas, at least not any time recently. Rexall Place was built in 1974, and the Saddledome im 1983.

Your comment makes it sound like the Flames and Oilers suddenly got new digs, and that's why they stayed - nothing could be further from the truth. Neither team built a new arena (except when they were very first formed/moved), and by the 90s, ie: when the Jets left, were already playing in 10-20 year old buildings - which they still play in today.

If either Calgary or Edmonton hadn't built their "new arenas", BOTH would have folded within 5 years, because the teams started out playing in 5,000 seat arenas.

I wish people would at least have a vague understanding of history before getting into these flamewars.

[freeweed]

Just for fun here's where these teams rank based on attendance, according to ESPN for the first 25 or so games this season:

18.7 NY-NJ (3 teams here, #11, #26, and #29)
12.9 LA (2 teams here, #18 and #21)
9.4 Chicago (#28)
5.8 Philidelphia (#6)
5.8 Dallas (#12)
5.4 Miami (#22)
5.3 Toronto (#4)
5.2 Washington DC (#27)
5.2 Houston (no team)
4.9 Atlanta (#20)
4.4 Detroit (#2)
4.4 Boston (#24)
3.8 Phoenix (#25)
3.6 Montreal (#1)
3.3 San Francisco (#14)
3.1 Twin Cities (#10)
2.7 St. L (#30)
2.6 Tampa (#3)
2.3 Pittsburgh (#19)
2.3 Denver (#13)
2.0 Portland (no team)
1.9 Kansas City (no team)
1.9 Vancouver (#9)
1.7 Columbus (#17)
1.4 Nashville (#23)
1.4 Raleigh - Durham (#15)
1.1 Oklahoma City (no team)
1.1 Buffalo (#8)
1.1 Ottawa (#7)
1.0 Calgary (#5)
1.0 Edmonton (no team)
0.6 Winnipeg (no team)


Just in case anyone was stupid enough to keep on about population size vs game attendance. Notice how many HUGE cities draw hardly any crowds? And how many small cities draw huge crowds? 9 of the worst 10 teams in the league are in cities of nearly 4 million people or more! 4 of the top 10 are in cities of under 2 million!

Don't make me pull out the "% of seats" sold figures, either - it just further strengthens my point.

City size really has nothing to do with NHL attendance. FAN BASE is where it's at - and have fun arguing that Winnipeg doesn't have that.

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by newflyer

Its really funny reading these posts from the Edmonton and Calgary camps.. who really were a hair away from losing there teams as well.

I remember in particular the Flames begging the corportae community to stand behind them, in a presentation at Bankers Hall as they were desparate for support. The team was on its way down...

I remember Joe Canada from the I AM Canadian rant ad campaign back in 2000 at a rally at Olympic Plaza rallying up support for the flames because they were threatening to move to Portland, Oregon. THANK GOD we made a cup run the year before the strike, or we would be threatening to move to Winnipeg.

Originally Posted by newflyer

For those who rely on the attendance numbers posted by the NHL.. don't bother. I heard from various sources that niether Nashville or Miami draw anywhere near what they publish. In fact on the Fan radio network they said that many of the southern market teams don't even get close to 10,000 paid attendance.. and during a weekday game its closer to 5 - 7000 people in the arena, never mind the number of free tickets. The NHL is nothing in the States.

Hockey shouldn't be in the southern states period. the only reason hockey works in Florida (and if you can consider it working) is because of the large number of Canadian's who used to travel down to Florida to avoid the winter months. and now that its becoming increasingly more difficult to travel to the states, less Canadian's are heading there. so, you're going to lose your fan base. Canadian's are going to want their sport played in their cities. i totally agree that the NHL expanded WAY too fast into untested markets and since the lockout, interest has all but died out. 5,000 - 7,000/game in a three sport market like Miami is good, but not good enough to warrant a professional sports team.

Originally Posted by newflyer

The way the NHL is falling apart these days the league needs Winnipeg much more then Winnipeg needs the league.

someone HAD to say this!!!

[trueviking]

freeweed...cool research, thanks...verry funny edmonton, no team..

amazing 110 posts in one day!...someone should go start a 'NHL is coming to portland/houston/kansas city' thread in the appropriate regional forums and see how many tumbleweeds blow through.

if anything, there is passion about the issue on both sides.....maybe that speaks greater volumes than any statistic.

[m0nkyman]

Originally Posted by freeweed

18.7 NY-NJ (3 teams here, #11, #26, and #29)
12.9 LA (2 teams here, #18 and #21)
9.4 Chicago (#28)
5.8 Philidelphia (#6)
5.8 Dallas (#12)
5.4 Miami (#22)
5.3 Toronto (#4)
5.2 Washington DC (#27)
5.2 Houston (no team)
4.9 Atlanta (#20)
4.4 Detroit (#2)
4.4 Boston (#24)
3.8 Phoenix (#25)
3.6 Montreal (#1)
3.3 San Francisco (#14)
3.1 Twin Cities (#10)
2.7 St. L (#30)
2.6 Tampa (#3)
2.3 Pittsburgh (#19)
2.3 Denver (#13)
2.0 Portland (no team)
1.9 Kansas City (no team)
1.9 Vancouver (#9)
1.7 Columbus (#17)
1.4 Nashville (#23)
1.4 Raleigh - Durham (#15)
1.1 Oklahoma City (no team)
1.1 Buffalo (#8)
1.1 Ottawa (#7)
1.0 Calgary (#5)
1.0 Edmonton (no team)
0.6 Winnipeg (no team)

cute.

[1ajs]

lol thats bizzar a typo?

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by newflyer

Winnipeg is easily one of the top 10 hockey markets , with a large corporate base...

Yeah right!

Do you think Winnipeg is a better hockey market then any of the current Canadian NHL markets? There's 6 markets better right there that are better.

Here's some American markets that are clearly better then Winnipeg as well: Minneapolis-St. Paul, Detroit, New York, Philadelphia.

That's 10 right there.

If it wasn't for ownership killing interest in their NHL teams, I think you could add Chicago and Boston as well.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by trueviking

freeweed...cool research, thanks...verry funny edmonton, no team..

Gaaaaaah. Typo, typo, typo. Pretty funny considering I live in Calgary now though....

Sorry Oilers fans, that was an honest mistake and not intentional. I forget where Edmonton sat in those rankings but it was somewhere in the top half I believe.

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, I work for the NHL and I just leaked the move to Albequerque (sp). Did they start selling southwestern-style food at Rexall recently?

[Brokenhead]

On Global news they did figures showing that the MTS Centre can just barely hold a NHL team. But when the salaries rise, we may have a problem.

[wags_in_the_peg]

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/media/index.html#

click on the "Winnipeg NHL Hopes" for Glabal National video on NHL return to Winnipeg (after the vaseline commercial)

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

Yeah right!

Do you think Winnipeg is a better hockey market then any of the current Canadian NHL markets? There's 6 markets better right there that are better.

Here's some American markets that are clearly better then Winnipeg as well: Minneapolis-St. Paul, Detroit, New York, Philadelphia.

That's 10 right there.

If it wasn't for ownership killing interest in their NHL teams, I think you could add Chicago and Boston as well.

And there he is! It was only a matter of time before the hot air factor started to increase.

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by Albertaboy

And there he is! It was only a matter of time before the hot air factor started to increase.

Why do you keep replying to my posts with idiotic comments that add no value or purpose to the discussion?