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  #381  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2018, 2:46 PM
Ire Narissis Ire Narissis is offline
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If the Confederation is ancient, what does that make the Holiday Island? A fossil? XD

Anyway, from what I can quickly google, it looks like they're under contract up to the end of next year, after which the federal government would have to sign a new contract. They've paid lipservice to the idea of replacing both ferries, but I'll believe that when I see it. Wouldn't be at all surprised if it happened not long before a federal election, similar to the replacement of the Saint John - Digby ferry.
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  #382  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2018, 6:47 PM
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The ferry to NS from Wood Islands remains popular with tourists, and is considered indispensable by businesses in eastern PEI (long detour via the Confederation Bridge if your destination is points east in NS). I don't think the ferry service is in jeopardy. The cost of the service, and the frequency of the service however are negotiable........
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  #383  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2018, 6:51 PM
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Speaking of ferry services, when is the NB government going to man up and provide a year round ferry service to Campobello Island. I find it outrageous that for 8-9 months a year, the only way to get to the island is an hour long drive through Maine. That just isn't right. There actually isn't any ferry this year at all - the private operator isn't providing one (maybe maintenance issues).

The ferry doesn't have to be large, and it only takes about 20 minutes to reach Campobello from Deer Island. I think a vessel capable of taking 25-40 cars on an hourly basis should be sufficient - something like the existing ferry from Deer Island to the mainland.
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  #384  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 3:06 PM
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Bumping this thread.

I read in the T&T today that the year round population of Campobello has dropped to 800 (a 33% decline in the last 20 years). The cause for this decline is blamed squarely on the lack of a year round reliable ferry service to the Canadian mainland.

I wholeheartedly agree! For nine months a year, residents have to take a circuitous 77 km long one hour drive through Maine to get back into Canada. This last year, the private summer ferry serving Campobello didn't run at all because it was out for repairs. Travel back and forth to Campobello is considerably more difficult now than it was before 9/11 (when residents would only have to nod to the US border guard when they left the island). Passports are now required, and car searches may occur. Transporting commercial goods to the island is a nightmare because two international border crossings are required (each way), with all the resultant paperwork and permitting. This is a huge disincentive to commercial activity on the island and stifles economic growth.

If we don't establish a ferry to Campobello, it is clear that population will continue to drop, and at some point, it may no longer be worthwhile maintaining a presence on the island at all. If this ever happens, we might as will give the island to the US. With FDR's cottage on there, I'm sure they would be glad to take it! Maybe we could trade Campobello for the Northwest Angle in Minnesota and Point Roberts in Washington State!!!

This would be a shame however. I have been to Campobello a half dozen times and I really enjoy the place. It is scenic and exotic with a peculiar mixture of Canadian and American qualities about it, right down to the US style park ranger uniforms used at the international peace park where FDR's cottage is located at. If the island were more accessible, I might consider having a summer place there myself - I enjoy the island that much.

We need a provincial ferry service to save Campobello.
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  #385  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 4:35 PM
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Bumping this thread.

I read in the T&T today that the year round population of Campobello has dropped to 800 (a 33% decline in the last 20 years). The cause for this decline is blamed squarely on the lack of a year round reliable ferry service to the Canadian mainland.

I wholeheartedly agree! For nine months a year, residents have to take a circuitous 77 km long one hour drive through Maine to get back into Canada. This last year, the private summer ferry serving Campobello didn't run at all because it was out for repairs. Travel back and forth to Campobello is considerably more difficult now than it was before 9/11 (when residents would only have to nod to the US border guard when they left the island). Passports are now required, and car searches may occur. Transporting commercial goods to the island is a nightmare because two international border crossings are required (each way), with all the resultant paperwork and permitting. This is a huge disincentive to commercial activity on the island and stifles economic growth.

If we don't establish a ferry to Campobello, it is clear that population will continue to drop, and at some point, it may no longer be worthwhile maintaining a presence on the island at all. If this ever happens, we might as will give the island to the US. With FDR's cottage on there, I'm sure they would be glad to take it! Maybe we could trade Campobello for the Northwest Angle in Minnesota and Point Roberts in Washington State!!!

This would be a shame however. I have been to Campobello a half dozen times and I really enjoy the place. It is scenic and exotic with a peculiar mixture of Canadian and American qualities about it, right down to the US style park ranger uniforms used at the international peace park where FDR's cottage is located at. If the island were more accessible, I might consider having a summer place there myself - I enjoy the island that much.

We need a provincial ferry service to save Campobello.
Great post Monctonrad, I agree with every word. This is a fiasco. AS I understand it Bay Ferries has the contract to provide this route under an agreement with the province.

Bay Ferries also has the SJ/Digby run , the provincial run near Blacks Harbour to Grand Mannan and possibly Wood Islands, PE To Caribou NS. they may also have a few smaller runs. IF The President of this company is the same person he was 2 or 3 years ago, he was a high ranking officiaL at Marine Atlantic in Moncton and was my dads senior manager 2 or 3 levels above him.

He retired when Marine closed Moncton office and acquired or started this company.

I blame the province and Bay equally for this debacle. 1st. the province for not forcing Bay to quiickly fix/lease another ferry to provide the service. 2nd. Bay Ferries for apparently throwing their hands in the air and saying there is nothing I can do the Ferry broke.


THE Province needs to enforce this contract. (they probably didn't/don't because they save any subsidy they pay Bay.) The Island is a tourist gem and should be highlighted, not ignored

One last question. Is the province obligated to provide this service?


I could go on, however, I will say something I shouldn't, maybe I have already.
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  #386  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 4:45 PM
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I briefly saw the map. Is it possible to build a causeway (like the one in Canso)?
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  #387  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 5:02 PM
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I briefly saw the map. Is it possible to build a causeway (like the one in Canso)?
I say no, the population of deer Island and Campobello are so small I cannot see it being feasible.I am not sure How far it is to the NB Mainland, however, I cannot see anyone footing the bill for a bridge. The bay of Fundy is very rough by times another issue to building a bridge.
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  #388  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 5:50 PM
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A causeway is a non starter. The tides in the bay are strong and quick. It would be tough to build and an environmental disaster.

A bridge would be way too expensive (I still can't believe they built a bridge to Miscou Island for a similar population, although the sea ice in the winter up there meant that a ferry would be infeasable).

A ferry is the only option as far as I'm concerned, but is really an absolute necessity to keep this island community viable (and for national border integrity). Campobello is essentially an exclave. This is as much a federal issue as it is provincial.
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  #389  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 8:13 AM
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Great post Monctonrad, I agree with every word. This is a fiasco. AS I understand it Bay Ferries has the contract to provide this route under an agreement with the province.
No, the seasonal Campobello service is provided by East Coast Ferries, a somewhat smaller operation than Bay Ferries. There's no contract with the Province; it's purely a private service that the operator can provide, or not, as he choses. The same company has another route between Deer Island and Maine.

The only relationship East Coast Ferries has with the Province of New Brunswick is that the Province sometimes charters East Coast to provide a replacement ferry on the provincially-operated river ferry system when a provincial vessel is out of service (such as for repairs or during refit).

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Bay Ferries also has the SJ/Digby run , the provincial run near Blacks Harbour to Grand Manan and possibly Wood Islands, PE To Caribou NS. they may also have a few smaller runs.
Bay Ferries provides the SJ-Digby and seasonal Yarmouth-Portland service, and a closely associated company called Northumberland Ferries provides the Wood Islands-Caribou service. These services are part of the legacy of Marine Atlantic (formerly CN Marine) that provided these and the various Newfoundland and Labrador ferry services. Marine Atlantic, still a federal Crown corporation, is now down to the two Newfoundland services: North Sydney to Port-aux-Basques (year-round) and Argentia (seasonal).

The Grand Manan-Blacks Harbour service, the Grand Manan-White Head service, and the Letete-Deer Island service, are run by Coastal Transport Limited. These are the only ferry services that are operated under contract with the Province of New Brunswick.

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IF The President of this company is the same person he was 2 or 3 years ago, he was a high ranking officiaL at Marine Atlantic in Moncton and was my dads senior manager 2 or 3 levels above him.

He retired when Marine closed Moncton office and acquired or started this company.
If you mean Murray Ryder, the last I heard he was still the president of Coastal Transport, but that's been a few years.

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I blame the province and Bay equally for this debacle. 1st. the province for not forcing Bay to quiickly fix/lease another ferry to provide the service. 2nd. Bay Ferries for apparently throwing their hands in the air and saying there is nothing I can do the Ferry broke.

THE Province needs to enforce this contract. (they probably didn't/don't because they save any subsidy they pay Bay.) The Island is a tourist gem and should be highlighted, not ignored
I hope the foregoing has cleared up your understanding of the ferry situation in southern New Brunswick and suggest that your blame is misdirected.

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One last question. Is the province obligated to provide this service?
No.

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could go on, however, I will say something I shouldn't, maybe I have already.
Yep! But, kidding aside, it's not unreasonable to argue for a public ferry service to Campobello. I'm surprised at how rarely this is brought up.
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  #390  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 1:37 PM
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No, the seasonal Campobello service is provided by East Coast Ferries, a somewhat smaller operation than Bay Ferries. There's no contract with the Province; it's purely a private service that the operator can provide, or not, as he choses. The same company has another route between Deer Island and Maine.

The only relationship East Coast Ferries has with the Province of New Brunswick is that the Province sometimes charters East Coast to provide a replacement ferry on the provincially-operated river ferry system when a provincial vessel is out of service (such as for repairs or during refit).



Bay Ferries provides the SJ-Digby and seasonal Yarmouth-Portland service, and a closely associated company called Northumberland Ferries provides the Wood Islands-Caribou service. These services are part of the legacy of Marine Atlantic (formerly CN Marine) that provided these and the various Newfoundland and Labrador ferry services. Marine Atlantic, still a federal Crown corporation, is now down to the two Newfoundland services: North Sydney to Port-aux-Basques (year-round) and Argentia (seasonal).

The Grand Manan-Blacks Harbour service, the Grand Manan-White Head service, and the Letete-Deer Island service, are run by Coastal Transport Limited. These are the only ferry services that are operated under contract with the Province of New Brunswick.



If you mean Murray Ryder, the last I heard he was still the president of Coastal Transport, but that's been a few years.



I hope the foregoing has cleared up your understanding of the ferry situation in southern New Brunswick and suggest that your blame is misdirected.



No.



Yep! But, kidding aside, it's not unreasonable to argue for a public ferry service to Campobello. I'm surprised at how rarely this is brought up.
thank you for setting me straight, I will be mmore careful in the future with my posting.

a couple of questionsd.

Is Murray Ryder''s Coastal an Bay Ferries associated, or two totally separate entities? I KNEW they were different Co's but thought there might be connection?

The Ferry Deer Island to maine, Is that the one to Eastport?

I was on that ferry in the early 80's. The Campobello ferry was down and dad decided to take the ferry to maine and drive around to get to the Island 4 times through Customs and we were on our way home.

A side story I know, however it shows Campobello needs to be better served
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  #391  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 3:36 PM
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thank you for setting me straight, I will be mmore careful in the future with my posting.
Indeed. McKay gave a detailed, thorough and informative response!

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The Ferry Deer Island to maine, Is that the one to Eastport?
Yes, but I'm pretty sure that ferry was completely discontinued several years back. Traffic volumes were low, especially after 9/11. At least the Deer Island/Campobello ferry could count on reliable tourist traffic in the summer time. In addition to being convenient (and all Canadian), it was also scenic and every time I have taken the ferry, I was able to spot pods of porpoises and the occasional whale along the way. The ferry ride itself was worth the journey!

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I was on that ferry in the early 80's. The Campobello ferry was down and dad decided to take the ferry to maine and drive around to get to the Island 4 times through Customs and we were on our way home.

A side story I know, however it shows Campobello needs to be better served
Campobello is being ignored to be sure, especially if you have to leave the island to go to the mainland for services (hospital or legal for example). I recall a case the other year where an island resident could not attend his trial in SJ because he already had a criminal record and could not cross into the States to get back into Canada via St. Stephen!!
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  #392  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 4:08 PM
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Campobello is being ignored to be sure, especially if you have to leave the island to go to the mainland for services (hospital or legal for example). I recall a case the other year where an island resident could not attend his trial in SJ because he already had a criminal record and could not cross into the States to get back into Canada via St. Stephen!![/QUOTE]

I assume it would be the same for the ambulance in the middle of March. If the attendants were transporting someone to St. Stephen or Saint John with a legal issue they might be denied entry. NOT GOOD.
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  #393  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 5:02 PM
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Campobello is being ignored to be sure, especially if you have to leave the island to go to the mainland for services (hospital or legal for example).
Given that Campobello's population makes up 0.1% of NB's total I beg to differ. How much $$$ is too much to help a few hundred people get to and from their island? Especially when it has a land connection with the US.

Grand Manan is a bigger deal, IMO, and their ferry schedule is spotty at best. Neither are gaining much population and have much of a future, at least IMO. It doesn't help NB that everything outside of Portland is effectively on a downward trajectory in Maine population-wise. Places like Lubec, Eastport, and even Calais aren't exactly booming right now, or even staying relatively flat.

On this note, Moncton will be passing Bangor in total metropolitan area size this year or next.
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  #394  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 5:55 PM
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Given that Campobello's population makes up 0.1% of NB's total I beg to differ. How much $$$ is too much to help a few hundred people get to and from their island? Especially when it has a land connection with the US.

Grand Manan is a bigger deal, IMO, and their ferry schedule is spotty at best. Neither are gaining much population and have much of a future, at least IMO. It doesn't help NB that everything outside of Portland is effectively on a downward trajectory in Maine population-wise. Places like Lubec, Eastport, and even Calais aren't exactly booming right now, or even staying relatively flat.

On this note, Moncton will be passing Bangor in total metropolitan area size this year or next.
I imagine you are correct about the bridge to Lubec. If that wasn't there, then Campobello would have a ferry just like Grand Manan and Deer Island.

Times change though. 9/11 changed everything as a matter of fact. Suddenly the border thickened, passports were required, and documentation requirements for commercial transport increased. Suddenly movement to and from the island became problematic for everyone and impossible for some (save for the intermittent and unofficial summer ferry service, which is really nothing more than a barge tied to the side of a small tug).

I view this as a matter of national sovereignty. If Campobello is to be a meaningful part of NB and of Canada then in needs to be treated as such. The residents of Campobello need to have equal access to government services.

Campobello also could have a bright future in tourism if marketed correctly and provided with proper infrastructure. It is after all part of the Quoddy Loop, including attractions such as the Quoddy Head Lighthouse, the FDR International Peace Park, the Chocolate Museum in St. Stephen, Minister's Island and the Algonquin Hotel. These attractions are all Canadian, and could be easily accessible for a weekend getaway if there was a complete all Canadian ferry system available.

Of course, having proper tourism infrastructure in NB may be a vain hope given the glacial progress on the completion of the Fundy Trail, and the generally poor repair of rte 114 in Albert County connecting Fundy Park, Cape Enrage and the Hopewell Rocks to Moncton. Both NS and PEI blow NB out of the water in terms of how well planned their tourism strategies and infrastructure are.........
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  #395  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 5:59 PM
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Times change though. 9/11 changed everything as a matter of fact. Suddenly the border thickened, passports were required, and documentation requirements for commercial transport increased. Suddenly movement to and from the island became problematic for everyone and impossible for some (save for the intermittent and unofficial summer ferry service, which is really nothing more than a barge tied to the side of a small tug).
So...get a passport? I don't see what the overarching difficulty with this is.

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I view this as a matter of national sovereignty. If Campobello is to be a meaningful part of NB and of Canada then in needs to be treated as such. The residents of Campobello need to have equal access to government services.
Sure, this is a fair point, but it's also a limited number of people on the fringe of the province which has bigger fish to fry. Intermittent ferry service would provide this access to government services.

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Campobello also could have a bright future in tourism if marketed correctly and provided with proper infrastructure. It is after all part of the Quoddy Loop, including attractions such as the Quoddy Head Lighthouse, the FDR International Peace Park, the Chocolate Museum in St. Stephen, Minister's Island and the Algonquin Hotel. These attractions are all Canadian, and could be easily accessible for a weekend getaway if there was a complete all Canadian ferry system available.
Also a valid point. Charlotte County is usually pretty busy with tourists when the Canadian dollar is so low. It's interesting to me that you paint a picture of Canadians having a difficult time getting across the border to do this but not the vice versa. Crossing the border is still crossing the border.
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  #396  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 6:22 PM
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So...get a passport? I don't see what the overarching difficulty with this is.
I have a passport, thanks, but for some reason the last few times I crossed the border (at a land crossing), I have been pulled aside for a secondary inspection. This is a piss off, an inconvenience, and has made me a little more disinclined to visit the Excited States (I have not had this problem at airports BTW).

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Sure, this is a fair point, but it's also a limited number of people on the fringe of the province which has bigger fish to fry. Intermittent ferry service would provide this access to government services.
They may be a small population on the fringe of the province, and if they were an outport in rural Newfoundland, they might be prime for relocation to the mainland, but Campobello is right on the US border, and for sovereignty reasons, it is important to keep a viable population on the island. This is over and above the historical value of the island and the fact that it is an attractive and exotic place to live.

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Also a valid point. Charlotte County is usually pretty busy with tourists when the Canadian dollar is so low. It's interesting to me that you paint a picture of Canadians having a difficult time getting across the border to do this but not the vice versa. Crossing the border is still crossing the border.
The difficulties crossing the border run both ways. Returning to Canada can be a pain in the ass too. Sometimes the customs agents seem too overeager collecting excise taxes and duties for Mr. Trudeau and his friends. A day trip to the US (to visit Campobello) sometimes raises their interest more than a week long trip to New York.........
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  #397  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 8:54 PM
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They may be a small population on the fringe of the province, and if they were an outport in rural Newfoundland, they might be prime for relocation to the mainland, but Campobello is right on the US border, and for sovereignty reasons, it is important to keep a viable population on the island. This is over and above the historical value of the island and the fact that it is an attractive and exotic place to live.
Is anybody actually questioning Canada's sovereignty as it relates to the US? If so, i'd be more worried about the hundreds of kilometres of uninhabited border stretching between St. Stephen and Edmundston more than an island or two in the Passamaquoddy.

Even if everything was completely removed from the island it would still be Canadian.

Again, my question from earlier wasn't addressed: How much annual funding is a reasonable amount so that 900 people have a ferry to and from the rest of New Brunswick? $10 million? $20 million?

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The difficulties crossing the border run both ways. Returning to Canada can be a pain in the ass too. Sometimes the customs agents seem too overeager collecting excise taxes and duties for Mr. Trudeau and his friends. A day trip to the US (to visit Campobello) sometimes raises their interest more than a week long trip to New York.........
It is irrelevant who the Prime Minister is at the time of crossing as to whether or not excise taxes and other duties are collected. I know you don't like the current PM but this is becoming excessive.
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  #398  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 11:17 PM
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Actually aren't those islands a bit of a sticky point for the US and Canada?

It was just a few years ago, the US wanted to be sending Natural Gas tankers to/from Maine via the straits between those islands in Passamaquoddy Bay. There was that uproar that eventually cancelled the project partly because they could not secure the route for the tankers to take.

If the US could claim the island, they would (maybe?) have a water route that wouldn't go through Canadian waters. Or at least a route that goes through less Canadian waters.

Granted the projects seem to be completely dead now; but even 2 years ago, being able to claim the island might have kept the project alive longer.
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  #399  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2019, 4:06 AM
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I have a passport, thanks, but for some reason the last few times I crossed the border (at a land crossing), I have been pulled aside for a secondary inspection. This is a piss off, an inconvenience, and has made me a little more disinclined to visit the Excited States (I have not had this problem at airports BTW).



They may be a small population on the fringe of the province, and if they were an outport in rural Newfoundland, they might be prime for relocation to the mainland, but Campobello is right on the US border, and for sovereignty reasons, it is important to keep a viable population on the island. This is over and above the historical value of the island and the fact that it is an attractive and exotic place to live.



The difficulties crossing the border run both ways. Returning to Canada can be a pain in the ass too. Sometimes the customs agents seem too overeager collecting excise taxes and duties for Mr. Trudeau and his friends. A day trip to the US (to visit Campobello) sometimes raises their interest more than a week long trip to New York.........

Three of my 4 trips to the US last year I was pulled aside and my car was searched. One of the times they had the drug dogs go in. I have also never drank or done drugs in my life. I agree it’s a huge hassle!!
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  #400  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2019, 2:44 PM
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Since my wife and I are originally from the Saint John area, we were accustomed to going to the US frequently. Even living in the Moncton area, we would still go to Maine or beyond 5-6 times per year. Since the election of Trump a couple of years ago, we've gone to Maine twice. Once to Bangor, and once to Calais, but we were visiting family in St. Stephen anyway.

I've never had issues going across to the US, and have never had my car searched on the way over in 25+ years. The most they've done is taken a package of oranges we had packed for snacks while camping, or opened the tailgate of my truck to have a quick look. I get hauled into the office on the Canadian side about 1/3 of the time, though. I have nothing to hide, so I don't mind. We hardly ever exceed our allowance anyway.

Maybe because I have been across so often over the years with no issues, I have it a little easier. They obviously keep track of every crossing.

Not going down there is more because of the low dollar and Trump's trade policies. I'd rather support the Canadian economy.
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