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  #4061  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 4:36 PM
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It brings up the whole debate if racism vs preferences. Some far left wing types don’t beleive there should be any presence whatsoever, but realistically everyone of all ethnicities and backgrounds ultimately has a preference for any situation.

I’m like you. If I walk into a bar and it’s mostly natives I’d probably leave. I don’t dislike natives but based on stories and past histories that’s the decision I would probably make.

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There are certainly some ethnic groups that have higher murder rates than the average such as blacks and Indo-Canadians but Natives stand far and above any of them. Natives are generally shunned by Canadian society and much of that is because Canadians associate Natives with crime just as Americans do with their black population.

I am not going to be hypocritical and holier-than-thou here as I freely admit by anti-Native bias. I know it is wrong, based on stereotypes, and is unfair but that does n`t change the way I feel. If I walked into an unknown bar and saw it was full of Natives I would quickly turn around and leave. If I had the option to buy a house at the same price but one was decent on the edge of a town while one was fantastic just a few km away but right beside a Native Reserve I would choose the lesser house near town. I can honestly also say i would not discriminate interms of employment but I would never feel comfortable going to a party where nearly everyone is Native.

Attitudes like mine are common and make integration into the wider community harder for Natives. This combined with poverty, low educational attainment, substandard housing, high levels of alchohol and drug abuse and hence also fetal alchohol syndrome, high rates of incarceration, large families they cannot support, high unemployment, different cultural norms, and a very sexist and mysognistic Native Reserve system makes for a, quite literally, lethal combination.


Native people`s high levels of crime and murder are going to be with Canadians for generations to come.
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  #4062  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by GSS View Post
It brings up the whole debate if racism vs preferences. Some far left wing types don’t beleive there should be any presence whatsoever, but realistically everyone of all ethnicities and backgrounds ultimately has a preference for any situation.

I’m like you. If I walk into a bar and it’s mostly natives I’d probably leave. I don’t dislike natives but based on stories and past histories that’s the decision I would probably make.
It gets touchy for some people when it comes to preferences for intimate partners.

A friend of mine who was also a work colleague had extensive life experience in Africa, his parents having been diplomats. Once I confided to him that I found a new African (from Africa) employee very good looking, and he got all stressed and then asked in hushed tones... "Am I... like... racist... if I don't find African girls attractive?" This was a guy who was politically active in progressive leftist parties, and was staunchly anti-racist and pro-African politically.

The same goes for body preferences. Are you a bad person if you are primarily attracted to skinny people? Tall people? Women with big breasts?
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  #4063  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 6:39 PM
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Toronto is at 4 now.
not too bad... about 2 per week, right on target to break 100 this year

remember, it's just part and parcel of living in a great global city

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  #4064  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by GSS View Post
It brings up the whole debate if racism vs preferences. Some far left wing types don’t beleive there should be any presence whatsoever, but realistically everyone of all ethnicities and backgrounds ultimately has a preference for any situation.

I’m like you. If I walk into a bar and it’s mostly natives I’d probably leave. I don’t dislike natives but based on stories and past histories that’s the decision I would probably make.
I have similar feelings about white people. Virtually every crime ever committed against me, and both times my building was set on fire, it was a white man who did it. They're also the group most likely to send me threatening messages.
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  #4065  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 8:52 PM
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Man your life sounds like shit. Must suck living in Thunder Bay.
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  #4066  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 8:57 PM
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Judging by most of the complaints I read here, I have a feeling I'm still happier than almost everyone else on this site.
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  #4067  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 9:16 PM
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I have similar feelings about white people. Virtually every crime ever committed against me, and both times my building was set on fire, it was a white man who did it. They're also the group most likely to send me threatening messages.
Hey that's totally fair. If you're not being sarcastic and that's how you really feel, it fair a point. If I were native in Canada or Black in the US, white people might not be my preference.
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  #4068  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 9:17 PM
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Most of those guys like like gang members (no, not because they are black, just their look)

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not too bad... about 2 per week, right on target to break 100 this year

remember, it's just part and parcel of living in a great global city

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  #4069  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 9:52 PM
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Most of those guys like like gang members (no, not because they are black, just their look)
Not everyone can see that distinction.
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  #4070  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2019, 2:18 AM
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A lot of them don't necessarily look like gangsters to me. We often don't look our best on ID photos, let alone mugshots.
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  #4071  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2019, 2:47 AM
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Most of those guys like like gang members (no, not because they are black, just their look)
Not really. 3rd guy from the left in the top row actually just looks like a football player to me.
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  #4072  
Old Posted Jan 14, 2019, 4:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GSS View Post
It brings up the whole debate if racism vs preferences. Some far left wing types don’t beleive there should be any presence whatsoever, but realistically everyone of all ethnicities and backgrounds ultimately has a preference for any situation.

I’m like you. If I walk into a bar and it’s mostly natives I’d probably leave. I don’t dislike natives but based on stories and past histories that’s the decision I would probably make.
I don't care personally what the demographic composition of a bar or another place might be, but I may be mindful of the fact that these other guys might care that I am not a member of their in-group. That's what would make me uncomfortable - if they made me feel it. But just being around people who are different and being in the minority doesn't bother me at all.
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  #4073  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2019, 5:18 PM
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Thunder Bay, Ontario

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4981726

From yesterday: death along Highway 527 has been ruled as homicide. The deceased was from Toronto, Ontario.
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Q: ON-11 or ON-17, which one should we twin (assuming there's political will)?

A: Hook up a trailer to the back of the pickup truck and get from one Bay to the other Bay. Then you can understand which is more of a better highway to upgrade.
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  #4074  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2019, 11:00 PM
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That's actually in Shuniah, which is policed by the OPP. It won't be counted in Thunder Bay's homicide rate, so we'll have to keep it in mind when doing calculations.

Most likely, what happened here is a gang member was taken out either by a rival gang or his own, and dumped there. It's happened before: there is a quarry nearby where the body of Scott Dove was dumped back in 1984, and his murder remains unsolved.
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  #4075  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2019, 7:05 PM
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I have similar feelings about white people. Virtually every crime ever committed against me, and both times my building was set on fire, it was a white man who did it. They're also the group most likely to send me threatening messages.
I'm not surprised one iota that you've been victimized/disrespected multiple times by white people. Racism exists everywhere, of course, but it's right up in your face on a daily basis in your neck of the woods. When I visited Northern Ontario and Manitoba the level of racism left me speechless. I've been many times now and have never seen anything close to it anywhere else. If I were an Aboriginal they'd be no way in hell I'd stay in that part of Canada.

It's your home but it's got to take its toll after a while.
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  #4076  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2019, 7:46 PM
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The "racism" I'm experiencing from white people isn't based on appearance though (I'm mostly white to begin with), it's more along the lines of insults and threats being said to me because I am a vocal supporter of indigenous people and indigenous issues. So I'm not even experiencing it anywhere near as much as many people are.

White people/settler colonialists/non-natives, whatever you want to call them, typically react to indigenous rights being brought up as if they're being personally attacked, and then they often lash out. I think when a white person says it to them, they are at first surprised by the situation (I cannot even guess how many times a white person has said racist things around me on the assumption that since I am white, I'm as racist as them), and then feel like they've been misled or infiltrated, which is what leads to the anger and vitriol. It's kind of like how some men were responding to that Gillette ad. Razor commercials were a pro-masculinity safe space, and all of a sudden it's saying "abusing women is wrong!", an idea they're afraid of. As a white person, they feel safe around me, so when I say "our policies with regards to land use in first nations communities puts them at an economic disadvantage and we should change that", well first they get confused because they don't understand the sentence but then they realize I don't agree with "we can build anything we want anywhere we want regardless of indigenous rights to their land" and suddenly I've weaponized a hostile idea within their safe space.

The added challenge to this is that, being a settler colonialist society, nearly every space is white people's safe space, so these conflicts occur frequently.
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  #4077  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2019, 2:19 PM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
The "racism" I'm experiencing from white people isn't based on appearance though (I'm mostly white to begin with), it's more along the lines of insults and threats being said to me because I am a vocal supporter of indigenous people and indigenous issues. So I'm not even experiencing it anywhere near as much as many people are.

White people/settler colonialists/non-natives, whatever you want to call them, typically react to indigenous rights being brought up as if they're being personally attacked, and then they often lash out. I think when a white person says it to them, they are at first surprised by the situation (I cannot even guess how many times a white person has said racist things around me on the assumption that since I am white, I'm as racist as them), and then feel like they've been misled or infiltrated, which is what leads to the anger and vitriol. It's kind of like how some men were responding to that Gillette ad. Razor commercials were a pro-masculinity safe space, and all of a sudden it's saying "abusing women is wrong!", an idea they're afraid of. As a white person, they feel safe around me, so when I say "our policies with regards to land use in first nations communities puts them at an economic disadvantage and we should change that", well first they get confused because they don't understand the sentence but then they realize I don't agree with "we can build anything we want anywhere we want regardless of indigenous rights to their land" and suddenly I've weaponized a hostile idea within their safe space.

The added challenge to this is that, being a settler colonialist society, nearly every space is white people's safe space, so these conflicts occur frequently.
I hate to say it but my sense is that the overall trend in coming years is likely to be the rest of the country becoming more like Thunder Bay, rather than the opposite.
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  #4078  
Old Posted Yesterday, 12:55 AM
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^As long as we continue to pit racial/ethnic/gender groups against each other, there can be no other outcome, yes.

So let's not do that, hey?
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  #4079  
Old Posted Yesterday, 1:11 AM
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^As long as we continue to pit racial/ethnic/gender groups against each other, there can be no other outcome, yes.

So let's not do that, hey?
But what if we are already pitted? And the only way out of the pit is to hash it out over these issues?
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  #4080  
Old Posted Yesterday, 1:30 AM
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^An honest, verbal hashing with both/all sides listening? Yes. We need that.

But I'm afraid that's not where we're headed - there's far too much angry rhetoric and brandishing of swords for this to end with a good, old-fashioned discussion.
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