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  #11421  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 3:25 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
231 'seismic events'. If you want to call them earthquakes, fine, but this really does show you're clutching at straws if the best you can come up with is the earthquake argument. After fracking millions of jobs worldwide, you'd think there would be ample evidence of damage, but there is almost (likely exactly) nothing. So please, come up with something better or pipe down with this discredited nonsense.

Luckily there are some adults in BC, and I wish the province all the best with their natural gas exploitation - it's good for the planet, good for Canada, and good for BC. You should welcome it too.
They may not actually be earthquakes, according to Carole King, people may just be in love.

"I feel the earth move under my feet
I feel the sky tumbling down
I feel my heart start to trembling
Whenever you're around"

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  #11422  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 3:30 AM
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In this thread Albertans sure are doing a great job trying to convince BCers about the pipeline by being aggressive with their language/tone.
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  #11423  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 4:03 AM
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Originally Posted by NetMapel View Post
In this thread Albertans sure are doing a great job trying to convince BCers about the pipeline by being aggressive with their language/tone.
Could you imagine stores being the same way? "BUY MY SHITTY PRODUCT OR THAT MEANS YOU HATE ME!!!! LET MY TRUCK MY SHIT THROUGH YOUR STORE SO I CAN MAKE MONEY!!!"

It's too bad BC's tourism economy can't fuck over Alberta's oil economy the same way Alberta's oil economy has the potential to fuck over BC's tourism economy. Such an uneven fight!
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  #11424  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 4:23 AM
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Yeah, I'd tend to agree with you there - anyone in Vancouver who fears earthquakes should worry much more about the next Cascadia Great One than about fracking.

(You know I'm no fan of fossil fuels, but I'm usually trying to be fair.)
Yep lower mainlanders and islanders will be truly "fracked" when the big one hits. NE BC earthquakes are likely related to water disposal and not fracking. Fracking is short term and the pressure is released after the formation fractures and the sand is pumped in. Water disposal is continuous injection at high pressure and as has been shown in the US can cause multiple small earthquakes.

Oklahoma now has more earthquakes on a regular basis than California. Are they due to fracking?

In a few cases, yes, but in most cases no.  Only a few of the over 2000 magnitude 3 and larger earthquakes since 2009 that have occurred in Oklahoma have been connected to hydraulic fracturing. The majority of earthquakes in Oklahoma are caused by the industrial practice known as "wastewater disposal". Wastewater disposal is a  separate  process in which fluid waste from oil and gas production is injected deep underground far below ground water or drinking water aquifers. In Oklahoma over 90% of the wastewater that is injected is a byproduct of oil extraction process and not waste frack fluid.


https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/oklahoma-n...ience_products
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  #11425  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 4:26 AM
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So it's a byproduct of oil extraction, but not oil extraction that is fracking? What is the oil extraction method called that is producing that waste water that must be disposed of deep underground?
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  #11426  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 4:37 AM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
Could you imagine stores being the same way? "BUY MY SHITTY PRODUCT OR THAT MEANS YOU HATE ME!!!! LET MY TRUCK MY SHIT THROUGH YOUR STORE SO I CAN MAKE MONEY!!!"

It's too bad BC's tourism economy can't fuck over Alberta's oil economy the same way Alberta's oil economy has the potential to fuck over BC's tourism economy. Such an uneven fight!
Lol... what a funny, stupid, elementary, insulting fucking analogy. Funny though. Especially coming from a person in T Bay.

You propose Canada and the rest of the world continue to buy Saudi oil?
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  #11427  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 4:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
Lol... what a funny, stupid, elementary, insulting fucking analogy. Funny though. Especially coming from a person in T Bay.

You propose Canada and the rest of the world continue to buy Saudi oil?
Thank you for literally exemplifying what we were talking about.

In case you haven't been following my posts, I propose Canada and the rest of the world give up on oil as much as possible, especially when it comes to locomotion and electricity generation.
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  #11428  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 4:58 AM
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So it's a byproduct of oil extraction, but not oil extraction that is fracking? What is the oil extraction method called that is producing that waste water that must be disposed of deep underground?
Lots of brackish water is mixed in with oil (70% or 80% water is not uncommon in older oil wells) and with gas (maybe 5%-10% water) along with other impurities. The water can be 10x salter than ocean water so once it is separated from the oil and gas it can't be dumped into the local environment and deep well injection is the best method of disposal. On the other hand Alberta bitumen production generally recycles 100% of produced water to produce more steam to extract the bitumen.
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  #11429  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 5:04 AM
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Originally Posted by jawagord View Post
Lots of brackish water is mixed in with oil (70% or 80% water is not uncommon in older oil wells) and with gas (maybe 5%-10% water) along with other impurities. The water can be 10x salter than ocean water so once it is separated from the oil and gas it can't be dumped into the local environment and deep well injection is the best method of disposal. On the other hand Alberta bitumen production generally recycles 100% of produced water to produce more steam to extract the bitumen.
So the earthquakes are being caused by oil extraction in general, not fracking specifically?

That's good to know. More reason to end the practice.
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  #11430  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 5:37 AM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
Thank you for literally exemplifying what we were talking about.

In case you haven't been following my posts, I propose Canada and the rest of the world give up on oil as much as possible, especially when it comes to locomotion and electricity generation.
I’m really not sure what sort of response you’d expect to receive with your completely insulting post?

“BUY MY SHITTY PRODUCT OR THAT MEANS YOU HATE ME!!!! LET MY TRUCK MY SHIT THROUGH YOUR STORE SO I CAN MAKE MONEY!!!"
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  #11431  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 6:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
I’m really not sure what sort of response you’d expect to receive with your completely insulting post?
Neither am I, honestly.
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  #11432  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 8:33 AM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
So the earthquakes are being caused by oil extraction in general, not fracking specifically?

That's good to know. More reason to end the practice.
Actually yes. Being against oil extraction in general is a rational position to have, but being against fracking specifically is moronic. (Aside from the earthquake non issue)

But since an immediate moratorium on oil extraction would be incredibly damaging, it's better to do what we can now to make things efficient - like using fracking.
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  #11433  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2019, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Hackslack View Post
Lol... what a funny, stupid, elementary, insulting fucking analogy. Funny though. Especially coming from a person in T Bay.

You propose Canada and the rest of the world continue to buy Saudi oil?
BC'ers (like most Canadians) don't seem too particular about where their diesel and gasoline come from, as long as they can get theirs by letting someone else handle the dirty parts of production and refining. Once the pipeline is in the ground, no one cares what's going through it, as long as the local gas station pumps are full.

B.C. is paying some of the most obscenely, disproportionately high gas prices in Canadian history....for the ever-rising fuel needs of Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland, so the gas and diesel comes from two places: through the Trans Mountain pipeline from Edmonton or by sea from abroad. And, since the pipeline is full, the only thing stopping the West Coast from having fuel lineups is by keeping their gas prices high enough to lure enough tankers and gas barges from abroad. These are mostly getting sent from just over the border in Washington State, although McTeague says many British Columbians have likely burned a tank or two of gas from Asia.

The Trans Mountain Expansion would exist almost exclusively to ship diluted bitumen for export while the existing Trans Mountain pipeline would become “Line 1,” a pipeline devoted to shipping “light crude oil,” a category that includes gasoline and diesel. “Trans Mountain said that it does not intend to transport significant amounts of heavy crude oil on Line 1,” reads the National Energy Board report.This could mean that Line 1 would suddenly be able to satisfy all of Coastal B.C.’s fuel needs, significantly lowering their price gap.... The short answer is that extra pipeline capacity from Alberta could indeed lower B.C. gas prices, and is actually the most efficient way to do so (certainly more efficient than the hare-brained B.C. scheme to build more refineries).


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...nadian-history
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  #11434  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 4:53 AM
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It's a shame that the public is afraid of nuclear reactors and the perceived high risk associated with them. I, for one, would love to see several built within Canada...in particular Manitoba if that is possible. It would provide us with a cleaner source of energy with no carbon emissions.
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  #11435  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 5:13 AM
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^Environmentalists have made it almost completely impossible to build nuclear plants so...

Hydro, nuclear, and natural gas. That's what we should be focusing on as a country. Windmills and solar panels are sexy but inefficient - actually, I think they're a blight on the environment but okay. And all they do is make energy more expensive for consumers. Check what's happened in Germany and, if I'm not mistaken, Australian's have similar issues with exorbitant electricity bills.

If Canadians want to personally invest in solar panels, then great. And I like the idea of tax credits for that. But as a national strategy, well, it doesn't seem to jive with the evidence.
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  #11436  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 5:29 AM
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When a region has enough hydro, no reason to use nuclear. But in other places nuclear is a great source for baseload. Hopefully it can again be cheaper than wind plus natural gas.
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  #11437  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 9:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
Australian's have similar issues with exorbitant electricity bills.


The top 3 all have invested heavily into wind and/or solar.
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  #11438  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 1:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce View Post
^Environmentalists have made it almost completely impossible to build nuclear plants so...

Hydro, nuclear, and natural gas. That's what we should be focusing on as a country. Windmills and solar panels are sexy but inefficient - actually, I think they're a blight on the environment but okay. And all they do is make energy more expensive for consumers. Check what's happened in Germany and, if I'm not mistaken, Australian's have similar issues with exorbitant electricity bills.

If Canadians want to personally invest in solar panels, then great. And I like the idea of tax credits for that. But as a national strategy, well, it doesn't seem to jive with the evidence.
Already high energy costs are the reason Australia does not need a carbon tax. An average home running AC in summer can easily run up a $700 electricity bill. My household uses no AC, heat, electric clothes drier or electric cooking appliances and still runs a $200 monthly bill.

The previous owner installed 180 square metres of photovoltaic and a solar water heater. The water heater works ok in the summer. In the winter, it doesn’t do much. That being said, even the cold water coming out of the tap in the winter is still around 23C so cold showers are tolerable. The photovoltaic is a complete waste of time given the maintenance. At best it produces $100 of power in a month as Australia has no feed in tariffs.
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  #11439  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 8:18 PM
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How China's electric car push is shaking up oil markets

Also: Floating solar panels combine function and flair
CBC News · Posted: Jan 11, 2019

Gregor Macdonald, a U.S.-based journalist who has written for The Economist, Nature and the Harvard Business Review, believes 2018 was a pivotal year in the global transition to cleaner energy. Andre Mayer spoke to Macdonald about his new ebook, Oil Fall, and how changes in China are reverberating in the oil industry.

What happened in 2018 that you believe was significant for global oil consumption?

China's vehicle market broke in the direction of electric vehicles [i.e. EV sales went up, despite a drop in overall vehicle sales] in mid-year of 2018, when I was anticipating that might not happen until mid-year 2020. And now that it has broken, it would be a waste of time for people to ponder whether or not internal combustion engines will make a growth comeback in China. The growth prospects for internal combustion engines are over in China.

Why is that significant?

China has a historical record of being able to maximize and supersize and accelerate changes in its economy and its infrastructure based on policy. The United States doesn't have that type of ability to do that. But China does.

...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/w...tsguokePhXRREc
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  #11440  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2019, 9:12 PM
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China has a historical record of being able to maximize and supersize and accelerate changes in its economy and its infrastructure based on policy.
That work's both ways, such as the shift back to coal growth for electricity generation starting in late 2016 along with the sudden capping of solar deployment in June 2018, all in the name of making electricity reliable and cheap.

Quote:
The growth prospects for internal combustion engines are over in China.
Even if that's true, that still means more than 20 million ICE vehicles bought every year, along with planes, ships and chemical plants, all increasing oil demand.

China’s imports of crude oil hit a fresh monthly high in November, customs data showed on Saturday, beating the record set in October on heavy buying from private refiners and trial starts of new mega-refineries.

Crude oil arrivals last month rose 8.5 percent compared with the same month a year ago to 10.43 million barrels per day (bpd), marking the first time China imported more than 10 million bpd. October’s imports were 9.61 million bpd.

For the first 11 months, China imported 418.11 million tonnes of foreign crude oil, or 9.17 million bpd, putting it on track to make this year a record high for imports.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1O706P
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