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  #11781  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2019, 8:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
BC is also not comparable to Washington state, either topographically or in terms of arable land for settlement.
This is clear to anyone who looks at a satellite view of BC and WA. (One couple clicks away on Google Maps.)
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  #11782  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2019, 9:13 PM
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Just catching up on SSP post holidays and was going to point out the same thing as hipster duck. Overall I think we tend to underestimate capacity for agriculture as a primary motivation for intensive settlement. Even if we accept that agriculture is much less reliant on labour than it has been historically, these areas tend to have a higher carrying capacity for any type of intensive human development. Driven by factors like topography, climate or availability of water.

The big exceptions are due to natural resources, but then again these places rarely end up being optimal places to live. Most of those isolated Sudbury's in Siberia are shrinking at a pretty rapid clip.
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  #11783  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2019, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
The big exceptions are due to natural resources, but then again these places rarely end up being optimal places to live. Most of those isolated Sudbury's in Siberia are shrinking at a pretty rapid clip.
A lot of the larger cities (Novosibirsk and Krasnoyarsk in particular, Tyumen to a lesser extent) are seeing population increases as of late. They're cities in the millions but they're not losing population like they were a decade ago.
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  #11784  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2019, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I agree that Russia vs Canada is largely apples vs oranges. But it is not primarily about the USSR.

Russia has been inhabited by a much larger population for a much longer time.

Russians moved to Siberia many centuries ago starting in the 1600s and 1700s.

Siberia today has as many people as all of Canada.
Well, if you think about it, it's not so different, with the timing of European settlement, at least in the eastern parts of Canada, though the Russians did it a bit faster as they were going by land and annexed it continuously as opposed to colonists by sea.

The Russians conquered most of Siberia as New France was getting their start. Maybe a bit more quickly so perhaps, the timing's a bit more contemporaneous with the Spanish conquest of the New World.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...est_of_Siberia





Seems like the proportion of Siberia that is native is also pretty similar to that of Canada -- they are outnumbered by the "white" settlers -- mostly Slavic Russians, with a few other European groups like Volga Germans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Siberia is much larger than Canada, with approximately the same population.

Siberia:
Total Area: 13,100,000 km2 (5,100,000 sq mi)
Population (2017): 36,000,000
Density 2.7/km2 (7.1/sq mi)

Canada:
Total area: 9,984,670 km2 (3,855,100 sq mi) (2nd)
Population, Q4 2018 estimate 37,242,571
Density 3.92/km2 (10.2/sq mi)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


I always love comparing Canada to Siberia. It just seems so appropriate.
If you think about it, demographically, Siberia's kind of a bit like Canada too. Eastern Europeans besides Russians like Ukrainians, Volga Germans, natives and "Asians". lol Even though the majority is Orthodox Christian, here are non-Christian religious minorities like Jews, Muslims, shamanists and even Buddhists.

Canada is thus a bit more "Siberian" demographically (especially western Canada), well comparatively speaking, than say the US or UK.

It would be cool if Canada had wild tigers like Siberia.

Ancient Scythian art from the 5th century BC showing a Siberian tiger attacking a moose.

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  #11785  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2019, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Capsicum View Post
Well, if you think about it, it's not so different, with the timing of European settlement, at least in the eastern parts of Canada, though the Russians did it a bit faster as they were going by land and annexed it continuously as opposed to colonists by sea.

The Russians conquered most of Siberia as New France was getting their start. Maybe a bit more quickly so perhaps, the timing's a bit more contemporaneous with the Spanish conquest of the New World.
]
As I mentioned though, the base population west of the Urals from which Russia colonized Siberia was much larger than anything we've ever seen in Canada, and of course was right next door as opposed to being an ocean away.
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  #11786  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2019, 4:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
As I mentioned though, the base population west of the Urals from which Russia colonized Siberia was much larger than anything we've ever seen in Canada, and of course was right next door as opposed to being an ocean away.
In the long run, though, Russian Siberia's settler descendant proportion was not that much greater relative to the homeland than the Canadian population descended from French or English settlers ended up being compared to France or the UK's homeland population.

European Russia's population is 110 million or so to Siberia's 30-something million (most of which are settler stock), so maybe a quarter of Russians live in Siberia.

If we're considering the 8 or 9 million French-settler descendant Canadians plus maybe double if we count the US dwelling descendants of ethnically French Canadians, then we are also approaching France's New World population being something like a quarter of France's population.

I think the lesser distance and land continuity was key in Russia's earlier conquest of Siberia (able to take huge swathes in the late 1500s to 1600s plus expansions later on), but the harsh climate didn't lead to a population boom. And of course, conquered land being geographically attached to one's own country and never having been seen as anything otherwise (until the brief and temporary expansion into the New World via the Bering Strait to Alaska) was totally different from overseas colonies that later became different, separated and independent.

I'm not sure if the sending population base in terms of France to New France or Britain to the later British North America was larger than European Russia to Siberia, even if the logistics of sending settlers to continuous land adjacent to the homeland was different than across the sea.

Don't know how accurate the population stats of the 1600s or 1700s, but it seemed like the Russian Empire didn't have that much of an advantage over France or Britain in terms of people to send abroad. The population of the Kingdom of France (I heard that France was once the most populous European country through a sizeable part of European history including the Middle Ages) is listed as greater than that of the Tsardom of Russia in much of the time period that settler colonialism was going on, with Wikipedia saying that Russia had 14 million people in 1600-1700 compared to France's 20 million or so.

That said, I have no idea if the pool of settlers to Russian Siberia was drawn geographically from more parts of European Russia west of the Urals, compared to the pool of settlers from France to New France.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lation_in_1600
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lation_in_1700

Today, Russia's population of 144 million is not that hugely different from the two Canadian settler-sending countries of UK and France combined (both of which have near 70 million people each), and both France and Russia are still "homeland-focused" in their political/media/cultural/linguistic sphere of influence (if you call European Russia the homeland) unlike the UK and to some lesser extent Spain, who have their settlers' descendants steal some of their linguistic and cultural influence on the world stage (eg. Anglo-Americans, Latin Americans).

Last edited by Capsicum; Jan 5, 2019 at 4:50 AM.
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  #11787  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2019, 4:43 AM
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Reposting in this thread as it pertains to the jobs report (I posted in the Housing Bubble thread):

The jobs report came out today, and yet again empolyment increased in BC, and was higher than Quebec, Ontario, and Alberta. For 2018 year overall, this is directly from the StatsCan release:

In Ontario, employment grew by 78,000 (+1.1%) in 2018, all in full-time work. The unemployment rate in the province edged down 0.2 percentage points to 5.4%, the second lowest rate among the provinces. Employment gains were recorded in several industries, led by transportation and warehousing, and educational services. These gains were partially offset by declines in wholesale and retail trade as well as in information, culture and recreation.

In 2018, employment in British Columbia increased by 44,000, almost entirely in full-time work. Employment grew by 1.8%, double the national average, while the unemployment rate edged down to 4.4%, still the lowest among the provinces. Employment gains were spread across several industries, led by professional, scientific and technical services. At the same time, declines were recorded in finance, insurance, real estate, rental and leasing.

Following losses in late 2015 and early 2016 in the aftermath of declining oil prices, employment in Alberta recovered in 2017 (+55,000 or +2.4%). Employment continued to grow in 2018, up 22,000 (+0.9%). All the gains in 2018 were in full-time work, and were spread across a number of industries. The unemployment rate in Alberta fell from 7.0% at the end of 2017 to 6.4% at the end of 2018.

Following robust growth in 2017, employment in Quebec was unchanged in 2018. With more people looking for work, the unemployment rate increased by 0.5 percentage points to 5.5% at the end of 2018.


I find all of these sky is falling on BC claims tiresome at this point. We are two years into the correction, prices have been down, and employment in real estate is clearly reflecting that. If this was a crash, it would be pulling everything down and it's not, there are jobs gains in lots of other areas offsetting it.

For all of the talk on the forums of Quebec's economy firing on all cylinders, it isn't actually happening. The unemployment rate is low but job growth is not there. I am not saying that to pick on Quebec, I am just pointing out this fact for people who think BC is imploding. I live and work in a finance related industry here and the economic situation is good.

As for interprovincial migration, the main culprit behind BC's loss in Q2 was to Alberta, the exhcnages with other provinces was largely the same as last year. And migration is heavily lagging actual conditions (ie. people laregely make decisions to leave at least a couple months in advance) so often the numbers are 6 months+ behind economic changes. The affordability issue is no doubt a big concern and affects the numbers, but with the situation in Alberta not improving (or getting worse in many ways) since the summer period that the demographics release was from, we'll see what the next few quarters show. And really people need to look at these movements in context over many years. BC and Alberta led for so long (BC had 21 consecutive quarters of growth, and with the exception of only a few periods, has gained for most of its existence). So playing it now like they are on their knees because of one quarter net loss of 1,200 people is overly dramatic. That is still lower than the average quarterly loss for the past 25 years for most provinces.
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  #11788  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2019, 9:04 AM
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Although certainly NFLD & Alberta are going thru difficult times, all of our cities are doing quite well. The highest unemployment rate of all of our CMAs is Calgary at 7.8% which is hardly devastating. Outside of St.John`s and Calgary every CMA in the country has an unemployment rate below 7% with the vast majority at 6% or under.


This is really great news for all Canadians as it is unhealthy for any country to have wild swings in unemployment rates dependent upon geography. People being able to get work in the province they live in is far superior to having to move to another part of the country to get a job, both economically and socially.
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  #11789  
Old Posted Jan 6, 2019, 1:18 AM
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With unemployment this low attention should be focused on filling positions that go unfilled; either by Canadians or foreigners. We could also focus on shifting workers into higher quality/paying jobs.
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