Panhandlers

[realcity]

All the politicians are talking about is targeting people begging for money. No mention of the drunks fighting and the drug dealing. Start there.

[realcity]

Target this


or start with this?

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by realcity

Target this

what was the fifth pic

[Jon Dalton]

hostile approach, finger still extended?

[matt602]

Drug dealers don't like getting caught doing their business. They become tough guys.

[coalminecanary]

i'm sure they were just trading baseball cards. guy is just tired of having so many doubles. makes him angry at the world.

[flar]

There was no fifth photo because by the time I had taken the fourth photo, the dealer's lookout man at King and James had already confronted me.

Anyway, they were harmless. Just a lot of swearing and attempts to intimidate me. The finger just makes for more dramatic photos.

[SteelTown]

Expect to see more cops in core, chief says

January 28, 2010
Nicole O'Reilly
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/713345

Police Chief Glenn De Caire promises there will be more uniformed police officers walking, cycling and patrolling the downtown core starting this summer.

This focus is largely thanks to more than $500,000 in government funding through the Provincial Anti-Violence Intervention Strategy (PAVIS), earmarked for communities dealing with gun and gang violence.

It's to combat crime but also people's perception of crime, De Caire told The Spectator's editorial board yesterday.

"Crime and crime statistics only tell part of the story," he said, adding that people need to feel safe bringing their families downtown.

Past funding through PAVIS has been used on the integrated guns and gangs work co-ordinated with surrounding communities, including Halton, Brantford and Niagara.

But De Caire wasn't convinced having plainclothes officers patrolling the downtown is the best way to make the area safer and more accessible. He wants more in uniform.

The service will not be hiring new officers; the funding will allow for officers to be redistributed and to work later shifts downtown.

De Caire said he can get more bang for his buck by not hiring new officers, because 22 per cent of the funds would then be used up to cover benefits alone.

A focus on the downtown and increased diversity on the police service are main priorities for De Caire, six weeks into the service's top job.

"I think it's quite a safe place," De Caire said of the downtown. But things change around 7 p.m. to 8 p.m., he added. Everything gets quieter.

The need to ramp up safety and clean up the downtown core has been the focus of several local politicians, particularly since Hamilton won the bid for the 2015 Pan Am Games.

De Caire sees preparing for the Games as a huge opportunity to make necessary improvements.

"We have to do our part ... because the world is coming to Hamilton," he said.

But police alone cannot fix all the downtown's problems. De Caire called for a "holistic approach," incorporating the city, community groups and social services.

Councillor Bob Bratina, who represents the ward, has been critical of what he sees as police inaction against crime in the downtown. His comments led, in part, to the city calling for a downtown stakeholders meeting earlier this month.

But Bratina said he is encouraged by De Caire's promise and the work he has done so far.

"There are already fewer difficult-looking people in the downtown," he said.

Bratina agrees that to save the downtown, "everyone has to work together."

This includes police, public works and economic development, he said.

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Expect to see more cops in core, chief says

January 28, 2010
Nicole O'Reilly
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/713345

Police Chief Glenn De Caire promises there will be more uniformed police officers walking, cycling and patrolling the downtown core starting this summer.

This focus is largely thanks to more than $500,000 in government funding through the Provincial Anti-Violence Intervention Strategy (PAVIS), earmarked for communities dealing with gun and gang violence.

It's to combat crime but also people's perception of crime, De Caire told The Spectator's editorial board yesterday.

"Crime and crime statistics only tell part of the story," he said, adding that people need to feel safe bringing their families downtown.

Past funding through PAVIS has been used on the integrated guns and gangs work co-ordinated with surrounding communities, including Halton, Brantford and Niagara.

But De Caire wasn't convinced having plainclothes officers patrolling the downtown is the best way to make the area safer and more accessible. He wants more in uniform.

The service will not be hiring new officers; the funding will allow for officers to be redistributed and to work later shifts downtown.

De Caire said he can get more bang for his buck by not hiring new officers, because 22 per cent of the funds would then be used up to cover benefits alone.

A focus on the downtown and increased diversity on the police service are main priorities for De Caire, six weeks into the service's top job.

"I think it's quite a safe place," De Caire said of the downtown. But things change around 7 p.m. to 8 p.m., he added. Everything gets quieter.

The need to ramp up safety and clean up the downtown core has been the focus of several local politicians, particularly since Hamilton won the bid for the 2015 Pan Am Games.

De Caire sees preparing for the Games as a huge opportunity to make necessary improvements.

"We have to do our part ... because the world is coming to Hamilton," he said.

But police alone cannot fix all the downtown's problems. De Caire called for a "holistic approach," incorporating the city, community groups and social services.

Councillor Bob Bratina, who represents the ward, has been critical of what he sees as police inaction against crime in the downtown. His comments led, in part, to the city calling for a downtown stakeholders meeting earlier this month.

But Bratina said he is encouraged by De Caire's promise and the work he has done so far.

"There are already fewer difficult-looking people in the downtown," he said.

Bratina agrees that to save the downtown, "everyone has to work together."

This includes police, public works and economic development, he said.

"There are already fewer difficult-looking people in the downtown," this is not a solution. People would soon rather usher them out of downtown than actually help them.

Besides, how often are the homeless actually a threat to anyone? Yes they may look scary, but anyone living on the street would, including anyone in this forum. Would that cause you to start acting violently towards others? I doubt it, and the same can be said for these people.

[SteelTown]

Living on the streets is an option. They can either get mental/addiction help or find a shelter.

[emge]

Shelters are often unsafe places, but I do agree - many people have chosen this option.

Originally Posted by crhayes

"There are already fewer difficult-looking people in the downtown," this is not a solution. People would soon rather usher them out of downtown than actually help them.

Besides, how often are the homeless actually a threat to anyone? Yes they may look scary, but anyone living on the street would, including anyone in this forum. Would that cause you to start acting violently towards others? I doubt it, and the same can be said for these people.

Many people that are homeless are mentally ill and/or struggle with addiction, and violence can be a problem. I wouldn't be totally blithe about it.

However, in de Caire's context I think "difficult-looking" people in that context doesn't primarily mean the homeless or panhandlers (many panhandlers bus in from places they live, and not just in Hamilton do they do that).

This is who "difficult-looking" is for me.

First, those intimidating-loitering type (blocking the sidewalk with your dogs and your buddies). Catcalls, threats and swearing optional, but de rigeur

Two, those who keep pushing drugs or sex (I just love it when my husband tells me that the girl who just got on the bus with us had propositioned him the day before. That's intimidating shit if you keep getting approached or have your spouse being approached in the middle of your most visible public area)

The kids who keep asking if we have weed are just irritating, though I wish the few stores known as hotspots to get weed or "other stuff" would get a thorough investigation and cleanup.

That's who the "difficult-looking" people are for me in the core. Other people like unmarried teen moms (most of whom don't smoke around their kids), the disabled, or the homeless may bother some people on other matters, but they're not intimidating me, getting in my face, or interfering with my enjoyment of public space.

The homeless issue is tough. I can't in good conscience give someone money that I know is probably going to alcohol or drugs, especially when I see the same people at LCBO buying bottles all the time. So I still don't carry change, but I do donate to nonprofits whose programs are actually helpful.

That's me personally... so I'm not unsympathetic.

However, for our city to allow our core to be dominated by those asking for handouts (often much more in the summer when the "seasonal panhandlers" come on out...) that sets a bad precedent and bad image for the rest of the city and especially for first-time visitors.

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by emge

Shelters are often unsafe places, but I do agree - many people have chosen this option.



Many people that are homeless are mentally ill and/or struggle with addiction, and violence can be a problem. I wouldn't be totally blithe about it.

However, in de Caire's context I think "difficult-looking" people in that context doesn't primarily mean the homeless or panhandlers (many panhandlers bus in from places they live, and not just in Hamilton do they do that).

This is who "difficult-looking" is for me.

First, those intimidating-loitering type (blocking the sidewalk with your dogs and your buddies). Catcalls, threats and swearing optional, but de rigeur

Two, those who keep pushing drugs or sex (I just love it when my husband tells me that the girl who just got on the bus with us had propositioned him the day before. That's intimidating shit if you keep getting approached or have your spouse being approached in the middle of your most visible public area)

The kids who keep asking if we have weed are just irritating, though I wish the few stores known as hotspots to get weed or "other stuff" would get a thorough investigation and cleanup.

That's who the "difficult-looking" people are for me in the core. Other people like unmarried teen moms (most of whom don't smoke around their kids), the disabled, or the homeless may bother some people on other matters, but they're not intimidating me, getting in my face, or interfering with my enjoyment of public space.

The homeless issue is tough. I can't in good conscience give someone money that I know is probably going to alcohol or drugs, especially when I see the same people at LCBO buying bottles all the time. So I still don't carry change, but I do donate to nonprofits whose programs are actually helpful.

That's me personally... so I'm not unsympathetic.

However, for our city to allow our core to be dominated by those asking for handouts (often much more in the summer when the "seasonal panhandlers" come on out...) that sets a bad precedent and bad image for the rest of the city and especially for first-time visitors.

I agree with many of your points. However, it's hard to find causation for the state our downtown is in. I'm not sure the homeless there are really the problem in the grand scheme of things. There are plenty of homeless people in every urban center; the difference is they actually have destinations, businesses, condo's with thousands of people living in them etc. In other words, they have heterogeneity of the population and a diversity that causes the homeless to be less contrasted; however, it's always there.

As far as the drug problem goes, I think too much time is wasted on weed dealers. It is illegal and I am not endorsing it, but there are larger fish to fry. Someone selling cocaine or heroine in Gore is a problem, but a quick handshake and exchange of money for weed should be the least of our problems.

[emge]

I agree the homeless are not the primary problem downtown. However, attacking the problem from just one end (trying to attract more people to balance out the demographics) is one thing.

But on the other hand, there's many more productive things you can do with those who are willing to be helped.

Weed isn't one of the biggest problems, but I sure know a lot of lazy white people (I'm white too) who know that making money by dealing weed is the easiest way to get by. In London, in Toronto, in St. Catharines, in Hamilton. I've had a grow-op a few doors down from my house in St. Catharines and relatives into this stuff as more than occasional recreation.

For example, I've had friends who have gotten sober and off the street - in their late twenties, after years of struggle. But they still don't know how they'll pay for school or make rent if they don't deal weed. And its very hard to get out and do honest work when you know weed is an easier (and relatively safe) option compared to the worse problems they dealt with before.

But even for them, I don't support them dealing weed. And I spent a lot of time encouraging them that its better to get a job and separate yourself from that stuff. It's a bad crowd and tainted money, and it is associated with harder stuff, whatever "weed is the least of all the evils and shouldn't be given the time of day" stuff I might theoretically agree to.

So sure, there may be bigger issues than weed, but it's a perception thing. If I see open weed deals happening, I know other types of drug deals are happening, even if I see them less frequently. Seeing any type of drug deal happening is intimidating to people downtown.

I don't know your background - I think you've mentioned you live on the Mountain and you're a student, so perhaps all you've seen is relatively harmless recreational use by some buddies or yourself or co-workers or family, etc.

But even among Mohawk students, there's some guys in one of my husband's classes whose parents actually bought them a house on the Mountain so they wouldn't have to work during school. The guys basically decided to spend our money on weed.. and they failed out. Pot didn't start their terrible attitudes and poor choices and poor use of time. But the accessibility of it - and acceptibility of its use among college students - didn't help the situation.

There's a lot of teenagers who live on their own - some people I know work with them. Some are in and out of group homes. It's very common for kids who aren't living with their parents to pool their assistance money they get for food and shelter, cram into a house, and spend the rest of their money on weed. They'll be living 3 to a room just so there's more money for pizza and pot. Sure, life's been tough to them, but they need help and skills, not permission and accessibility to use the most convenient escape mechanisms available.

And if you know anything about the psychology of addiction and escape mechanisms, it does function as a gateway drug. No, I'm not going to say anything ridiculous about how everyone who starts with weed ends up a heroin addict, but some people do turn to harder stuff - and yes, you do see crack addicts walking barefoot and bowlegged down the street sometimes in downtown, whether that's at Queen/King, Bay/King, Gore Park or Wellington/King.

Sure, marijuana may be a small evil, but it isn't totally harmless, and I don't want to see open drug deals downtown - nor do parents of small children, those who hope to attract businesses, and a lot of other people, as "enlightened" as they may be. I've also done dreadlocks for about nine years now, and that's quite interconnected with 'cannabis culture' as it were, and I still don't want any part of that stuff. And not in my downtown.

We can do so much better as a city. But not until we start dealing with all the problems, not just the worst ones that are relatively harmless.

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by emge

I agree the homeless are not the primary problem downtown. However, attacking the problem from just one end (trying to attract more people to balance out the demographics) is one thing.
[B]
But on the other hand, there's many more pro.....

I lived on the mountain pretty much my whole life; my family still lives there. I currently live right near McMaster.

I do agree with much of what you said, and as a Psychology student I have learned about weed and it's effects as a gateway drug. One of my profs actually specializes in the psychology of drug addiction. This is not always the case though; many people are casual users and never take it any further.

That being said, I do have plenty of friends who smoke weed too often and suffer from motivational deficits, and at times cognitive deficits as well. I have also witnessed it as a gateway to harder drugs.

I just find it funny that people make such a big deal about illegal drugs [not saying that you were, just people in general] that are not addictive, and in many cases don't act as gateway drugs, yet they are perfectly fine with alcohol being legal. We have people living on the streets who are addicted to alcohol and get their fix through ingestion of Listerine - this is a much bigger issue.

Anyways, that's just my two cents. It may have gotten a little bit off topic but it all relates to problems people face, and those problems unfortunately have a negative impact on the rest of the society. I think the saddest part is that it is pretty much inevitable; when it comes down to it there will always be people who have a predisposition for being more reckless than others, and unfortunately as a consequence they are more likely to live this type of lifestyle.

[IronWarrior]

I don't think 'panhandling' is a major problem in our downtown core, its be going on since I was a young child in the early 80's and most likely even before that.. but what I have seen is a increase in drug dealing over the last ten years, primarily in the Gore Park area of downtown. I hear the new chief of police plans to address this problem......? lets get some regular uniformed foot patrols going! and on a very regular basis, most of dealers in the core are most likely users as well.. those types tend to get very paranoid and will most likely move on. Its really like trying to plug multiple holes with rushing water when it comes to drugs though, its a never ending battle. I have seen the evils of what drugs do, primarily crack cocaine, it just sucks! it can take a millionaire, top executive, e.t.c. and turn them into a bum on skid row, just looking for his/her next fix..I have lived near downtown all my life and there has always been the odd alcoholic/listerine drinking bum wondering around, most are harmless but can be a bit intimidating to outsiders I imagine, I remember one guy from downtown from the 80's who would walk up and down king and bellow out 'Got Any Spare Change' just a broken man,the cops would buy him coffee and have a chat with him...addiction is addiction, alcohol or drugs.. its a lifestyle that 'most' people choose and then they just don't know how to get out, it clouds your thinking...sorry for getting a bit of topic...peace

[flar]

I'll repeat it again, but I think Hamilton has significantly fewer panhandlers than most other cities. However, Hamilton does have a large number of homeless people. One reason why there may be fewer visible panhandlers is that Hamilton has some of the best organized social services of any large city in Canada.

A note about the homeless: the stereotypical "bum" with the ragged clothes and wild beard, chugging listerine, makes up only a small proportion of the homeless population. Many of the people using homeless shelters are families and women with children, some even have jobs, many are only homeless for a short period of time, or only once in their entire life. Somewhere between 3000-4000 people use a homeless shelter in Hamilton each year. Maybe 20% are chronically homeless.

As for drugs, I don't care if somebody sells pot out of their home, which is how the majority get it. Selling drugs on the street is another matter, preying on the desperate, ripping people off and introducing a high concentration of undesirable elements to the downtown area. I would like to see pot legalized. Drugs like crack are a scourge and major social problem that need to be treated from an addiction standpoint rather than a legal one. There are too many crack dens in and around downtown Hamilton, and too many people suffering from addictions.

[SteelTown]

Along with panhandling drug trafficing is another major issue. I bet everyone under 30 has been offered drugs in downtown Hamilton.

One time I was at King and James waiting to cross to Jackson Square with probably over 30 people and this one guy was offering crack to us all. We all just ignored him. Now imagine if a tourist or an investor was part of that group of people waiting to cross the street. Ugh. Then of course while crossing and walking up to Jackson Square there's a bunch of panhandlers at the front door. Double ugh!

This is why I wouldn't mind a traffic officer at James and King like Bratina suggested. But a scramble intersection would do as well.

[highwater]

I have nothing useful to add on this issue, just wanted to let you all know I've enjoyed the thoughtful, nuanced, compassionate discussion. Thanks!

[SteelTown]

Police dealing with panhandling at Hamilton intersections

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/stor...nhandlers.html

Drivers at the corner of Queen and Main shouldn't be too surprised to see someone approach the car and ask for money. And Hamilton's downtown councillor is still hoping police can fix that.

The intersection is a common one for panhandlers who approach cars, said Coun. Jason Farr of Ward 2. Some tap on the window, which police define as aggressive.

There are other areas in the city where this can happen. Panhandlers are often at Summers Lane at King, or Hess and King, or Centennial and Barton.

But Queen and Main is “definitely a hot spot,” Farr said. And he's wondering what police can do about it.

The issue was discussed at a task force on cleanliness and safety in the downtown subcommittee meeting on Thursday. Inspector Scott Rastin of Hamilton Police Service updated the group on efforts to deal with "aggressive" panhandlers.

The term “aggressive" can be a gray area, Rastin said. It includes obstructing people, yelling or threatening people, or touching people.

“Sitting there with a cup is not technically aggressive,” Rastin said. “But if the person is going out of their way to obstruct you, be bothersome or challenge you, that's aggressive.”

Approaching cars at intersections is “borderline,” he said. “Tapping on the windows could be classified as aggressive.”

Panhandling is not against the law, Rastin said. Police can charge aggressive panhandlers under the Safe Streets Act.

A more common approach is the Social Navigator program, which sees panhandlers connected with social services that deal with larger issues, whether they be mental health, housing, addiction or access to employment.

Since the program was established in July 2011 by the city, police and emergency medical services, 86 people have been “navigated,” Rastin said.

“We've had a very good success rate,” he said. “Panhandlers come to us now and say they've heard about the program and want to access it.”

Farr has been talking to police about Queen and Main for about two years. He suspects the Social Navigator program is the way to go.

“It's on our radar,” Rastin said.

[Pearlstreet]

I make the walk to The TD bank in Jackson Square often from Victoria Ave and back. I can honestly say given the reason for the trip I am causious and get bent out of shape when approached by people asking for money. So far, in one year of doing this I have never, I repeat, never once made the trip without at least one person asking me. From reasonably dressed to stereotypical panhandlers.. If you want families and women living downtown, this is a must! I am happy to see this conversation happening here.