Social Issues in Hamilton (Homelessness Drug Abuse etc)

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

Ya but they don't need to be lying down to be loitering. They sit and congregate just like they do all over downtown

[TheHonestMaple]

Luckily Wesley Urban Ministries is closing in the spring, and Urban Core has relocated. So hopefully the drug addict and crime issue significantly reduces. That and the condo board will probably choose to hire full time security around the building.

[ScreamingViking]

Reduces here, maybe. Increases elsewhere.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by HamiltonBoyInToronto

Ya but they don't need to be lying down to be loitering. They sit and congregate just like they do all over downtown

..but that's the whole point of a bench, to attract people to sit and talk amongst each other is it not..?

Are we now more concerned with the type of people sitting in these benches? Bench nimfyism haha - "not in my front yard" - shoo shoo you bums lol..

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Reduces here, maybe. Increases elsewhere.

Sadly there is not much you can do about that, can't fix peoples brains or cure addiction, unless you wanna bring back lobotomies

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

..but that's the whole point of a bench, to attract people to sit and talk amongst each other is it not..?

Are we now more concerned with the type of people sitting in these benches? Bench nimfyism haha - "not in my front yard" - shoo shoo you bums lol..



Sadly there is not much you can do about that, can't fix peoples brains or cure addiction, unless you wanna bring back lobotomies

You definitely can cure addiction. Unfortunately that's not what we do in this country.

[HamiltonBoyInToronto]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

..but that's the whole point of a bench, to attract people to sit and talk amongst each other is it not..?

Are we now more concerned with the type of people sitting in these benches? Bench nimfyism haha - "not in my front yard" - shoo shoo you bums lol..

I'm guessing you've never spent half a million dollars on a residence ... and if so I'm sure you wouldn't want Crack heads and drug dealers camped out on your front door step .... not nimbyism... people sitting and chatting is one thing. People camping out and making an unsafe environment on your door step is another


Sadly there is not much you can do about that, can't fix peoples brains or cure addiction, unless you wanna bring back lobotomies

I'm guessing you've never spent half a million dollars on a residence ... and if so I'm sure you wouldn't want Crack heads and drug dealers camped out on your front door step .... not nimbyism... people sitting and chatting is one thing. People camping out and making an unsafe environment on your door step is another

[atnor]

Other than ritsman, who wants to have crack heads camping out their home?

[TheRitsman]

Originally Posted by atnor

Other than ritsman, who wants to have crack heads camping out their home?

You can not want homeless people or those with addictions issues on your front doorstep without completely dehumanizing them and speaking about them as if they're vermin. Homeless people want to be dealing with mental health issues and freezing cold even more than you don't want to see or acknowledge them, I can guarantee you that.

Ironically, the more you push for non-solutions, the more they will cause you issues because homelessness and addictions doesn't go away via wishes, policing, nor any number of interventions that don't respect them as humans first.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by TheRitsman

You can not want homeless people or those with addictions issues on your front doorstep without completely dehumanizing them and speaking about them as if they're vermin. Homeless people want to be dealing with mental health issues and freezing cold even more than you don't want to see or acknowledge them, I can guarantee you that.

Ironically, the more you push for non-solutions, the more they will cause you issues because homelessness and addictions doesn't go away via wishes, policing, nor any number of interventions that don't respect them as humans first.

I recommend you read about the open drug scene in Zurich in the 1980s and early 90s. This is not a homeless problem, it's a drug problem. and until people come to terms with that nothing will change. No amount of handing out food, clothing and wishful thinking is going to put an end to this problem.

[StEC]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I recommend you read about the open drug scene in Zurich in the 1980s and early 90s. This is not a homeless problem, it's a drug problem. and until people come to terms with that nothing will change. No amount of handing out food, clothing and wishful thinking is going to put an end to this problem.

You're only partially correct.... yes there is some degree of a "drug problem" many of the drug problems though are a symptom of "homlessness" to a degree but the majority of it is due to the mental health crisis we have, not just in this city but across our entire country.

We most certainly do have a homeless problem which has been exasperated since the pandemic began and with the insanely fast rising rents (inflation in general) and lack of housing more and more are being forced on to the streets and these are people who have jobs and don't do drugs people who would be considered "normal good people" in your eyes. It was only 5yrs ago headlines were saying almost half of Canadians were one paycheque away from defaulting on rent and bills. 5 YEARS AGO..... look how bad things are now!!!

Then the mental health crisis is affecting EVERYONE rich to some degree and poor especially. And we all know how ones mental health can destroy a persons life without the proper help & support!

You can't simply call this a drug a problem because it's not! There are too many underlying issues that our governments of all levels are not properly addressing and are outright failing us.

We need a massive infusion of cash into mental health supports (facilities, doctors, therapists, nurses, programs, medical leave, rehab centers, detox centers & care facilities for worst cases) and a massive construction boom of housing mainly focused at affordable housing, affordable rentals all aimed at the lower & middle income earners and because housing has become so commodified and a rich persons game all levels of government will need to help fund and incentivise the construction of this much needed housing because it won't get built without the feds intervening. Think wartime housing, it needs to happen again because we are absolutely in a crisis.

We also need to look to Finland's Housing First strategy as proof of strategy for ending homelessness and greatly helping their drug & crime problems!

[urban_planner]

Can someone create a thread to discuss Homelessness?

[Chronamut]

So upon popular request I have made a thread to discuss what ultimately creeps up into EVERY post we make - the issue of homelessness, tent cities, drug abuse, lack of affordable housing etc - what can be done about it, what IS being done about it etc.

Feel free to post about it here.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by urban_planner

Can someone create a thread to discuss Homelessness?

Done.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...09#post9858009

All good points mentioned above btw - everyone has a piece of the puzzle I think. It is important to not see homeless people as vermin, but it is also important they have somewhere to go where they do not harass other people, and plans in place for those that can be helped/cured, and treatment and a safe environment for those who are deemed "lost causes" - where either the drugs have addled their brains too much, they are too old to work or their mental issues are too great for them to properly govern themselves.

Remember those crackheads and bums used to be everyday normal people, but bad decisions and environmental hardships have turned them into what they are now. It's sad to watch.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

You definitely can cure addiction. Unfortunately that's not what we do in this country.

Well to be fair, nobody can cure addiction FOR you - they can only guide YOU to cure it YOURSELF. And if someone just doesn't want to be cured plain and simple, then no, you cannot.

[Chronamut]

In reference to the thread this spawned from - It is important to not see homeless people as vermin, but it is also important they have somewhere to go where they do not harass other people, and plans in place for those that can be helped/cured, and treatment and a safe environment for those who are deemed "lost causes" - where either the drugs have addled their brains too much, they are too old to work or their mental issues are too great for them to properly govern themselves.

Remember those crackheads and bums used to be everyday normal people, but bad decisions and environmental hardships have turned them into what they are now. It's sad to watch.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by StEC

We need a massive infusion of cash into mental health supports (facilities, doctors, therapists, nurses, programs, medical leave, rehab centers, detox centers & care facilities for worst cases)

I totally agree with you on this point, I don't think anyone can disagree there. The way we treat these people is appalling. They desperately need treatment, but we don't give it to them.

With that being said, unfortunately you have it completely backwards. People don't get down on their luck, lose their house because it was too expensive become homeless and then start using drugs. It's the exact opposite, they start using drugs when they had a job and a home. Then it became too expensive for them to sustain both their drug habit and housing, so they go to the streets because they are too addicted to quit their drugs. This is proven in data if you're willing to look.

These activist organizations in our city have a similar understanding to yours, that these are just regular people that are down on their luck. And for some reason that I cannot understand, completely ignore the hardcore drug addiction that 99.9999% of these people suffer from.

The mentality that these homeless people are just victims of the high cost of living in this country does nothing but perpetuates the problem. The truth can make us feel uncomfortable, I get it. It's easier to see someone as a victim, than to confront the problem head on. But the vast vast majority of homeless people have done it to themselves, through hardcore drug addition. That is literally the number one confession of every homeless person once they get back on their feet.

Regarding a new thread just for this topic - it's a good idea, but it's been tried before. This topic comes up organically in various development threads, and I don't think we'll be able to stop that, which I think is fine. In this thread, it happened to come up because we were talking about the lovely benches they are installing in front. It will happen again in other threads. It's a topic that makes people uncomfortable, but unfortunately it's an issue in this city - especially in the downtown core, and people want to discuss it. Putting up a luxury condo across the street from a homeless shelter is going to be an obvious point of discussion.

[urban_planner]

I think a part of the reason so see such a poor view on homeless people is because for so long their existence downtown has played a major part on why it struggled for so long and a lot of ignorant people thought and still think it's a problem only in Hamilton, which of course we know isn't the case.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by urban_planner

I think a part of the reason so see such a poor view on homeless people is because for so long their existence downtown has played a major part on why it struggled for so long and a lot of ignorant people thought and still think it's a problem only in Hamilton, which of course we know isn't the case.

I mean, the leaving needles in parks where children play, the violent attacks, the thefts, the defecation on the ground, the screaming at random people.... that all doesn't help either.

[Chronamut]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I mean, the leaving needles in parks where children play, the violent attacks, the thefts, the defecation on the ground, the screaming at random people.... that all doesn't help either.

or the wandering up to cars and knocking on their windows asking if they have change.. or standing on islands at intersections with signs.. like has anyone EVER given these people money that way?

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

or the wandering up to cars and knocking on their windows asking if they have change.. or standing on islands at intersections with signs.. like has anyone EVER given these people money that way?

Check out videos of East Hastings in Vancouver lately. It is absolutely wild. I hope that doesn't happen here but some progressive politicians on our city council seem to want it