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  #21  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2023, 5:11 AM
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ScreamingViking ScreamingViking is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronamut View Post
or standing on islands at intersections with signs.. like has anyone EVER given these people money that way?
I have. Rarely do I have "small change" but there are a few people I've seen regularly to whom I've given a couple of bucks. One I recall is a woman with clearly visible health issues. Another guy just seemed to want to talk. Another is a man with physical limitations who sits outside an LCBO and is very polite and gracious... last time I saw him bad weather was predicted, and I asked him if he had some place to go (he said he did, but I was doubtful). I prefer to donate to agencies and associations, but if I have some means in-pocket to give that I won't miss, I try to help when I can.
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  #22  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2023, 8:30 PM
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TheHonestMaple TheHonestMaple is offline
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Fantastic piece out of the National Post this morning on the disaster that is Vancouver's Downtown East Side and failing progressive drug policies.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/may...ame-and-stigma

Adam Pankratz: Maybe B.C.'s drug addicts should have to face shame and stigma
Anyone who has driven or walked down East Hastings can tell you that the lax approach to drugs has only created more suffering

Author of the article:Adam Pankratz, Special to National Post




VANCOUVER — B.C. has decriminalized drug possession of 2.5 grams of cocaine, MDMA, meth and opioids, including heroin. Those in favour hail it as a victory against stigma, while opponents worry it will have unintended consequences. We will leave the public policy debate to others, but will ask another very pertinent question: what’s wrong with stigma?

Article content
We, as a society claim we don’t like to stigmatize or judge and say shame is bad. But this is to act foolishly: shame and stigma are how we show errant members of society that they need to reform their ways and change for the better. Looking around the world these days, one can’t help but feel that a little more shame would go a long way.

Despite shame and stigma’s positive restraint effect on many human urges, anyone with a desire to push through a “progressive change” for the alleged better will inevitably raise the negative spectre of stigma and shame in the face of opposition, often followed by raising the bedfellow of victim blaming. This, they feel, lends credence to their argument. The thought of shaming or stigmatizing someone will, so the social justice warrior hopes, compel a meek capitulation from their opponents, who ultimately seek not to be labelled regressive and heartless.

Article content
The notion that stigma is harmful to those hurting themselves or others is obviously disingenuous. Paradoxically, it is also its own form of shame and stigma. The difference is simply directional: progressive shaming confers virtue on those who mete it out for the right reasons, while regressive shame is the scorn poured on those who are uncomfortable with the idea that previously illegal or harmful activity should no longer be condemned.

We in B.C. have a drug problem to be sure. Opioid deaths are intolerably high. The people afflicted need support, but incredulity at the decriminalization approach should be taken more seriously than it currently is. Anyone in Vancouver who has driven or, God forbid, walked down East Hastings in our Downtown Eastside can tell you that the lax approach taken in recent years has only created more suffering.

Article content
The now godforsaken hell hole of human misery that the neighbourhood has become, has been a long slow slide that began with neglect and is fuelled by indifferent tolerance to drug abuse and crime. For years, politicians, most recently Vancouver’s former mayor Kennedy Stewart, have sought more allegedly progressive and less confrontational solutions to rampant drug use and addiction. The results are easily observable to any visitor to that area of town: tent-filled and garbage strewn streets of human suffering for blocks and blocks in Vancouver’s historic centre. All this, despite a price tag of $5 billion per year on social services. It’s not working and it’s hard to see how further decriminalization will improve the situation.

Article content
Indeed, if the non-response to the homeless (and drug) problem in other Vancouver neighbourhoods is any indication, it won’t. In 2020, a homeless encampment in the Strathcona neighbourhood that was left to fester ended with citizens attacked and newborn babies being threatened with rape and death with a stick. Call me old fashioned, but I’d like to stigmatize that kind of behaviour rather that pursue decriminalization.

“Decriminalization” or “following the science” are terms that have a sweet progressive ring and as such is the oft-favoured option for (non) action of politicians on the entire west coast. The problem is, the science proves very difficult indeed to follow, if it exists at all. Who can forget California’s effective decriminalization of theft under $950? How’s that working out? The shuttered doors of San Francisco shops scream a tale of woe, sorrow and business dreams shattered. The rampant drug use there is also no positive harbinger for Vancouver residents.

Article content
In Portland, following riots which torched and smashed the city in 2020, the police referred over 1,000 cases to the district attorney, which declined to prosecute over 70 per cent of them. Portland, a city once renowned for its cafés, breweries and nightlife is a hollow, unsafe shell of its former self.

It seems reasonable to ask if a little bit of good ol’ shame and stigma here wouldn’t help matters. Shame of stealing. Shame of vandalism. Shame of drug use. We don’t value these attributes as a society, so why no stigma? Were my daughter to behave in any of the above described ways, shame would be first on the list, followed immediately by stigma and repentance.

In writing that, I can hear the twitter elect sharpening their blades ready to pounce with murderous relish upon me and my ilk to hurl such opinions in the trash. They would, as it were, seek to shame me to more considerate, empathetic and politically acceptable opinions and behaviours. Shame, it would seem, is actually fine; it’s only the political direction of its application that makes it offensive.


City of Vancouver workers clean the sidewalks in the Downtown Eastside with a police escort in Vancouver, BC., on June 19, 2022. (NICK PROCAYLO/PNG)

National Post

Last edited by TheHonestMaple; Feb 6, 2023 at 8:47 PM.
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  #23  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2023, 10:50 PM
downtown_eddie_brown downtown_eddie_brown is offline
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"Fantastic piece out of the National Post" is an oxymoron. If shame and stigma did anything to curb drug addition the US would be the most drug-free country on earth.
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  #24  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2023, 8:32 PM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
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Vancouver's downtown eastside was a disaster 40 years ago when I made my first visit to the city. I remember stepping around and over the junkies back then. Anything they can do to fix it is an improvement. The National post is a right wing rag promoting the talking points of the CPC.
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  #25  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2023, 7:55 PM
ZTrade ZTrade is offline
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City council trying to pass an injection site at 746 Barton St E tomorrow morning. Terrible location for an injection site.

200m from St. Ann Catholic Elementary
500m from Prince of Wales Elementary
746 Barton St E backs up onto residential properties

What is The AIDS Network and Hamilton City Council thinking? Specifically Nrinder Nann and The AIDS Network.
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  #26  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2023, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ZTrade View Post
City council trying to pass an injection site at 746 Barton St E tomorrow morning. Terrible location for an injection site.

200m from St. Ann Catholic Elementary
500m from Prince of Wales Elementary
746 Barton St E backs up onto residential properties

What is The AIDS Network and Hamilton City Council thinking? Specifically Nrinder Nann and The AIDS Network.
The way Nann has handled this proposal is absolutely awful all done in secrecy and shutting the public out. Residents keep asking her for the need of another safe injection site in Ward 3 when there is one already being built on Cannon/Ashley. Data shows the hotspot for ODs is in Ward 2 but Nann runs her ward like a dictatorship, I'm surprised people voted for her again.
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  #27  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2023, 10:27 PM
Fruitloops Fruitloops is offline
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Know the players. Nann is just a schill for Green as will be jama....extreme left moniker for this group doesnt go far enough do your DD.
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  #28  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 3:04 AM
downtown_eddie_brown downtown_eddie_brown is offline
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City council trying to pass an injection site at 746 Barton St E tomorrow morning. Terrible location for an injection site.
its the perfect location

Quote:
just a schill for Green as will be jama
sounds great
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  #29  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 3:17 AM
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Originally Posted by downtown_eddie_brown View Post
its the perfect location



sounds great
How is it a "perfect location", it's located right beside a school...
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  #30  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 3:27 AM
ZTrade ZTrade is offline
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Originally Posted by downtown_eddie_brown View Post
its the perfect location



sounds great

I provided reasons why it is not. I would like to hear why this location is "perfect".
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  #31  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 2:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn View Post
How is it a "perfect location", it's located right beside a school...
there are lots of schools in Hamilton. Unless you put it up in the industrial area, it's going to be close to a school. The old Hamilton Urban Core safe injection site on Rebecca was 200 metres from Dr. J.E. Davey Elementary School. That's the nature of an urban setting.
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  #32  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 2:22 PM
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TheHonestMaple TheHonestMaple is offline
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I'd prefer to see my tax money spent on police and enforcing the law.

Funny how not one of the radicals that took over City Council the other week actually own a house and pay taxes in this city. All Mac students with lots of time on their hands and no skin in the game.
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  #33  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 3:52 PM
Fruitloops Fruitloops is offline
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two things I have never seen. A flying pig.
and...
a sanctimonious radical council member or legal services group offer to house these folks on their lawns, parks, schools where their children go.

Perhaps someone can publish the addresses of these arseholes so we can hand out flyers at the encampments. I will.
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  #34  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 4:07 PM
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TheHonestMaple TheHonestMaple is offline
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Originally Posted by Fruitloops View Post
two things I have never seen. A flying pig.
and...
a sanctimonious radical council member or legal services group offer to house these folks on their lawns, parks, schools where their children go.

Perhaps someone can publish the addresses of these arseholes so we can hand out flyers at the encampments. I will.
My house backs onto a park that had an encampment last summer. It was unbelievable. Parties all night, open drug use, feces in the park, needles left in the grass for kids to step on. Wild stuff. No reasonable person would tolerate that behavior. But a certain few councillors, and a bunch of radical bleed your heart out progressive activists are totally sheltered from it.
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  #35  
Old Posted Feb 23, 2023, 6:52 PM
PaperSun PaperSun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitloops View Post
two things I have never seen. A flying pig.
and...
a sanctimonious radical council member or legal services group offer to house these folks on their lawns, parks, schools where their children go.

Perhaps someone can publish the addresses of these arseholes so we can hand out flyers at the encampments. I will.
Some of their addressed are available on the City of Hamilton website under List of Certified Candidates. I expect Nann to be accommodating if anyone shows up at her house and asks to shoot up in her backyard.
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  #36  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2023, 8:40 PM
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2023, 9:53 PM
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Nrinder Nann named in Integrity Commissioner complaint about safe injection site

Nrinder Nann named in Integrity Commissioner complaint about safe injection site

A number of residents in the Barton-Gage-Sherman Neighbourhood are launching a complaint to the integrity commissioner against Ward Three Councillor Nrinder Nann over circumstances around the February meeting of Hamilton Council that approved a safe injection site at 746 Barton Street East.

The complaint stems from the way the matter got in front of council at a meeting. Even though a glance at the agenda showed nothing to suggest a motion approving the Barton Street location was going to be presented to members, a number of delegations showed up to support the injection site. Whether they were tipped off there was going to be a walk-on motion approving the site is not clear, but they were there in force and received a cordial welcome by councillors. A less cordial welcome was accorded to Walter Furlan, a Barton Street Resident and business owner who ran an unsuccessful campaign against Nann in the October election on the issue of the site. Furlan who had a 1,200-signature petition opposing the site said he only heard about the meeting by accident.

After several delegate supporting the site were heard, Councillor Esther Pauls pointedly asked Mayor Andrea Horwath if the site was going to come to a vote that day. The mayor replied awkwardly, saying there might be an opportunity later in the meeting for a vote. But then when the delegations were finished, it was the Mayor herself who brought forward a walk-on motion for council to endorse the Barton Street site.

The news release that supports a more than 100-page submission to the integrity commissioner reads, “Questionable procedural issues took place during the meeting. A councillor asked the chair directly whether a motion to approve the site would come forward. The answer was evasive but the result was in fact a walk on motion approving the disputed site in spite of the residents’ delegation stating that they had not been properly consulted, that they were not advised of the meeting, and that the agenda did not include a motion regarding 746 Barton Street East. Further, when final approval came before City Council February 22, 2023 in the face of concerns expressed by some members of council, Councillor Nann proceeded to make incendiary remarks in describing those opposing the site.”

The release continues, “Councillor Nann has stressed the need for a safe injection site which is not in dispute. Residents feel however that she has failed to address neighbourhood concerns regarding the specific address, 746 Barton Street East because of its proximity to daycares, an elementary school, its students and other sensitive and vulnerable populations including services for people with disabilities.”

The federal and provincial governments still have to approve the injection site

Source: https://bayobserver.ca/nrinder-nann-...njection-site/
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2023, 11:02 PM
PaperSun PaperSun is offline
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I hope something comes of this, Nann seems to be getting out of control and really taking on the dictator approach. I've tried multiple times to have a meaningful debate with her on certain parts of her agenda and she is quick to throw words like "privileged" without coming back with a counter point.
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2023, 11:28 PM
Fruitloops Fruitloops is offline
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Matt Green taught her well.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2023, 12:10 AM
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TheHonestMaple TheHonestMaple is offline
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She claims the moral high ground, and anyone who disagrees is 'privileged', 'hateful' or spreading 'misinformation'.
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