DENVER | Transportation Thread

[Hatman]

There is some nice balance to those pictures... the smooth, swooping, and eligant lines of the station canopy contrasted with the harsh and blunt-ended EMU's. A sort of Yin and Yang, if you will.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by LAM

Denver NEVER gets the good (transit) stuff!

Denver is getting the better deal, by far. Denver's rail lines are going to be WAY more useful than Austin's. That Austin train is pretty, but it goes nowhere and doesn't come often. Daily ridership is less than 3,000.

That's less than half the ridership of Boulder's SKIP bus, for comparison.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Denver is getting the better deal, by far. Denver's rail lines are going to be WAY more useful than Austin's. That Austin train is pretty, but it goes nowhere and doesn't come often. Daily ridership is less than 3,000.

That's less than half the ridership of Boulder's SKIP bus, for comparison.

I'm not criticizing the routes but rather the design of the trains themselves. No matter what they use it will be popular why not have something that looks from this century and not 1976 Philadelphia.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by BG918

I'm not criticizing the routes but rather the design of the trains themselves. No matter what they use it will be popular why not have something that looks from this century and not 1976 Philadelphia.

Well, if you're referring to our light rail vehicles, if you knew the guy who was running RTD's light rail operations back in the day, you'd understand. Because *he* looked like he was straight out of 1976 Philadelphia. Or actually, he probably lived across the river in Jersey and commuted into Philly.

[LAM]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Denver is getting the better deal, by far. Denver's rail lines are going to be WAY more useful than Austin's. That Austin train is pretty, but it goes nowhere and doesn't come often. Daily ridership is less than 3,000.

That's less than half the ridership of Boulder's SKIP bus, for comparison.

There's really no reason why we can't still have something that doesn't, as BG918 says, look like its from 1976 Philadelphia. We may be getting the better ridership, but it just looks like trash.

Although I remember visiting my sister in 1980'ish Philadelphia and thought they had pretty cool buses back then. They looked better than 2014 buses in Denver.

[TakeFive]

Regarding light rail:

per lasplash.com

Phoenix, like many places, chose the Japanese made rolling stock by Kinki Sharyo Co., Ltd. My characteristic 1st response was how sleek and cool they looked. But like anything you get used to seeing them and their appeal fades to ordinary.

I just really like Denver's light rail cars. Call it retro or whatever but I think they well reflect the Denver persona.

With respect to commuter rail:
It's hard not to like the Stadler GTW made by Stadler Rail of Switzerland. Since I'm not familiar with how or why the choice by RTD was made it's hard to comment beyond the exterior appearance. I am OK with with the Hyundai Rotem cars though as I think the "classic" look has its own appeal as well.

[TakeFive]

Worthy of consideration?

flicker.com

This is from Baltimore's circulator system which is having issues but circulators are used in other metro areas as well.

It could be great for providing service to certain neighborhoods or corridors like Highlands, Cherry Creek, South Colorado Blvd, City Park, Auraria/Lincoln Park/Denver Medical, DU etc. I'd think a pay-to-ride might be better than being free - unless it was a downtown route like Brighton Blvd to 38th Street and back on Walnut Street, for example.. Rather than being a feeder such a service might do as well as an intra-day service - say from 9:00 am to 3:00 pm and from 7:00 pm to 11:00 pm (for example) which might allow for more efficient driver scheduling.

[jubguy3]

Ooh! We have those same Van Hool buses and they are really ugly inside. There is a bunch of padding on the walls and the middle of the bus is occupied by the engine, some seats look like standing seats on Ryan Air, etc. The one time I rode them, they broke down.

[PLANSIT]

I would love to see the Van Hool Exquicity line come over to the States:

[BG918]

^ Those would be awesome on the 16th St Mall.

[jubguy3]

It looks like a trolleybus version exists too: http://www.vanhool.be/eng/public%20t...TrolleyEN.html

[jubguy3]

They also seem to be very quiet and have everything a tram has except tracks
• Video Link

[LAM]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Regarding light rail:


Phoenix, like many places, chose the Japanese made rolling stock by Kinki Sharyo Co., Ltd. My characteristic 1st response was how sleek and cool they looked. But like anything you get used to seeing them and their appeal fades to ordinary.

You know, I never get tired of looking at my wife! I still think she's sleek and cool.

That being said, I don't really buy your logic at all. A city full of ugliness is ugly. A city filled with beautiful things is beautiful.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by LAM

You know, I never get tired of looking at my wife! I still think she's sleek and cool.

That being said, I don't really buy your logic at all. A city full of ugliness is ugly. A city filled with beautiful things is beautiful.

I agree. The siemens trains may be emblematic of Denver but other systems use them too, and holding on to outdated, overused vehicles because they look denver-y is ignorant.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by jubguy3

I agree. The siemens trains may be emblematic of Denver but other systems use them too, and holding on to outdated, overused vehicles because they look denver-y is ignorant.

So's bitching about the looks of vehicles that still have another ten years or so of service life before they need to be replaced. RTD will replace the Seimen's SD-100 and 160's as they need to be. This is a discussion that RTD has had with Seimen's and they are looking at replacing the initial SD-100's with a variant of the S-200 starting in 2020 or so, IIRC.

As for the Silverliner V's that RTD purchased, they did so because it was cheaper to piggyback on SEPTA's vehicle replacement program than to do a small-order from another manufacturer. RTD is nothing if not cheap, cheap, cheap.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by LAM

You know, I never get tired of looking at my wife! I still think she's sleek and cool.

That being said, I don't really buy your logic at all. A city full of ugliness is ugly. A city filled with beautiful things is beautiful.

LOL... Speaking of logic are you saying that women who don't look like your wife are ugly? No reflection on your wife but just speaking for myself I have been privileged to know a couple of airheads; not that they didn't have their positive attributes of course.

For many, many years Mercedes kept their same "style;" it was what was under the hood that mattered. I've tended to favor function over style.

Perhaps a little context would be appropriate. The decision on the Siemens light rail cars was made over 20 years ago and I don't recall the process. The T-REX vote came in 1999. Whether any consideration was given at that time to switching horses or styles I don't recall but once they decided to go with the same light rail cars, then the rest of the system logically would stay with the same. This all occurred prior to the Fastracks vote. Had Denver not made their selection until the mid-2000's like many other cities the choice might have been different.

With respect to the commuter rail cars I do prefer the "sleek" model, all things being equal; but given the size of the investment I'd guess that styling was well down the list of priorities. I can't speak to their "logic" however.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

So's bitching about the looks of vehicles that still have another ten years or so of service life before they need to be replaced. RTD will replace the Seimen's SD-100 and 160's as they need to be. This is a discussion that RTD has had with Seimen's and they are looking at replacing the initial SD-100's with a variant of the S-200 starting in 2020 or so, IIRC.

As for the Silverliner V's that RTD purchased, they did so because it was cheaper to piggyback on SEPTA's vehicle replacement program than to do a small-order from another manufacturer. RTD is nothing if not cheap, cheap, cheap.

That throws some (needed) light on the topic.

It's also worth noting that the estimated cost of Fastracks escalated to as high as $7.8 billion from the original "promise" of $4.7 billion. Had they gone back to voters for a tax increase so as not to be "cheap, cheap, cheap" any guesses on how that would have gone?

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

That throws some (needed) light on the topic.

It's also worth noting that the estimated cost of Fastracks escalated to as high as $7.8 million from the original "promise" of $4.7 million. Had they gone back to voters for a tax increase so as not to be "cheap, cheap, cheap" any guesses on how that would have gone?

You should change those M's to B's and then you'd be spot on.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

This is from Baltimore's circulator system which is having issues but circulators are used in other metro areas as well.

lol. The funny thing is that Baltimore's Circulator is based on DC's Circulator, and DC's Circulator was originally based on Denver's 16th Mall shuttle. Full circle.

Anyway, Baltimore's Circulator is in the red because it's free to ride. Of course it's in the red. Its fare recovery rate is zero. That's the whole point.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

You should change those M's to B's and then you'd be spot on.

LOL, Thanks, fixed.