LAS VEGAS | Boom Project Rundown! 2.0

[heyyoucharlie]

[/QUOTE]
from: Downtown Joe


Build it... Build it now!!!... As much as I enjoy First Friday, build this NOW!!!...

It would be a great addition to the Strip/Downtown area!!!

[Silas]

The difference between the LV Strip and Downtown - "The Sale of Two Titties" -- I mean "The Tale of Two Cities".

This should be taught in all economic, poli sci., government planning, social mumbo jumbo classes.

Bottom line - you can not have your extreme liberal social welfare cake and eat it too. The reason downtown will always suck sh*t is because of the liberal government policies. The freedom away from these government policies - i.e. 'The Strip' is thriving.

For this discussion, the relevance is that NO PROJECT WILL HAPPEN IN THIS AREA. All progress will be North of Sahara.

[Silas]

umm, I mean South of Sahara. or whatever.

[heyyoucharlie]

Honestly, I think if they get one project going up there... we will see a rush projects... The Strat will be improved, along with the land across the street will get developed...

Who wouldn't like to see this project go down???

[highriseLV]

Originally Posted by mdiederi

Another thing to remember is that CityCenter is not even in the city limits, it's in the township of Paradise, so maybe it should be called "TownCenter".

Another thing I've been wondering about is what kind of access will CityCenter have to the freeway? Will they make Harmon an actual interchange? Right now it's just an overpass and doesn't connect to the freeway. So if you live at CityCenter and want to jump on the freeway you will have to drive through the gridlock around Bellagio or NYNY, or take Frank Sinatra all the way up to Spring Mountain or down to Russell, or you could connect to Dean Martin and hook up with Flamingo on the other side. Harmon never was a major intersection on the Strip in the past.

Exactly! I read everyone's posts almost on a daily basis, but rarely post myself - mainly because I believe CC is just another HUGE tourist trap. To me, that project makes a lot of sense for MGM, and people who have more money than they know what to do with and just want to be able to say that they own something in CC, or on the strip. To think that someone would consider living in that project on a full time basis, or even a second home that they plan on spending any good amount of time in, is a joke! I have lived in Vegas for almost ten years, and I avoid the strip like the plague. If you lived in CC, and worked in CC or neighboring property - okay, maybe. But honestly, have these buyers ever driven LV BLVD, or any street that runs perpendicular? To deal with that mess on a daily basis, you'd have to be out of your mind. Yes, I am a huge fan of downtown, because after all, it is the true center of the city, and the only place in Clark County that makes sense for people to live in a high rise on a full time basis. I know there are other projects like One LV, Queensridge, and even Sullivan Square - but where are they, and walking out the front door of the lobby, what do they have? They have the developer's idea for restaurants and shops, and the other amenities of the complex. It isn't the same as other great cities across the country where those who live in the true core of the city have the freedom to step out of the lobby and walk to other buildings for all of their everyday needs and wants - without having to fight with hundreds of thousands of tourists each day. Architecturally, CC is may be the next wonder of the world - but let's get real - it is the next "newer, bigger, better" LV tourist trap.

[JonVegas]

Originally Posted by Silas

The difference between the LV Strip and Downtown - "The Sale of Two Titties" -- I mean "The Tale of Two Cities".

This should be taught in all economic, poli sci., government planning, social mumbo jumbo classes.

Bottom line - you can not have your extreme liberal social welfare cake and eat it too. The reason downtown will always suck sh*t is because of the liberal government policies. The freedom away from these government policies - i.e. 'The Strip' is thriving.

For this discussion, the relevance is that NO PROJECT WILL HAPPEN IN THIS AREA. All progress will be North of Sahara.

Downtown is pretty thriving right now despite what you may think. All my friends and I frequent the cool newer areas of Fremont: The Griffin, Beauty Bar, Hennessey's, BunkHouse. I've seen shows at Celebrity (great venue). I eat all the time at the 777. Downtown is totally "in" right now. It's like a hidden classy treasure that is full of young people every night.
I can't imagine ever meeting anyone cool on the strip. It's just full of creeps and cougars.
I shudder every time someone wants to go down to the strip. It's a hassle.

You totally lost me on the liberal policies part btw.

[BruceH]

Originally Posted by highriseLV

Exactly! I read everyone's posts almost on a daily basis, but rarely post myself - mainly because I believe CC is just another HUGE tourist trap. To me, that project makes a lot of sense for MGM, and people who have more money than they know what to do with and just want to be able to say that they own something in CC, or on the strip. To think that someone would consider living in that project on a full time basis, or even a second home that they plan on spending any good amount of time in, is a joke! I have lived in Vegas for almost ten years, and I avoid the strip like the plague. If you lived in CC, and worked in CC or neighboring property - okay, maybe. But honestly, have these buyers ever driven LV BLVD, or any street that runs perpendicular? To deal with that mess on a daily basis, you'd have to be out of your mind. Yes, I am a huge fan of downtown, because after all, it is the true center of the city, and the only place in Clark County that makes sense for people to live in a high rise on a full time basis. I know there are other projects like One LV, Queensridge, and even Sullivan Square - but where are they, and walking out the front door of the lobby, what do they have? They have the developer's idea for restaurants and shops, and the other amenities of the complex. It isn't the same as other great cities across the country where those who live in the true core of the city have the freedom to step out of the lobby and walk to other buildings for all of their everyday needs and wants - without having to fight with hundreds of thousands of tourists each day. Architecturally, CC is may be the next wonder of the world - but let's get real - it is the next "newer, bigger, better" LV tourist trap.

It's more like urban versus suburban living. Our clients who bought CC already come from cities like Shanghai, Tokyo, London, Toronto, NYC etc where they are use to urban and high rise living. I live on the Strip in a high rise and love it. Can't stand the traffic going to suburbia. I can get to restaurants, airport, services etc all around the Strip in 15-20 minutes. Trip to Summerlin now takes about 30 to 45 minutes or worse depending on traffic. Demand for CC is high as are luxury condos like Sky Las Vegas, Turnberry Place and Turnberry Towers etc for residential living in the core Strip area. It will only get better with the billions of dollars being invested in all the new casino hotels in the main and North Strip areas.

[BruceH]

Check out this article. Las Vegas is #2 for Job Growth.Vegas is getting stronger and stronger contrary to all the naysayers about our real estate market here. Lots of people are still relocating here and looking for housing including high rises. Construction jobs of course continue to be a big part of this, especially for high rises and casino hotel projects.

[justdefended]

Originally Posted by BruceH

It's more like urban versus suburban living. Our clients who bought CC already come from cities like Shanghai, Tokyo, London, Toronto, NYC etc where they are use to urban and high rise living. I live on the Strip in a high rise and love it. Can't stand the traffic going to suburbia. I can get to restaurants, airport, services etc all around the Strip in 15-20 minutes. Trip to Summerlin now takes about 30 to 45 minutes or worse depending on traffic. Demand for CC is high as are luxury condos like Sky Las Vegas, Turnberry Place and Turnberry Towers etc for residential living in the core Strip area. It will only get better with the billions of dollars being invested in all the new casino hotels in the main and North Strip areas.

I agree. CityCenter and other Strip projects really do have a micro real estate market that has been able to attract clientele from worldwide markets. The Mandarin selling out 90 percent in weeks is indication of that alone. It's hard to believe that Vegas really is a worldwide destination that has five star entertainment, dining, hotels, and casinos. And the appeal of a low-maintenance residence in the middle of the city is a real attraction to buyers, even though it may seem like the biggest hassle to locals.

[RazzMan]

Does anyone know how well Trump Tower II is selling????Since the Apprentice show has the hyped slowed down...I'm wondering if this reservation process is just to test the waters on the market and if not enough interest, they will pull the plug on the 2nd Tower prior to hard contracts. I assume if T II gets cancelled, nothing will be able to sell after advertising on National TV for 1 hour.

[justdefended]

MGM President Jim Murren told the LV Business Press this week that Circus Circus will not be torn down in the near future and will be reinvested in.

"Circus Circus will be around longer than I will and I hope to live a long, healthy life," he said. "It's not for sale. It won't be torn down. It will be reinvested in."

Besides, Murren has a personal stake in Circus' survival. "I'm a father of young kids and if I did anything to hurt Circus Circus, I'd be kicked out of the house."

Looks like that clown really ain't goin' anywhere anytime soon.

http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/artic...q_13965707.txt

[mdiederi]

CB Richard Ellis executive John Knott is vice president of CBRE'S Global Gaming Group and worked on Sahara-owner Gordon Gaming Corp.'s behalf -- first on the casino sale to SBE, then when MGM purchased the company's 26-acre parcel across the Strip. He says the move northward was always in the cards.

"It's pretty clear that people who want to expand on the Strip have to go north," he opined.

Knott compares it to Manhattan, where high-density development in the south and south-central sections gives way to lower density in the "20" and "30" blocks. "Those areas are prime opportunities. The north end of the Strip was where it was all happening in the 1970s and '80s," Knott said.

As far as developments go, he predicts the Stratosphere will have some tall company. "People are going as high as possible," Knott said, illustrating the point by describing how companies can squeeze more return out of denser developments.

[BruceH]

Originally Posted by justdefended

MGM President Jim Murren told the LV Business Press this week that Circus Circus will not be torn down in the near future and will be reinvested in.

"Circus Circus will be around longer than I will and I hope to live a long, healthy life," he said. "It's not for sale. It won't be torn down. It will be reinvested in."

Besides, Murren has a personal stake in Circus' survival. "I'm a father of young kids and if I did anything to hurt Circus Circus, I'd be kicked out of the house."

Looks like that clown really ain't goin' anywhere anytime soon.

http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/artic...q_13965707.txt

Isn't it up to the MGM Mirage shareholders to decide? A publically traded company's shareholders expect major return on investment and CC is not pulling its potential weight. If it can't be made over then expect shareholder pressure to match the high end properties like Echelon, Palazzo, Fontainebleau etc. Even the Sahara makeover is now going to take 2 to 2.5 years, not just a paint job. North Strip is on fire and MGM will have to play in the same ball game or get pressure from its shareholders big time.

[Silas]

MGM will land bank the entire parcel and ensure North Strip to be relative dead zone. It is very clear. Look at VegasTAT dude's 'Who Owns What' map to see clearly that MGM has every incentive to keep North Strip a dead zone. Nine of their ten resorts are South/Mid Strip. Why, why, why would they want to enhance North Strip experience for everyone else at their own expense? They would not.

And the part about shareholders having a say about anything that any company does. Yeah right.

[NYC2ATX]

I don't really like the idea of major developments in that part of Las Vegas. The Arts District is like Vegas' SoHo. It should be left alone, even if Downtown and the Strip are going vertical north and south of them. No one is Vegas knows streets, and classic urban spaces. Mega resorts with casinos, and pedestrian bridges are the norm here, and that's ok. But let the arts blossom in Vegas, not everything needs to be bulldozed if it doesn't turn a profit immediately.

[LMich]

As someone from back East, I always liked the feel of the Arts District. It's really not much, but it's gritty, pedestrian-oriented (at least more so than most parts of the valley), and reminded me a little of home. I agree, I'd like to see it largely left alone. An extra Metro presence couldn't hurt it, though.

[BruceH]

Originally Posted by Silas

MGM will land bank the entire parcel and ensure North Strip to be relative dead zone. It is very clear. Look at VegasTAT dude's 'Who Owns What' map to see clearly that MGM has every incentive to keep North Strip a dead zone. Nine of their ten resorts are South/Mid Strip. Why, why, why would they want to enhance North Strip experience for everyone else at their own expense? They would not.

And the part about shareholders having a say about anything that any company does. Yeah right.

Just like I got the negative feedback on this forum when I predicted MGM would buy the land all the way down to the Sahara lot and they did. Don't know where you get your information but our contacts tell us a very different story. North Strip is going to be developed and is very hot now with many projects underway in the billions. So interesting you have such a negative view of North Strip and believe MGM won't act on their North Strip land holdings. I'll bet otherwise.

[mdiederi]

Originally Posted by Silas

MGM will land bank the entire parcel and ensure North Strip to be relative dead zone.

MGM management is obviously implementing a growth strategy. "Land banking" aimed at depressing a market is not a growth strategy. All of MGM's current properties south of Spring Mountain are maxed out with 85-100% occupancy rates and there is no land left for another magaresort down there, just little slivers of land where they can plug in a skinny boutique hotel or condo hotel here or there. Besides, it's too late to land bank the north end of the Strip, there are already 9 condo towers north of Spring Mountain and the Fontainebleau and Encore resorts are already under construction and Echelon starts in a couple months, and the Sahara has an extremely capable new owner -- all of which is being developed even with the empty land on the corner before MGM bought it. Now, financial power house Goldman Sachs just entered the fray and the MGM purchase might have been the final impetus that motivated them to go ahead with the Strat purchase, so the land banking theory might have already backfired because it's motivating others to buy-in and build. MGM would be shooting themselves in the foot not to build new revenue streams on the north end where the new synergy is brewing, they would get clobbered on Wall Street if they didn't have a future growth path after CityCenter opens. Maybe land banking works as a strategy in other cities, but I don't see evidence of it in Las Vegas. Up until now the Strip has always had big empty lots, it used to be the middle of no where. Mirage was a big empty lot for decades but Caesars had no problem making a killing next door. CityCenter has always been a big empty spot on the Strip but Bellagio had no problem raking in the cash next door. I don't know where the land banking theory comes from. Although, I kind of understand what you're implying, because the south end of the strip will always have an advantage over the north end because most tourists enter the resort corridor from the south, either from the airport or driving from L.A., and that's the first thing they see.

[mdiederi]

Originally Posted by StatenIslander237

The Arts District is like Vegas' SoHo.

It probably has more in common with NYC's Chelsea art district than SOHO since it's mostly a gritty industrial and warehouse area, especially over there by the Neon Nights proposal, but it has comparatively none of the influx of money and talent that the NY districts have. The Las Vegas Arts District was well intentioned, but it has mostly been a flop in terms of creating an art market. The only time gallery goers go to the Arts District is for the First Friday street party every month and that's mostly just a freak show with a bunch of college kids on the make, and you know they don't have any money to buy art. The rest of the time it's dead except for the zombie homeless people who live in the alleys. Aside from the poor quality art, part of the problem with the Arts District is that the buildings down there don't really lend themselves very well to a live-work type of set up for artists and the architecture has absolutely zero style or charm or cohesiveness or functionality. The street layout is tightly woven, by Vegas standards, so it would be a good walkable area if it had the right type of buildings, but it doesn't. There aren't any buildings at all with residential lofts or apartments upstairs and shop space down stairs. Hopefully all the highrise condo proposals will generate a better market for galleries and specialty shops and restaurants in the area and more live/work type of buildings will be built. Holesome Lofts is a good attempt at what the Arts District should do with some of the existing buildings, but most of the businesses in there are hurting pretty bad from what I've heard because the rents are higher than places like the Arts Factory and there isn't a strong clientele in the area. There are quite a few empty lots and condemned buildings down there right now. Not sure how Neon Nights is configured, but if they put the arena and casino towards the railroad tracks on the west side and put the condo towers on the east side, it might actually help development of an urban village setting in the arts district. But, If they put the casino and arena on the east side of the site it would definitely hurt the development of an urban village in the Arts District. I did notice the other day a couple more proposals in the city planning agendas for live/work type of buildings around 4th street and Charleston.

[LMich]

mdiederi,

You make a good point, but that is what worries me about the success of the Arts District (i.e. that it's not built for such a conversion), and it's really the problem of Vegas if you're hoping to create pedestrian-friendly, hemmed-in, authentic neighborhoods.

I mean, yeah, you could bulldoze most of this and put in a Disney-like Arts District, but that would defeat the purpose of such a disitrict in the first place. Worst yet is that anything that's bulldozed is probably going to shoot up in value, lending itself to a district where only rich hipsters could live, further defeating the purpose.

We can already see the gentrification of creeping up on this hood with developments like SoHo and Newport. It seems like this area is simply destined to become a high-rise "Midway" district that will connect the Strip and Downtown, anyway.

That said, I think a really great place to create something authentically and historically Vegas would be along East Fremont just east of downtown. This may get some laughs from you guys, but I think this could be a very interesting and liveable hood in the future.

BTW,

I remember back in the run-up to the construction of Stratosphere "Stupak" Tower that the developer aquired a butt-load of land, I heard, to force people out of the surrounding areas (a really shady hood...still is) to make it more desirable. Does anyone know approximately how much land they own around the tower, and in which direction, or is this just a rumor.