Dallas l DART Light Rail Expansion Updates

[electricron]

I agree, but neither DART nor FWTA will have the financial resources to build it if neither Arlington and Grand Prairie join them.

Here's the NCTCOG 2030 very preliminary ridership predictions

Commuter Rail on UP tracks = 15,000
Rapid Bus on I-30 HOV lanes = 21,200
Light Rail on SH-180 (ex-US-80) = 32,800

I just wanted to point out that TXDOT is and will be building HOV lanes on I-30. And I suggest that's all there will be until the mid-cities in question joins either transit agency. The rapid bus figures don't look too bad, the light rail figures are really, really great....

NCTCOG states it's 37 miles between Union Station in Dallas and the T&P Station in Fort Worth. If the light rail line was built the entire way in the median of SH-180 like the Central Corridor between Minneapolis and St. Paul (like the Blue Line on Lancaster in Dallas), I estimate it'll cost nearly $3 Billion. The Central Corridor in the other twin cities is just 11 miles long, and is estimated to cost at least $920 Million. Multiplying those numbers by three should be a good educated guess for a light rail line down SH-180.

[jtk1519]

So let's just assume in the future Grand Prairie and Arlington join DART or the FWTA, how much would it cost to add another track or two to that existing UP corridor? I agree that light rail for that entire length would be cost prohibitive and I would think that if this line is to serve the stadium/ballpark area, the increased capacity of heavy or commuter rail would be the way to go. I don't remember the TRE's construction cost, but I know Austin's MetroRail line, even with it's delays and cost overruns, will set them back under $4 million a mile. If DART and the FWTA were to co-own this new line the way they do the TRE, that would help spread the cost around.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jtk1519

So let's just assume in the future Grand Prairie and Arlington join DART or the FWTA, how much would it cost to add another track or two to that existing UP corridor? I agree that light rail for that entire length would be cost prohibitive and I would think that if this line is to serve the stadium/ballpark area, the increased capacity of heavy or commuter rail would be the way to go. I don't remember the TRE's construction cost, but I know Austin's MetroRail line, even with it's delays and cost overruns, will set them back under $4 million a mile. If DART and the FWTA were to co-own this new line the way they do the TRE, that would help spread the cost around.

It's difficult to predict the costs because there are a few variables. Using DCTA's A-Train as an example would be a good place to start. Both rail lines requiring one new track built the entire way in the corridor. DCTA's 21 mile route will cost around $315 Million if it comes in as budgeted. That's around $15 Million per mile, and includes all upfront capital costs. DCTA will be paying DART trackage rights over the corridor on a yearly basis, those costs will be considered operational rather than capital.
Taking that same $15 Million per mile capital costs, a 37 mile commuter rail line will cost $555 Million. A major unknown variable for an Arlington-Grand Prairie commuter rail line is what the UP wants up front, and what UP wants on a yearly basis for trackage rights. DCTA was lucky that DART owned most of the corridor and had rights to that portion owned by the city of Denton.
As I wrote earlier, the UP doesn't like commuter trains operating on their corridors. Utah had to buy in advance for 20 to 35 feet of the 100 feet wide UP rail corridor to be used by their Frontrunner trains. That was an upfront capital cost of $185 Million vs yearly trackage right fees. The Frontrunner rail line is Salt Lake City's short spur to UP's transcontinental mainline. It wasn't extremely busy with cross country freight trains, but busy enough with local traffic that the UP didn't want to share its freight tracks with commuter trains. Although the UP was willing to sell 20-35 feet width of their corridor. Additionally, the UP wanted an additional $103 Million in advance for just trackage rights on their transcontinental mainline north of Ogden to Brigham City, a total of $288 Million of capital over and above the costs of building the tracks ad buying the trains.
The UP could want just as much in advance, even possibly more, for trackage rights on the old T&P mainline between Dallas and Fort Worth. So, the capital costs for this commuter rail line could rise from $555 Million to $843 Million; that's why it is difficult to predict how much the capital costs would be, no one really knows what the UP wants for access rights on this very busy freight line. And I might add, the UP will not speculate on this either.
Here's a YouTube timelapse video of the entire Frontrunner (North) tracks. You can see what UTA ended up doing to start commuter rail services in Utah next to UP tracks, not on UP tracks.

• Video Link

It is far easier to predict the costs for a 37 mile light rail line down SH-180, where the State already owns the right-of-way.

[jtk1519]

DART considers letting more cities aboard at lower cost
02:25 AM CST on Monday, January 25, 2010
By MICHAEL A. LINDENBERGER / The Dallas Morning News
mlindenberger@dallasnews.com

Dallas Area Rapid Transit is considering ways to bring new cities aboard without requiring them to pay a full cent of sales tax, which has been a core membership requirement since the agency's founding more than a quarter-century ago.

That full-penny requirement, which in recent years has meant more than $200 million a year in sales tax contributions from Dallas alone, has been the biggest obstacle to the agency's growth. One fast-growing suburb after another has chosen to stay out of DART rather than surrender all of its discretionary sales tax revenue to pay for bus and rail service.

DART president Gary Thomas said preliminary discussions have begun among his board members and leaders in cities that border the agency's 13 member cities.

"When we started DART in 1983, it didn't make sense for some of these outlying cities to be part of a regional system," Thomas said. "The revenues in those cities were not sufficient, and neither was the likely ridership. But here as we find ourselves with a lot of first-ring suburbs as part of the agency ... and we have gone way beyond that."

...

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...h.4044507.html

[dfwcr8tive]

DART Green Line construction photos from November. These are new images from DART's site (there are many more there not pictured below): http://www.dart.org/newsroom/imagelibrary.asp

Buckner



Lake June



Lawnview



Hatcher



Market Center



Southwestern Medical Center/Parkland



Inwood



Love Field



Bachman



Walnut Hill/Denton



Farmers Branch



Downtown Carrollton



Trinity Mills



North Carrollton/Frankford

[Nexis4Jersey]

wow , that Light Rail line looks sick , i like the Catenary poles , they made them works of art instead of boring poles.

[jtk1519]

That Bachman station is going to be crazy busy.

[jtk1519]

That UP line running through Arlington will get commuter rail service, if only for a day...

2011 Super Bowl will bring big transit changes to Dallas area
11:21 AM CST on Sunday, February 7, 2010
By JEFF MOSIER / The Dallas Morning News
jmosier@dallasnews.com

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. – Super Bowl events next year will require a dramatic but temporary overhaul of parts of the North Texas transportation system, including a temporary rail station in Arlington and changes to highway lanes.

Speaking in great detail, the person leading the local transportation effort laid out many changes while visiting the North Texas Super Bowl Host Committee booth here Saturday.

Michael Morris, a host committee member and transportation director for the North Central Texas Council of Governments, talked about plans for rails, highways and buses.
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A large part of the transportation effort also will involve getting people out of their rental cars and into trains. Morris said transportation agencies plan to offer a one-week rail pass during the Super Bowl to cater to those from out of town.

Rail stops already exist near major Super Bowl venues, including the NFL Experience at the Dallas Convention Center and Taste of the NFL at the Fort Worth Convention Center.

Commuter rail service also will arrive temporarily in Arlington on Feb. 6, 2011. Transportation officials are negotiating with the Union Pacific Railroad to use their rail line, which passes about a mile from Cowboys Stadium.

If everything runs smoothly, transit agencies will send 10,000 people to the Super Bowl on commuter rail trains. A temporary station is planned for a site just north of Arlington City Hall, near Center Street.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...o.3c717f5.html

[Jasonhouse]

Why don't hardly any of Dallas' stations have better weatherproofing, so that people don't get wet if it rains and is breezy, or wind up halfway in the sun during the commuter rushes, when the sun is generally lower on the horizon? All of the shelter designs are stylish and modern, but they don't seem very useful.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

Wow seems like a lot of rail transit is being centered around Downtown, when more of the employment is located in North Dallas and northern suburbs. Is it more appropriate than bus? Hopefully DT Dallas can turn their vacancy around.

When you look at who rides the train versus the bus, it is apparent that the rail attracts a greater diversity of riders with better service levels than bus. Dallas has had bus-based transit for half a century with predictable land-use implications. It is time to try something else.

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

I understand the employment areas outside of the CBD are serviced/being serviced by transit, but it seems like DT Dallas is getting transit overkill. Are buses really inadequate for this area? Employment is what drives good transit, and downtown has had a vacancy rate that can't quite seem to keep steady. It's fantastic there's hotels and new things getting built in the area, but it's jobs that get ridership. Jobs have been going outside of CBDs (not just Dallas) but they are wanting to build a subway like rail through DT? It just seem unnecessary.

What does a vacancy rate have to do with anything? As it stands right now, downtown Dallas has both the highest amount of occupied office space and worker density, both of which are important when talking transit service. The outlying areas are too low on density to have any meaningful transit service.

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

How is subway justified? How are buses not adequate given what is downtown? I agree more transit is necessary, but not rail in every case.

Currently, there are 32 local routes and 10 express buses that serve downtown. Exactly what would you propose to increase bus service?

Originally Posted by jtk1519

And FWIW, for my own selfish reasons, I kinda hope the city gets their wish because I would love a LRT stop near the downtown farmer's market and I think it would be a tremendous boost to the market.

Why, that option is the most expensive, has the least amount of ridership, second least amount of development potential and will take the most time to travel through downtown. The Young option and the City Hall option would both have Farmers market Stations.

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

What I don't understand, is why this is a problem in DT Dallas in the first place. Not making this HOU vs Dallas but the HOU Red line is more congested (higher ridership/mile), yet this problem isn't occurring in our largest employment area (DT).

Are you really comparing aroute that carries one line, versus one that will carry 4? Ridership is irrelevant in this case, because it is service levels and headway that is being discussed (but, as has been disected many times before, the current transit mall in DTD carries more riders, 50,000+ in one mile than the entire Houston Red Line). More trains mean slower travel through the mall.

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

It still begs the question of why it was decided to have so lines operating in Downtown Dallas in a transit mall in the first place. Perhaps it could have only been done this way, but hindsight being what it is....

Because all mid-major downtowns and up are built to be well-served by transit, they are dense, with a connectable street grid with lots of destinations in a small space. Compare the Las Colinas Urban Center

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...18,0.0842&z=14

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...09,0.0421&z=15

with downtown Dallas

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...24,0.0421&z=15

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...3,0.02105&z=16

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...24,0.0421&z=15

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...25,0.0421&z=15

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...26,0.0421&z=15

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...49,0.0842&z=14

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...f2ab81553&z=15

and you will see that.

[jtk1519]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

Why don't hardly any of Dallas' stations have better weatherproofing, so that people don't get wet if it rains and is breezy, or wind up halfway in the sun during the commuter rushes, when the sun is generally lower on the horizon? All of the shelter designs are stylish and modern, but they don't seem very useful.

Because weather is not enough of an issue to justify the increased costs.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by jtk1519

Because weather is not enough of an issue to justify the increased costs.

Almost half the platform lengths at every DART station has a cover area for future passengers to wait in the shade or sun. Pick any station on Google Earth and use the measuring tool if you need proof.

Most older DART stations have platforms that are 360 feet to 410 feet long (outside the CBD).
Using Park Lane Station, the platforms are 410 feet, the cover area totals 180 feet. Therefore, 44% of this platform has cover...
Using Lovers Lane Station, the platforms are 360 feet, the cover area totals 130 feet. Therefore, 36% of the platforms have cover.

You will not find passengers fighting for shade or sun at DART's light rail stations, there's plenty of cover to go around.

[Owlhorn]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

Why don't hardly any of Dallas' stations have better weatherproofing, so that people don't get wet if it rains and is breezy, or wind up halfway in the sun during the commuter rushes, when the sun is generally lower on the horizon? All of the shelter designs are stylish and modern, but they don't seem very useful.

I've only felt bothered by the weather once after almost a decade of daily use. That was a driving storm where there was flashflooding and the power went out on the whole system. Otherwise, have been through rain, sleet, snow, heat, sunshine, etc. The coverings are simply much bigger than they look, even on the elevated platforms and are usually backed by glass.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster

When you look at who rides the train versus the bus, it is apparent that the rail attracts a greater diversity of riders with better service levels than bus. Dallas has had bus-based transit for half a century with predictable land-use implications. It is time to try something else.



What does a vacancy rate have to do with anything? As it stands right now, downtown Dallas has both the highest amount of occupied office space and worker density, both of which are important when talking transit service. The outlying areas are too low on density to have any meaningful transit service.



Currently, there are 32 local routes and 10 express buses that serve downtown. Exactly what would you propose to increase bus service?



Why, that option is the most expensive, has the least amount of ridership, second least amount of development potential and will take the most time to travel through downtown. The Young option and the City Hall option would both have Farmers market Stations.



Are you really comparing aroute that carries one line, versus one that will carry 4? Ridership is irrelevant in this case, because it is service levels and headway that is being discussed (but, as has been disected many times before, the current transit mall in DTD carries more riders, 50,000+ in one mile than the entire Houston Red Line). More trains mean slower travel through the mall.



Because all mid-major downtowns and up are built to be well-served by transit, they are dense, with a connectable street grid with lots of destinations in a small space. Compare the Las Colinas Urban Center

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...18,0.0842&z=14

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...09,0.0421&z=15

with downtown Dallas

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...24,0.0421&z=15

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...3,0.02105&z=16

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...24,0.0421&z=15

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...25,0.0421&z=15

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...26,0.0421&z=15

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...49,0.0842&z=14

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF...f2ab81553&z=15

and you will see that.

Yes someone already addressed those points, so thanks for your timely response.

According to this Dallas transportation blog, an average of 8,503 riders were brought into the Downtown mall during the morning rush in 2009. It seems DT isn't that big of destination for a majority of riders throughout the DART system, please correct me if I am wrong. And yes, I realize the Green line isn't fully open, but it seems this blogger thinks DT still wouldn't be a major destination for green line riders.

http://transportationblog.dallasnews...ne-update.html

[FoUTASportscaster]

That's a skewed stat. If you look at this one, http://transportationblog.dallasnews...line-figu.html, based solely on use, you'd see that 25,000 people use the 5 main stations in downtown. Using only morning commuters is flawed. For example, the West End Station has 10,000 total boardings daily, more than the total morning commuters.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster

That's a skewed stat. If you look at this one, http://transportationblog.dallasnews...line-figu.html, based solely on use, you'd see that 25,000 people use the 5 main stations in downtown. Using only morning commuters is flawed. For example, the West End Station has 10,000 total boardings daily, more than the total morning commuters.

The West End Station has lots of traffic at lunch, and late night. There's not that many office building skyscrapers near it. The earlier stat more reflects rush hour traffic. The reason light rail runs all day and most of the night with low headways is to attract non rush hour patrons, otherwise DART could have saved tons of money building a commuter rail line instead.

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by FoUTASportscaster

That's a skewed stat. If you look at this one, http://transportationblog.dallasnews...line-figu.html, based solely on use, you'd see that 25,000 people use the 5 main stations in downtown. Using only morning commuters is flawed. For example, the West End Station has 10,000 total boardings daily, more than the total morning commuters.

I don't believe it is skewed but gives a different look, although it does seem skewed against the Green Line (which isn't complete).

Originally Posted by electricron

The West End Station has lots of traffic at lunch, and late night. There's not that many office building skyscrapers near it. The earlier stat more reflects rush hour traffic. The reason light rail runs all day and most of the night with low headways is to attract non rush hour patrons, otherwise DART could have saved tons of money building a commuter rail line instead.

Interesting stats presented, I like the more commuter orientated stats compared to the average daily passengers boarding per station as it gives a different look. It looks like the West End station serves a great deal of nonrush hour traffic, perhaps lunch and evening riders as Electricon mentioned. Is the West End station in the area referred to as Uptown?

[jtk1519]

Dallas awarded $43M in federal grants for roads, streetcars
12:46 PM CST on Wednesday, February 17, 2010
By MICHAEL LINDENBERGER and ROY APPLETON / The Dallas Morning News
mlindenberger@dallasnews.com; rappleton@dallasnews.com

North Texas hit a transportation jackpot this morning, winning $43 million in federal grants for a streetcar in downtown Dallas and for construction of the State Highway 161 toll road in western Dallas County.

The $23 million streetcar grant will help build a loop that will cross the Trinity River into Oak Cliff.
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As proposed, the downtown Dallas streetcar line would originate at Harwood and Main streets. It would run along Main to Houston Street, where it would connect with the Dallas Area Rapid Transit Authority and Trinity Railway Express lines at Union Station.

The line would also stop at the Dallas Convention Center (and the adjacent city-owned hotel now under construction); at the Trinity River park planned as one of the largest urban parks in the country; at Methodist Dallas Medical Center in Oak Cliff; the Oak Cliff Gateway area; and in several residential areas.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...127f32376.html


http://www.salcedogroupinc.com/Clien...iger_map01.pdf

[FoUTASportscaster]

Originally Posted by TexasPlaya

I don't believe it is skewed but gives a different look, although it does seem skewed against the Green Line (which isn't complete).

It is skewed because it looks at one point in time for really one demographic group. People who work 2nd or third shift aren't included, people who use it for recreation or other non-work purposes aren't included, people who are using the system outside of downtown aren't included, etc... It in no way reflects anything meaningful about the system.

Interesting stats presented, I like the more commuter orientated stats compared to the average daily passengers boarding per station as it gives a different look. It looks like the West End station serves a great deal of nonrush hour traffic, perhaps lunch and evening riders as Electricon mentioned. Is the West End station in the area referred to as Uptown?

No, it is the major transfer point in the central service area, the one with the highest riders. It is squarely in downtown.

Unlike what Electricron said, there are several office buildings within walking distance of the station. All of the West End (1+ million square fee t of office space, dozens of retail and restaurants and hundreds of residential units), El Centro and the largest building in the region (BoA Plaza) are utilized by this station.

[jtk1519]

Now that construction of the DART Orange Line to Irving/DFW is well under way, DART and KSWRP (the design-build contractor responsible for the design and construction of the first two segments of the Orange Line) would like to take an opportunity to present a project update focused more on the station design for the Orange Line stations, and officially unveil the station renderings. DART and KSWRP staff will present an overview of the Orange Line Art & Design Program and showcase the unique artistic elements of the Orange Line stations.

The Irving 1 segment of the Orange Line is scheduled to be open for revenue service next year in December 2011, and will include the University of Dallas Station, Las Colinas Urban Center Station, and the Irving Convention Center Station. The Irving 2 segment of the Orange Line is scheduled to open up in December 2012, and will include the North Lake College Station and Belt Line Station. The Irving 3 DFW Extension segment of the Orange Line, scheduled to open for revenue service in December 2013, is proceeding with an Environmental Assessment and not yet under construction. All stations will be on display at both public meetings, but the Irving 1 stations will be showcased at the University of Dallas public meeting while the Irving 2 stations will be showcased at the North Lake College Station public meeting.

http://www.dart.org/meetings/publicm...rss.asp?ID=421