Boise Development Thread - Part II

[Visualize]

Originally Posted by Urban Buff

I was curious what the group thought about the possibility of infilling row homes around the fringes of downtown. By row homes I'm referring to projects like the row homes off of Warm Springs, The Waterfront District and Shoup Ave in SW Boise. I initially thought that was being proposed for the parcel just north of the Cabana Inn although that seems like a little smaller project. It seems like a traditional looking brick veneer covering a 3-4 story with basement project would give them that older brownstone type look seen in other cities. Initially I thought the Central Addition neighborhood would be a good spot but it sounds like it may be the future home of larger projects. What do you guys think, would a row of 4-5 dwellings in each building pencil out financially? Technically they are assessed and sold as single family dwellings even though they comprise one contiguous building.

I personally would rather see row houses in Garden City, and just up on the Bench. While there are a decent number of parking lots that could use some good infill downtown, once those are gone there isn't much room to grow, so I'd rather see a little more density. Row houses could be used as a good transition between the single family surrounding downtown though....as we know the City likes to zone everything down to nothing from it's 1970's peak.

[OhGoodGlavin]

So the North Pointe buildings 1 and 4 are actually refreshing relative to buildings 2 and 3. A little bit more height, and a slightly less suburban feel. It's not quite enough to make up the design of the apartment complexes immediately behind the buildings... but at least its something.

http://pdsonline.cityofboise.org/pds...00210&type=doc

[BNF]

Originally Posted by Urban Buff

I was curious what the group thought about the possibility of infilling row homes around the fringes of downtown. By row homes I'm referring to projects like the row homes off of Warm Springs, The Waterfront District and Shoup Ave in SW Boise. I initially thought that was being proposed for the parcel just north of the Cabana Inn although that seems like a little smaller project. It seems like a traditional looking brick veneer covering a 3-4 story with basement project would give them that older brownstone type look seen in other cities. Initially I thought the Central Addition neighborhood would be a good spot but it sounds like it may be the future home of larger projects. What do you guys think, would a row of 4-5 dwellings in each building pencil out financially? Technically they are assessed and sold as single family dwellings even though they comprise one contiguous building.

If they were like the row homes in the Upper West Side of Manhattan(which is what I believe you're referring to) then I think they would be great for infill. I love the look and they would add just as much if not more density than any of the other projects that are being built. It would also create walkable neighborhoods with a really strong neighborhood feel. I think there is a market for these. Not everyone wants a condo, but not everyone wants a detached single family in the suburbs either. There needs to be something in between.

[Daniel W.]

Originally Posted by IdaBoi

Loving your pictures Sawtooth! That last skyline shot is amazing. You need to be thanked for adding eye candy to the Boise threads.

I agree! Thank you Sawtooth and everyone else that adds the photos to the thread.

[Boisebro]

Originally Posted by BNF

If they were like the row homes in the Upper West Side of Manhattan(which is what I believe you're referring to) then I think they would be great for infill. I love the look and they would add just as much if not more density than any of the other projects that are being built. It would also create walkable neighborhoods with a really strong neighborhood feel. I think there is a market for these. Not everyone wants a condo, but not everyone wants a detached single family in the suburbs either. There needs to be something in between.

i agree. i think row homes should be on the outskirts of downtown, not in the downtown area itself.

even then, i'd prefer they be in the 4-5 floor range, similar to the upper west side. for example:



one thing i like about these is that each home has its own style and color. this is something boise developers often lack to consider in their designs.

in fact, i wish the new town home proposal on 16th was more like these. the 2-story proposal is too suburban for that location.

some other examples:






Photo credits: urbancitades.com, mykindoftown.com, Mitchell Hall

[OhGoodGlavin]

Interesting/funny op ed in the Statesman today: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/0...-new.html?rh=1

Not meaning to start a political argument - he may be right. But my criticism and frustration with the op ed is that it's completely devoid of any **actual** data about why people are moving to Idaho and the Treasure Valley, in particular. Just conjecture. Just solely in my opinion, when newspapers devote space to op eds like this, they are doing it solely out of a perception of political correctness.

I especially love the line "yes, you can call all of this suppositional..." I'm not calling it suppositional, it is suppositional

[Cottonwood]

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/0...tesy.html?rh=1

Boise’s second outdoor gym, courtesy of Bodybuilding.com opens in Camel’s Back Park on June 5

[Boizean]

Love it, hate it or maybe even indifferent but there was a beautiful aerial shot of downtown Boise in tonight's episode of "Wayward Pines", Idaho.



FOX
http://rapidmoviez.com/release/waywa...tv-x264-rmteam

[Urban Buff]

Originally Posted by Boisebro

i agree. i think row homes should be on the outskirts of downtown, not in the downtown area itself.

even then, i'd prefer they be in the 4-5 floor range, similar to the upper west side. for example:



one thing i like about these is that each home has its own style and color. this is something boise developers often lack to consider in their designs.

in fact, i wish the new town home proposal on 16th was more like these. the 2-story proposal is too suburban for that location.

some other examples:






Photo credits: urbancitades.com, mykindoftown.com, Mitchell Hall

Yes, I was referring to something similar albeit likely a smaller scale to the Upper East Side. Great pictures Boise Bro. That is one of the things I like about urban settings, the diversity of the architecture which provides a sense of place rather than cookie-cutter USA. I completely agree that row homes shouldn't be in the heart of downtown but on the fringe of downtown. Perhaps the new west side might have some appropriate areas.

[boisecynic]

The conversation about row homes is interesting. I've posted quite a few times about the condos at 13th and Fort, the Hyde Park Place. I really like those and they seem ideal for the CBD fringe.

The problem, yet again is zoning. There really aren't that many parcels available for row home developments. The CBD fringe is small and quickly changes to R1 and R2 zoning for the north end, east end and west downtown. There's a smattering of R3.

I couldn't find mention of "row home" at the zoning ordinance. But, it appears you'd need to have at least R3 zoning to be allowed row homes. That is, you'd need the 20 unit per acre density allowance, which, iirc, does not come into play until R3 zoning.

Furthermore: Macroeconomics

The people who have the money to afford new construction, mainly older people, don't want to walk up stairs. Some might settle for a 2nd floor. Few will settle for a 3 story set up.

The people who wouldn't mind 3 flights of stairs, young people, typically don't have the money for new construction.

[Boisebro]

i think the west side should probably be re-zoned to allow for higher-density residential. the interesting thing about row houses is that while the style is something many of us like, many of these examples are 100-150 years old, but the exterior style (to me) is timeless.

i think row houses tend to be more targeted to empty nesters... folks from 45 - 65 who have good income and a desire to be close to downtown amenities.

anyway, it's an intriguing idea, but i think many of us agree it'd be best for the perimeter of downtown.

on another topic, i still can't get over boise's penchant for building ugly-ass hotels. i found these renderings on tastudios.com, and i really wish we'd get a hotel with more detail and style like these instead of the boring, small-windowed, brown, uncreative stuff we keep getting.

the first one is about the same size as the proposed hotel for capitol, and has nice details and balconies:



the second one is much larger, and some might call it a bit "gaudy" (though i disagree), but boise has absolutely nothing like this, so it'd be nice to get something different for a change:




or, we could go REALLY modern and get a nice hotel like this (image from inhabitant.com):




thoughts?

[Architecture Buff]

May29,2015

City Center






JUMP and Simplot HQ




Hoff Building

[Architecture Buff]

Two of my favorite developments:
(Row houses in Boise)
Though condos, the Warm Springs condos do look like row houses more than Hyde Park Place.





2
Here is a new proposed mixed use building in Ketchum that would fit into Boise nicely. Ground floor retail, and 2 floors of condos.


Mountain Express rendering

[Hawk]

I really like the idea of row houses in, or near downtown. I have always enjoyed the Hyde Park Place, and I wish they would have built the same apartments on the block next to it where the community garden is like what was originally planned before people complained about the extra traffic that it'd bring. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pleased to see Boise High and the church use the garden, but the land could have had another attractive building instead of a bare lot, and small shed for half of the year.

[Evo5Boise]

Originally Posted by Boizean

Love it, hate it or maybe even indifferent but there was a beautiful aerial shot of downtown Boise in tonight's episode of "Wayward Pines", Idaho.



FOX
http://rapidmoviez.com/release/waywa...tv-x264-rmteam

A little slice of Hollywood for Boise. Nice!! Is this our 15 minutes of fame?

[Urban Buff]

Originally Posted by boisecynic

The conversation about row homes is interesting. I've posted quite a few times about the condos at 13th and Fort, the Hyde Park Place. I really like those and they seem ideal for the CBD fringe.

The problem, yet again is zoning. There really aren't that many parcels available for row home developments. The CBD fringe is small and quickly changes to R1 and R2 zoning for the north end, east end and west downtown. There's a smattering of R3.

I couldn't find mention of "row home" at the zoning ordinance. But, it appears you'd need to have at least R3 zoning to be allowed row homes. That is, you'd need the 20 unit per acre density allowance, which, iirc, does not come into play until R3 zoning.

Furthermore: Macroeconomics

The people who have the money to afford new construction, mainly older people, don't want to walk up stairs. Some might settle for a 2nd floor. Few will settle for a 3 story set up.

The people who wouldn't mind 3 flights of stairs, young people, typically don't have the money for new construction.

That was interesting info on the zoning issues Boise Cynic. It seems like the Council should consider making some zoning changes to encourage such development on the periphery of Downtown, Central Addition or West End. You also make a good point about the older population that can afford homes in the Waterfront District for example not wanting to hike 2 or 3 flights of stairs.
However, if you look at the row homes on W. Shoup Ave in SW Boise you will see that I don't think those homes are out of reach for younger working class Boiseans. I would imagine to achieve the traditional look described would add some costs with brick veneers and finish work. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to obtain the assessment amount at the County's website on the Shoup Ave homes to verify value.

[Visualize]

This is interesting and figured some of you guys would want to check it out. Looking at the satellite image of Boise in 1971 is pretty crazy.

http://www.historicaerials.com/

[Architecture Buff]

River Edge looking good right on green belt, May 31,2015

[Sawtooth]

After 4pm, Sunday. It's Idaho Wine month, drink wine and rejoice

[Evo5Boise]

Originally Posted by Visualize

This is interesting and figured some of you guys would want to check it out. Looking at the satellite image of Boise in 1971 is pretty crazy.

http://www.historicaerials.com/

That was fantastic. Thanks for sharing.