What is Vancouver? A response...

[deasine]

Nature and natural setting is what puts Vancouver on top on all lists. If our region decided to focus primarily on entertainment, nightlife, and shopping, Vancouver would be competing with the other major cities that excel in this category. Even if we had more bars, malls, city lights, etc, we will never be able to excel that of New York, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. Population, thus demand, is a limiting factor. So if I wanted to visit a big city with all of the world class shopping, nightlife, etc. why would I visit Vancouver over other major cities in the world?

If the argument is, we should have more shopping, nightlife, and a bit more city lights, that's fine as it is a valid point. But if you believe we should solely focus on that instead of marketing our natural setting, I'm sorry to say, you will not see the results you would hope to see.

[vansky]

i've looked around for videos of tokyo, nyc and personally been to hk and shanghai...

van seems ok, but not so much in terms of shopping.

[vansky]

surrey is "world class" in terms of planning towers and canceling them....

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by mr.x

...the shockwave of the city imploding deeper into smug....

Nature and recreational activities are great, but that's all we're really known for because that's where we put all our attention into while ignoring "man-made" attractions. Not everyone loves the whole natural and recreation scene, not everyone is a die hard outdoors lover. Again, this city severely lacks a variety in attractions (on top of quality and quantity).

You hit the nail on the head. that's the crux of the matter when evaluating Vancouver

[AlexYVR]

Absolutely we rely (hard) on our frigging beautiful natural environment, but we should. It's something to be proud of.

A lot of the criticisms from the German and from Mr. X are warranted - the club scene sucks, arts and culture are constantly struggling (though I feel reinventing themselves just as constantly in interesting and vital new ways that some people on this forum might not seek out or be aware of!). I also feel like it's true that you need to live in Vancouver proper to appreciate Vancouver - but that's probably true of all cities? I don't appreciate Richmond, but I don't live there so I wouldn't judge it on my experiences with it.

For a skyscraper board, everyone on here forgets how world-reknowned Vancouver is for its urban planning and the decisions that were made to turn the city into what it is today. Like it or not, the choices that were made have resulted in a very, very distinctive city that has its pluses (if you buy into them) and its negatives (if you don't). We're as close to a manufactured city as you can get outside of a place like China or Dubai and yet for all our scheming about zoning, bikes, pedestrians, point/podium, etc, we've kept what they will never have - an organic feel that permeates the city and shows you that real people live here. They may be real people who drink Starbucks and like taking their designer dogs for walks on the seawall, but Vancouverites really do use the space around them and fill up the places they inhabit. Is it conventional? Not really. Are most peoples' 'front yards' 2x2 balconies? Yep. Does it work? Somehow, weirdly, yes. We're pretty cool for that, too.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by deasine

Nature and natural setting is what puts Vancouver on top on all lists. If our region decided to focus primarily on entertainment, nightlife, and shopping, Vancouver would be competing with the other major cities that excel in this category. Even if we had more bars, malls, city lights, etc, we will never be able to excel that of New York, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. Population, thus demand, is a limiting factor. So if I wanted to visit a big city with all of the world class shopping, nightlife, etc. why would I visit Vancouver over other major cities in the world?

If the argument is, we should have more shopping, nightlife, and a bit more city lights, that's fine as it is a valid point. But if you believe we should solely focus on that instead of marketing our natural setting, I'm sorry to say, you will not see the results you would hope to see.

I'm not saying that we should focus solely on entertainment, nightlife, shopping (the man made attractions and institutions), but it seems like we haven't even given a real effort to improve them (though I would argue that the region being separated into 21/22 different municipalities has hindered such growth in the arts, culture, nightlife, and shopping.....which is partially why I brought up the amalgamation topic).

We would never be able to match world cities like Hong Kong and New York, but I do think for a region of 2.3-million we're severely lacking in both the quantity and quality of big city attractions.

We should certainly be proud of our natural surroundings, but it seems like we're just far too dependent on it - to the point that we have completely ignored everything else, what a world-class city should be (though we certainly do have a world-class food scene...and I would also rgue that shopping has improved somewhat over the last decade).

In other words, Vancouver should aim to be not just a visual, natural, and recreational tourist destination but also a destination with world-class big city attractions. More (larger and higher quality) museums, nightlife, etc.

The whole thing with closing down the aquarium was just completely asinine.



The whole mentality I have right now is to acknowledge the great things we have (nature, food), but to never be satisfied for that's the only way we will improve (afterall, isn't that how many people get good grades in school?)....but it seems that we may be getting a bit too complacent, becoming a bit too content with what we have because of our natural surroundings to the point we're simply only focusing on one type of thing and ignoring everything else.

[ClearDop]

Where is this sprawling suburbia he speaks of? The whole lower mainland/fraser valley is region is tiny to begin with. And in that region there are tons of town houses and apartment buildings crammed together. Even single detached houses here have tiny yards.

[Rusty Gull]

Vancouver is a small city that one can tire of quickly. Downtown is essentially an urban village with a seawall and a handful of good restaurants and a micro-subway.

But the city lies at the heart of some of the most spectacular terrain and places in the world, and for that it is special. We are in proximity to places like the Gulf Islands, Sea-to-Sky country and the Pemberton Valley, Sunshine Coast, the interior, etc.

[delboy]

Originally Posted by mr.x

If it did, it would be from the shockwave of the city imploding deeper into smug....

Nature and recreational activities are great, but that's all we're really known for because that's where we put all our attention into while ignoring "man-made" attractions. Not everyone loves the whole natural and recreation scene, not everyone is a die hard outdoors lover. Again, this city severely lacks a variety in attractions (on top of quality and quantity).

where have you lived i'm 43 here's my list:

born and raised manchester- lived in portsmouth and plymouth, Edinburgh, have family in the peak district and derbyshire and the lakes - served in the navy in Zebrugge Belgium, spent time in the Haige, left uk lived in Moscow, Instanbul, moved to the US lived in Miami, San Diego and spent time in Penslyvania .......

Don't knock what you have......trust me.... not from here I have no reason to lie

How about you

[SpongeG]

And personally, I don't get the whole nature and recreation thing as our main thing. You can do that ANYWHERE in the world.

a guy i met moved here from italy and he loved that aspect - he lived in milan he loved that you could drive an hour and be in the middle of nothing he loved how vast and open and how close nature was to the city - he always felt cramped in in milan and there was no true wilderness according to him there

so no you can't do that anywhere in the world

[big T]

Delboy, I wouldn't knock Mr.X's post so fast. He makes a good point that not everyone is necessarily into the outdoors all that much.
Take myself for example -- I can't ski (tried once, seven years ago -- it was not fun), I've never played team sports on a regular basis and yet I decided to move here. Why? I guess being one of the largest cities in the country I assumed it would have much to offer beyond the great outdoors it is well known for. Yes, I did my (thorough) research beforehand, but ultimately it is impossible to truly grasp the reality of a place before you've spent a fair amount of time there yourself -- in no small part because said reality is subjective, and other's experiences may not really apply.

So do I think the "urban" side of Van is lacking? yes, a little bit. The jazz fest was pretty sad, for one. The folk music festival last week sounded fun but was grossly overpriced. On a regular week end night there's only a handful of good spots I know of (to my taste, anyway). It is a bit of a sleepy town in general.
But do I regret my choice? absolutely not. I will always miss things from other places I've lived in, but on average this is a pretty kick-ass compromise. Since I'm here, I've been going on long bike rides almost every week end. I'm planning on joining a canoe club as soon as the work schedule allows. Heck, I might even give skiing a second shot. And on top of all that, when the mood strikes there still are a reasonable amount of "city" things to do (and with all these new outdoors activities, the mood doesn't stike quite as often). I believe it's about adapting to what the city (and its surroundings) has to offer. Now that I did, this is a pretty hard to beat corner of the globe -- offers a balance I'd be hard pressed to find anywhere. But ultimately, mr.X is right -- more choice is always better. As we gain more population, I believe it will happen.

(and if they could only drop the "best place on earth" obnoxiousness, it would actually BE the best place on earth...)

[SpongeG]

Vancouver is "scene" driven always has been and seems it always will be - unless you know what you like you probably can't find it

I know i used to go out 5 nights a week or more back in the day and would see the same people night after bight - the venues changed but the people didn't change too much

i've met tourists who get puzzled - they say i was here last night and had the most amazing time so i came again tonight and its dead - which is common - go to the proper club and you will get that great night again you just have to know where to go what scene to follow

[ClearDop]

Originally Posted by AlexYVR

Absolutely we rely (hard) on our frigging beautiful natural environment, but we should. It's something to be proud of.

A lot of the criticisms from the German and from Mr. X are warranted - the club scene sucks, arts and culture are constantly struggling (though I feel reinventing themselves just as constantly in interesting and vital new ways that some people on this forum might not seek out or be aware of!). I also feel like it's true that you need to live in Vancouver proper to appreciate Vancouver - but that's probably true of all cities? I don't appreciate Richmond, but I don't live there so I wouldn't judge it on my experiences with it.

For a skyscraper board, everyone on here forgets how world-reknowned Vancouver is for its urban planning and the decisions that were made to turn the city into what it is today. Like it or not, the choices that were made have resulted in a very, very distinctive city that has its pluses (if you buy into them) and its negatives (if you don't). We're as close to a manufactured city as you can get outside of a place like China or Dubai and yet for all our scheming about zoning, bikes, pedestrians, point/podium, etc, we've kept what they will never have - an organic feel that permeates the city and shows you that real people live here. They may be real people who drink Starbucks and like taking their designer dogs for walks on the seawall, but Vancouverites really do use the space around them and fill up the places they inhabit. Is it conventional? Not really. Are most peoples' 'front yards' 2x2 balconies? Yep. Does it work? Somehow, weirdly, yes. We're pretty cool for that, too.

What makes Vancouver such a "manufactured" city? Theres so much random in-fill going on there. I'd say its as far from a "manufactured" city as possible. More like a developer's free-for-all.

I can appreciate Vancouver for what it is though. I don't live there but I was born and raised in the lower mainland and I've probably spent more time in Vancouver than most of its residents

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by delboy

where have you lived i'm 43 here's my list:

born and raised manchester- lived in portsmouth and plymouth, Edinburgh, have family in the peak district and derbyshire and the lakes - served in the navy in Zebrugge Belgium, spent time in the Haige, left uk lived in Moscow, Instanbul, moved to the US lived in Miami, San Diego and spent time in Penslyvania .......

Don't knock what you have......trust me.... not from here I have no reason to lie

How about you

I've been to...

- Seattle
- Hong Kong
- Calgary
- Toronto
- San Francisco
- Los Angeles
- San Diego
- Sydney
- Macau
- Guangzhou
- Taipei
- Minneapolis
- London


I'm not knocking what we have. I'm arguing for making it better. This city horrendously lacks variety in things to do: it simply needs more variety. And while it should most certainly market its natural beauty and recreational activities, it shouldn't be DEPENDING on just these two things.

If we're already satisfied, we're in trouble.

[SpongeG]

those places all have something we don't - lots of people!

plus people here pay what 70% of their income to mortage or rent? they have fun money left over

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

those places all have something we don't - lots of people!

plus people here pay what 70% of their income to mortage or rent? they have fun money left over

Well I was never comparing ourselves to those cities (or at least most of them), he simply asked (population is obviously a major factor)...though yes, I do take in inspiration.

But with 2.3-million, I do think we should have a bit more than what we currently have.

[AlexYVR]

Originally Posted by ClearDop

What makes Vancouver such a "manufactured" city? Theres so much random in-fill going on there. I'd say its as far from a "manufactured" city as possible. More like a developer's free-for-all.

I can appreciate Vancouver for what it is though. I don't live there but I was born and raised in the lower mainland and I've probably spent more time in Vancouver than most of its residents

It's a conscious choice on the part of the city to be in bed with developers - believe it or not, it's the city that laid out the cans and can'ts for the developers with the succession of masterplans through the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. We pioneered entrepreneurial, rather than managerial, municipal government. Sure we gave Yaletown to Concord Pacific but why do you think all the buildings have the forms they do? Townhouse/point tower? Why do you think Vancouver has so much mixed-use development? It's because the city had enough foresight to shape zoning to make it happen.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by AlexYVR

It's a conscious choice on the part of the city to be in bed with developers - believe it or not, it's the city that laid out the cans and can'ts for the developers with the succession of masterplans through the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s. We pioneered entrepreneurial, rather than managerial, municipal government. Sure we gave Yaletown to Concord Pacific but why do you think all the buildings have the forms they do? Townhouse/point tower? Why do you think Vancouver has so much mixed-use development? It's because the city had enough foresight to shape zoning to make it happen.

I agree. And there's a reason why Dubai sent their people here to scout the city, looking for inspiration for their own....or why Abu Dhabi stole some of Vancouver's city planning talent.

Not that I'm arguing against all the developments we've experienced...I'm certainly not.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by mr.x

Well I was never comparing ourselves to those cities (or at least most of them), he simply asked (population is obviously a major factor)...though yes, I do take in inspiration.

But with 2.3-million, I do think we should have a bit more than what we currently have.

yah but most cities have other cities close to them with the same populations which makes it better - we have seattle but there is a border crossing involved...

toronto has boston, chicago, detroit, montreal, new york etc all within hours - what do we have? spuzzum, kelowna, merrit, nanaimo - hardly the masses wanting prada maybe a good farm tool or an H&M top

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

yah but most cities have other cities close to them with the same populations which makes it better - we have seattle but there is a border crossing involved...

toronto has boston, chicago, detroit, montreal, new york etc all within hours - what do we have? spuzzum, kelowna, merrit, nanaimo - hardly the masses wanting prada maybe a good farm tool or an H&M top

Again, I never said I was comparing...taking inspiration for the future, but not comparing.


LOLLL....maybe we should have had the Chinese do a communist rampage over Hong Kong upon their handover in 1997. That would definitely send over the masses.