DETROIT | Development & Construction: Motown Lowdown

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by hudkina

There's no point in resorting to hyperbole. A simple, "That sucks, I wish they wouldn't do that." is all that is needed...

Yes, B.S. excuses Detroit has made for years. Tear down perfectly good buildings. Oh that's sucks...carry on, nothing to see here!

The only exaggeration here is Detroit calling a casino, a bar, a pizza place, a bakery, a couple liquor stores, and several parking garages a district. That's called an intersection....maybe a block. Calling it a -town is just as bastardizing as the AsianTown Parking garage.

I hate seeing the last shreds of life in this great city reduced to rubble. For what? Shaving off a couple minutes for valet.

[animatedmartian]

For more positive development, new renderings and plans of the Whole Foods in Midtown. Nothing too dramatic, though I do like the mural panels that's along John R.

http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...216d288a01092b

[Rizzo]

^ Damn shame they couldn't put the parking on the roof. Rooftop parking is not uncommon for Whole Foods. It just seems strange they wouldn't have secure parking. Regardless it's nice to see a big food retailer coming to town.

[subterranean]

Looks small. I bet this thing is jam packed day in and day out.

[Cleveland Brown]

Originally Posted by Hayward

^ Damn shame they couldn't put the parking on the roof. Rooftop parking is not uncommon for Whole Foods. It just seems strange they wouldn't have secure parking. Regardless it's nice to see a big food retailer coming to town.

Rooftop parking? The University Heights (Cleveland) store has parking on the roof (open ramp, unless there is a sawhorse in the driveway), but every time I've parked up there I couldn't help but think that the space would be better used as a rooftop Biergarten / wine bar or any other outdoor eating space. It could also help to prevent customers from being bothered, while eating, from panhandlers in the area. And let's not forget, being in Detroit, I wouldn't want to build a permanent unsecured parking ramp to give scrappers easy access to HVAC equipment.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Brown

Rooftop parking? The University Heights (Cleveland) store has parking on the roof (open ramp, unless there is a sawhorse in the driveway), but every time I've parked up there I couldn't help but think that the space would be better used as a rooftop Biergarten / wine bar or any other outdoor eating space. It could also help to prevent customers from being bothered, while eating, from panhandlers in the area. And let's not forget, being in Detroit, I wouldn't want to build a permanent unsecured parking ramp to give scrappers easy access to HVAC equipment.

I can answer those. Here's how I'd design it.

First I'd make this a multi-tenant building. Allow two smaller tenants to occupy the street corner. Whole foods would be shifted closer to the Ellington.

The space between the Ellington and Whole Foods becomes a nice plaza with outdoor seating. Ellington folks get a nicer view (as opposed to a parking lot) and WF patrons are sheltered from the noisy traffic in a better enclosed, shaded, and landscaped place. Usually they can put up a knee wall or fence where you only access the eating area from the inside. I eat outside all the time in nice weather but have never seen homeless approach diners. Does this happen? It seems just as uncommon (and illegal) as panhandlers approaching people at ATMs.

I'd definitely have the entrance face the street at that corner of the plaza as well. Stair towers should be located close by as well. The garage would need to be two levels. To make this building affordable, it could be constructed of precast panels and then faced in a nicer material. Mechanical can usually go rooftop above parking, or you could notch out a secure corner for it...or even locate air handlers internally with wall louvers facing service areas. Scrapping of mechanical equipment occurs less frequently in newer buildings because it can be placed inside. It's a bigger problem with older buildings where there is nowhere to locate equipment.

The parking is gated. You'd have to take a ticket and validate upon purchase. This how most grocery stores with garages work in Chicago. Jewel, Dominicks, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and Target

The two additional tenant spaces would better assist with more retail and restaurant options in the area. It would also permit a more continuous street level.

[Cleveland Brown]

Originally Posted by Hayward

I can answer those. Here's how I'd design it.

First I'd make this a multi-tenant building. Allow two smaller tenants to occupy the street corner. Whole foods would be shifted closer to the Ellington.

The space between the Ellington and Whole Foods becomes a nice plaza with outdoor seating. Ellington folks get a nicer view (as opposed to a parking lot) and WF patrons are sheltered from the noisy traffic in a better enclosed, shaded, and landscaped place. Usually they can put up a knee wall or fence where you only access the eating area from the inside. I eat outside all the time in nice weather but have never seen homeless approach diners. Does this happen? It seems just as uncommon (and illegal) as panhandlers approaching people at ATMs.

I'd definitely have the entrance face the street at that corner of the plaza as well. Stair towers should be located close by as well. The garage would need to be two levels. To make this building affordable, it could be constructed of precast panels and then faced in a nicer material. Mechanical can usually go rooftop above parking, or you could notch out a secure corner for it...or even locate air handlers internally with wall louvers facing service areas. Scrapping of mechanical equipment occurs less frequently in newer buildings because it can be placed inside. It's a bigger problem with older buildings where there is nowhere to locate equipment.

The parking is gated. You'd have to take a ticket and validate upon purchase. This how most grocery stores with garages work in Chicago. Jewel, Dominicks, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and Target

The two additional tenant spaces would better assist with more retail and restaurant options in the area. It would also permit a more continuous street level.

Yes they do. I've never been approached at an ATM (thank goodness), but I have been a couple of times. In fact, Avalon Bakery not too far away on Cass & Willis usually has a panhandler or two asking for change outside the doorway. When they get to close I've seen employees chase them away.

And let's not forget that this project is being subsidized by the city of Detroit. While I agree that there are a million ways to improve upon the design, I think Whole Foods went with the "as cheap as possible while maintaining our high-class image" plan. The Grosse Pointe Trader Joe's has secured parking, but if I remember correctly the deck was built when the retail space was the Jacobson's Department Store (and the Pointes were wealthier). Wouldn't building a parking deck add substantially to the cost of the project? And isn't the cost of acquiring land for surface parking much cheaper than building a parking structure in Detroit - even in desirable midtown/medical center? How much would building a patio/outdoor area on the roof cost? I can't imagine it cannot cost more than the price of adding an elevator, stairway, maybe a small cafe addition to the roof, and the cost of landscaping the roof.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Brown

Yes they do. I've never been approached at an ATM (thank goodness), but I have been a couple of times. In fact, Avalon Bakery not too far away on Cass & Willis usually has a panhandler or two asking for change outside the doorway. When they get to close I've seen employees chase them away.

And let's not forget that this project is being subsidized by the city of Detroit. While I agree that there are a million ways to improve upon the design, I think Whole Foods went with the "as cheap as possible while maintaining our high-class image" plan. The Grosse Pointe Trader Joe's has secured parking, but if I remember correctly the deck was built when the retail space was the Jacobson's Department Store (and the Pointes were wealthier). Wouldn't building a parking deck add substantially to the cost of the project? And isn't the cost of acquiring land for surface parking much cheaper than building a parking structure in Detroit - even in desirable midtown/medical center? How much would building a patio/outdoor area on the roof cost? I can't imagine it cannot cost more than the price of adding an elevator, stairway, maybe a small cafe addition to the roof, and the cost of landscaping the roof.

That's unfortunate about the homeless. I've never experienced this but I suppose it happens. It may have alot to do with inadequate manpower to enforce pandhandling laws, but since I suggested the enclosed and sheltered seating area, it may take care of that problem.

As far as additional costs, your accessible rooftop and garden is approaching the same costs as my scheme. Depending on how you envision it, possibly more expensive. You are talking 60-100 psf loading vs my 25 psf loading to just support cars. Your scheme is going to require much deeper structure to support all that soil, plants, tables, pavers, and people.. I'd probably opt for steel as opposed to precast concrete double T's or planks that I suggested in my scheme which would require fabrication and more field assembly time. Elevators and stairways are expensive, this is why I tried to justify these additions with a mult-tenant building that could share these components. Plus I need more linear space along the back of the parcel for ramps and approach up to the garage.

A cheaper idea for a green roof is to make inaccessible and place trays of midwest sedum. It's lightweight because it requires less soil.

[LMich]

More Quicken hiring, much it going downtown from what I hear:

Quicken Loans seeks to hire 1,400 for jobs

March 2, 2012 | The Detroit News

Online retail mortgage lender Quicken Loans is seeking 1,400 people for jobs in the Detroit-based company — some of them previously announced.

Recruiting Director Michelle Salvatore told The Associated Press on Thursday that about 300 positions are in technology. Positions also are open for underwriters and other mortgage processors in marketing, human resources, accounting and finance.

[Cleveland Brown]

Originally Posted by Hayward

That's unfortunate about the homeless. I've never experienced this but I suppose it happens. It may have alot to do with inadequate manpower to enforce pandhandling laws, but since I suggested the enclosed and sheltered seating area, it may take care of that problem.

As far as additional costs, your accessible rooftop and garden is approaching the same costs as my scheme. Depending on how you envision it, possibly more expensive. You are talking 60-100 psf loading vs my 25 psf loading to just support cars. Your scheme is going to require much deeper structure to support all that soil, plants, tables, pavers, and people.. I'd probably opt for steel as opposed to precast concrete double T's or planks that I suggested in my scheme which would require fabrication and more field assembly time. Elevators and stairways are expensive, this is why I tried to justify these additions with a mult-tenant building that could share these components. Plus I need more linear space along the back of the parcel for ramps and approach up to the garage.

A cheaper idea for a green roof is to make inaccessible and place trays of midwest sedum. It's lightweight because it requires less soil.

Drats! If the costs are that high then I think you're right that a more complex project will not work without additional tenants (I don't think an Eataly New York type project would be feasible in Detroit, but could Detroit Brewing Works relocated to the roof). What a shame that in densifying midtown we're still building large single store buildings with surface parking lots.

[Michi]

^ "Still"? Did I miss the boom?

[subterranean]

Packard Plant Ruins to Be Demolished, Owner Says

The man who Detroit officials say is responsible for the aging Packard Motor Car plant -- which has become a worldwide symbol of the city's decay -- is on the verge of demolishing it.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120301/NEWS01/120301073/Packard-plant-ruins-to-be-demolished?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE

[Cleveland Brown]

Originally Posted by Michi

^ "Still"? Did I miss the boom?

Well, I know you were being tongue-in-cheek, but remember we almost lost Orchestra Hall for a gas station. And God knows what was torn down in the last 15 years for the McDonald's and CVS in the area. Outside of downtown, let's not even begin to mention how Anita Baker demolished one of Detroit's few remaining historic Federal-Style houses (Chene House, home to Little Harry's Restaurant) to build an IHOP

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by subterranean

Packard Plant Ruins to Be Demolished, Owner Says



http://www.freep.com/article/20120301/NEWS01/120301073/Packard-plant-ruins-to-be-demolished?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE

Lol I'll believe it when I see it though I bet one gust of wind could topple that brittle structure. The salvage value if brick and steel should promise decent returns though.

[LMich]

There are finally plans to demolish the vacant Frederick Douglass Towers at the Brewster Projects just north of downtown. Now, the wait to see if it happens, this year:

Bing said that this year, in collaboration with the Housing Commission and the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, the city will demolish the old Frederick Douglass housing development, commonly called the Brewster Projects – four vacant high-rise buildings that tower above I-75.

In other tentatively good news, Gilbert is adamant that the Downtown-to-New Center streetcar line will have shovels in the ground by year's end:

Gilbert also addressed several hot topics in Detroit, such as the proposed light rail line on Woodward and the possibility of an emergency financial manager.

He said the light rail plan, which has 29 days left in a 90-day approval period, has the backing it needs and that "the details are being tended to."

"That line will be in the ground by the end of this calendar year," he said.

Finally, another Gilbert announcements:

Dan Gilbert is expecting to bring nearly 2,000 more employees this year to downtown Detroit.

Gilbert, founder and chairman of Quicken Loans Inc., said 1,800 employees involved with his umbrella companies, including the online mortgage giant and Title Source Inc., are scheduled to move to the First National Bank Building and Dime Building by year's end.

“By the end of 2012, our family of companies will have about 5,400 full-time people right here in Campus Martius -- and that’s a city,” Gilbert said Wednesday at the Idea: Detroit conference, hosted by Advertising Age and Crain's Detroit Business. “I think it’s one of the best moves we’ve ever made.”

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by LMich

There are finally plans to demolish the vacant Frederick Douglass Towers at the Brewster Projects just north of downtown. Now, the wait to see if it happens, this year:



In other tentatively good news, Gilbert is adamant that the Downtown-to-New Center streetcar line will have shovels in the ground by year's end:

And in the same article, finally some sense. In the classic chick or the egg scenario or retail vs. people, do both!

After acquiring buildings up and down Woodward between Grand Circus Park and Jefferson over the last year, Gilbert said that he and his real estate team have been holding-off on the requests from retailers to rent space.


"The interest is really high," he said. "But we want to put this off until we can put everything into one big design."


The end goal, he said, is to have one large plan to have all of the retail developed under one master plan.

[Michi]

I'm only skeptical of any comments made toward rail. I remember, when I was in college not too long ago, that Woodward Light Rail would be open and fully functional in 2011. That seemed so far away at the time! Instead, public transportation has all but disintegrated since then.

[animatedmartian]

More about the Woodward Corridor development.



http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...g-bang-theory#

Vision for retail video.

[Rizzo]

Originally Posted by animatedmartian

More about the Woodward Corridor development.



http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...g-bang-theory#

Vision for retail video.

^ Yes Please! I hope the next big annoucement would be a retail / residential property on the Hudsons site.

I was in town over the weekend. Here's a couple phone pics of the Auburn

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by Hayward

^ Yes Please! I hope the next big annoucement would be a retail / residential property on the Hudsons site.

I was in town over the weekend. Here's a couple phone pics of the Auburn

My work fronted some of the money for the complex financial package it took to make the Auburn a reality. I hope it is a success.