George Massey Tunnel Replacement | Proposed

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Maybe it has been mentioned earlier, but the signs along HWY99 are stating that "buildings STARTS in 2017". I wonder what that optimism is based on?

Guess when the next provincial election is?

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by Genauso

Hopefully the Oak St bridge gets an upgrade, alternative, or replacement

Two giant potholes are in the southbound lanes. Every winter for the last handful of years the Oak St bridge has these problems, in part due to heavy traffic and in part due to being low above the ocean. It's not as bad as last winter yet, but it's early and repairs take too long in a way that's never a problem for infrastructure east of Boundary Rd. It's only two lanes each way for the most important intercity highway of the region, it can't handle losing one lane.

Issue is membrane failure causing debonding. The bridge deck on oak is only 18 years old as i recall

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by jlenko

We need a thread for this.. but it's been tried, at least twice I can think of.. and it failed miserably.

Since there is no thread, Cavan anyone provide more details about how this didnt work in the past? I too would love to see a passenger ferry.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Klazu

If there would be a be a paraller bridge connecting to Cambie Street, I think the current 2+2 Oak Street Bridge would be okay for long time to go. Adding more lanes on the bridge will only move the problem onwards to Oak Street, which cannot be widened. That's why more of the arterial streets should have their own bridge connection.

Knight Street bridge should definitely be 3+3 lanes (if not even 4+4 to help merging and public transit). It is actually quite wide bridge structure and perhaps could be widened without too much extra work / cost?

Oak street is 3+3 lanes the whole way. Another lane's worth of traffic gets off the Oak street bridge onto Marine. A 4+4 lane Oak Street bridge would be good as it wouldn't add to the volume on Oak (as the flow is controlled by the light at 70th). But it would make the Queue not stretch into Richmond to the 91 interchange at peak hours.

In the PM peak it is worse. The back up SB stretches to 57th most days on Oak. That is because you have 3 lanes on Oak, and 2 lanes EB and 2 lanes WB from 70th, 7 lanes of traffic, trying to get on the bridge.

Also, a new bridge could interface with Marine better. If a new bridge were built so that traffic could go FROM Marine ONTO the Bridge, then you could dramatically shorten the light at 70th and improve the flow of traffic in the whole Marpole area.

You could double the capacity of the bridge without adding any lanes in Vancouver (in fact you could take some away from 70th) and get improved flow in the city.

Even if you were to do the absolute least, and make the bridge 6 lanes and make no other changes to any other roads, traffic in Vancouver would be so much better.

But what I would do to further improve traffic on the Oak Street bridge is build a new bridge at either Main or Fraser and connect to Shell or No 5 Road (or both). It would spread out the city to city traffic between Richmond and Vancouver, keeping short trips off the freeway and making the cities feel more connected. It is kind of insane to think there are only 12 lanes connecting 2 large cities.

[osirisboy]

Agreed^. Oak is 6 lanes plus a lane to marine so it would make sense for the bridge to be 8 lanes.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

But what I would do to further improve traffic on the Oak Street bridge is build a new bridge at either Main or Fraser and connect to Shell or No 5 Road (or both).

Ah, the Fraser Street bridge! I remember riding across it on my bike when I was but a wee lad. It was a 1+1 lane swing span. My, how far we've come!

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The premier promised that date before the election.

Somebody should start a Bill Vanderzalm style petition to have a referendum on the new bridge...

As people have posted in their experiences here, there is no question a new crossing is needed. This isn't some useless frippery like the Pt Grey bike lane, its required to keep goods and people moving.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by whatnext

As people have posted in their experiences here, there is no question a new crossing is needed. This isn't some useless frippery like the Pt Grey bike lane, its required to keep goods and people moving.

Put it to a referendum. Say... don't we have one of those coming up?

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Put it to a referendum. Say... don't we have one of those coming up?

Referendums are just plain dumb for any big capital project like a new bridge or new transit line... For numerous reasons.
Most people aren't city planners, so they won't always make the right decision, and in addition to that, a lot of people don't look at it as a referendum on the project, they look at it as a referendum on increasing taxes or not.

The fact of the matter is that a new crossing is needed, just as a broadway line is needed. Putting either to any sort of referendum just jeopardizes these sorely needed projects.
I'd rather the government just suck it up and take responsibility for these projects and associated taxes and get it done, rather than try and pass the blame onto the voters themselves.

You could have a vote on whether the world is flat, and if the majority voted yes, that doesn't change the facts, it just means the majority of people are wrong.
Same thing with voting for a new crossing or broadway line. Just because people vote no doesn't change the fact that the projects are needed in the long term.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

Referendums are just plain dumb for any big capital project like a new bridge or new transit line... For numerous reasons.
Most people aren't city planners, so they won't always make the right decision, and in addition to that, a lot of people don't look at it as a referendum on the project, they look at it as a referendum on increasing taxes or not.

The fact of the matter is that a new crossing is needed, just as a broadway line is needed. Putting either to any sort of referendum just jeopardizes these sorely needed projects.
I'd rather the government just suck it up and take responsibility for these projects and associated taxes and get it done, rather than try and pass the blame onto the voters themselves.

You could have a vote on whether the world is flat, and if the majority voted yes, that doesn't change the facts, it just means the majority of people are wrong.
Same thing with voting for a new crossing or broadway line. Just because people vote no doesn't change the fact that the projects are needed in the long term.

I totally agree with all of your points and not sure you picked up on my earlier sarcasm.

I think a proper decision shouldn't rest with any politician or political party or the public. I would like to see a cross-political party agreement at the provincial level to have an independent third-party expert develop a priority list for large scale projects provincial wide. Have a roll out plan that will go over the next 15 years. With prior cross-political party agreement to this expert third-party recommendation list we wouldn't have drastic changes in infrastructure priorities at each election. We also wouldn't have pre-election announcements about massive projects to garner votes. There would be stability for the tax payer and private industry who is likely to build many of the projects.

[makr3trkr]

https://twitter.com/news1130traffic/...85127193886720
News1130 @news1130traffic
9:09 #DELTABC Serious crash blocking traffic in both directions on #BCHwy99 north of #BCHwy17. Thx Dave for the pic


http://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/co...on_highway_99/
Close up view of the fire on Highway 99 (i.imgur.com)


https://twitter.com/deltapolice/stat...08387280945152
Delta Police ‏@deltapolice

[BCPhil]

What is with this stretch of road and really bad truck drivers?

Hell, what is with the really bad truck drivers in the lower mainland period? There seems to be a highway closing accident weekly now.

I don't like to be insensitive, but I'm actually glad about what the port is doing. Maybe we will have fewer accidents in the future with 600 fewer trucks on the roads.

[SOSS]

Can you imagine if this accident happened in the tunnel? Would have been a very different, much more tragic, outcome.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

What is with this stretch of road and really bad truck drivers?

Hell, what is with the really bad truck drivers in the lower mainland period? There seems to be a highway closing accident weekly now.

I don't like to be insensitive, but I'm actually glad about what the port is doing. Maybe we will have fewer accidents in the future with 600 fewer trucks on the roads.

It angers me as a commuter that I always encounter absolutely insane truck drivers. It is mostly due to the fact that many have unrealistic deadlines to meet and often have to drive in excess of 110 km/hr.

It is absolutely insane when I see trucks passing me when I am driving 20km/hr over the speed limit. Some of these drivers are very erratic, weaving in and our of traffic, cutting cars off and even blocking the passing lane. Keep in mind that many of these trucks are in poor shape, and the sometimes loads are unevenly distributed within the confines of a trailer which further makes matters worse.

[makr3trkr]

https://twitter.com/ScanBC/status/560509211965403136
ScanBC ‏@ScanBC

#RCMP report 1 person has died after a dump truck rolled over on #BCHwy99 in Delta. Pic @stucktweet

[red-paladin]

Interesting that Massey's (the man) original plan was for 3 lanes north and south with a bike/walk way in the middle. It was downsized due to budget concerns.

• Video Link

[trofirhen]

Isn't downsizing due to budget concers so often the case?
Really. In Vancouver AND elsewhere, stuff seems to get "downsized" for lack of funds, and an inferior product results.
You pay for less, you get less.

[WarrenC12]

Has anything new been released about the plans for this bridge? I can't believe we have much more detailed plans, proposals, and even a leading candidate for the Patullo replacement, which is likely to happen after this, even if the vote passes.

I've seen no consultation, no options, no real concrete plans other than some lame flyby video that doesn't really explain anything.

I don't even know where this crossing will be. I just know it will connect to the 99 on either side, and can't be built in the exact spot of the GMT today.

...and people call Translink incompetent...

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Has anything new been released about the plans for this bridge? I can't believe we have much more detailed plans, proposals, and even a leading candidate for the Patullo replacement, which is likely to happen after this, even if the vote passes.

I've seen no consultation, no options, no real concrete plans other than some lame flyby video that doesn't really explain anything.

I don't even know where this crossing will be. I just know it will connect to the 99 on either side, and can't be built in the exact spot of the GMT today.

...and people call Translink incompetent...

The reason why the Patullo bridge has far more detailed / concrete plans is because if it were not for New West objecting to it it would be at least half complete in construction currently. I was at those open houses years ago (maybe 4 years ago) and the 6 lane plan had been chossen after many public open houses and the plan was to have the bridge open by 2017 I believe, which is the same date the George massey issuppose to start construction.

Even so, I am also interested to see many more details regarding this plan, and it would be great if it is an entire rebuild of the 99 corridor with a rapid bus system.

[Infrequent Poster]

My biggest question is. Will they upgrade the rest of the highway? I know this question has been brought up all ready on here, and most people seem to have the opinion that it is a given that they will. I remain pretty skeptical however and until I read something official saying they are, I would not be surprised to see some half assed 5 lanes into 2 a short ways before and after the bridge. I would be pleasantly surprised if they did upgrade all the way from the border to vancouver, but like i say I think this would be the surprise scenario, I just dont see it happening.