Office tower envy

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by vid

Toronto and North York, versus Sydney and it's, what, 20 suburban downtowns that are all about half the size of North York?

Sydney isn't as centralized as people on here think. I am pretty sure it actually sprawls more than Toronto does.

Transit planning must sure be fun

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Whippersnapper

A bunch of pension-funded commercial ventures hardly speaks of design in Toronto. I look towards the market as a whole in which case design is dominated by condominiums. I also find innovative and daring design overstated particular in residential construction which is largely developed on shoestring budgets. The outcome rarely lives up to its potential and innovative simply becomes an excuse for acceptance.

I like your choices aside from Richard Johnson Square which, to my inner pragmatist, is downright wasteful however, did I not state that Australia offers gems that are unmatched in Canada? I care more about the median offering and, in my opinion, we would kick their asses if we eliminated window-wall.

So you’re blaming Ontario’s teachers for bad architecture? How are office towers elsewhere funded differently? The source of the money is inconsequential. The quality and cost of office tower construction is twice that of residential, hence the best and least-cookie-cutter designs are expected to be office

I prefer glass, so I’m not a fan of Australia’s mostly white-clad condos. Toronto has made windowwall look good with several examples, despite lower price-points up till recently, so the issue definitely isn’t about the cladding.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The MNP tower especially, i noticed you purposely choose its worst looking render to post (smaller too) Same with the Credit Suisse tower. Actually a very nice looking proposal, but all you showed was its crown.

MNP looks different from every angle, so the best or worst render is pretty subjective. Credit Suisse is more interesting for its facade treatment than its overall form anyway.

Originally Posted by AndrewJM3D and kwoldtimer, paraphrased by Dleung

I love how you omitted [a mid-rise proposal, an arcade from 1987, and a 7th blue box] from your lineup of recent Toronto office towers. Had they been included, surely it would have invalidated the pattern you are clearly trying to imply, and bring us on par with Sydney's office towers, hence we have nothing to be jealous of!

If there is nothing to be jealous of, Caltrane wouldn’t be veering off topic about honies in Monaco, or shoving an atrium into a 300-pound chick, or refusing to get “excited” about Australia… in a thread about current office tower architecture

Originally Posted by The Architect

Jesus talk about picking and choosing.. You could easily argue the opposite with cherrypicked pictures.

Really, the opposite? Please show us how, unless you’re simply being disingenuous and trying to fool others into denying reality, which seems quite prevalent with the number of boosters here.

[Travis007]

I've always been a fan of Aussie architecture, as it features more design variation and creativity. Toronto office proposals are alright but continue to be conservative in terms of design. In terms of 2000 and onwards, the only noticeable progress in creativity has been 100 Adelaide West. I find the recently built/proposed office towers to be decent, but nothing that I find to be "spectacular". The towers from the last construction boom (Scotia Plaza & TD Canada Trust Tower) were more impressive. I hope upcoming projects in the pipeline such as 45 Bay and BAC II will be more interesting.

[vid]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Transit planning must sure be fun

And as far as Transit in Sydney goes, imagine Toronto without the subway or streetcars. That is what Sydney has. Quite possibly the largest city in the world without a higher form of transit.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by vid

Quite possibly the largest city in the world without a higher form of transit.

In the developed world. Though I'm sure Sydney's extensive commuter trains are still more effective than say, Houston's single LRT line.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by vid

And as far as Transit in Sydney goes, imagine Toronto without the subway or streetcars. That is what Sydney has. Quite possibly the largest city in the world without a higher form of transit.

Hey now, they have a monorail!
And ferries. Though I suppose Toronto does too.

[vid]

I thought they dismantled the monorail?

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Hali87

Hey now, they have a monorail!
And ferries. Though I suppose Toronto does too.

And a light rail line as well.

[Andrewjm3D]

When I look at Australia's office towers I see nothing to be jealous of. Yes they have a handful of nice ones in the works but Canadian designs are evolving as well. Australia seems to draw it's design inspiration from Asian cities where as Canada gets it's from the U.s and Europe. I can't be jealous of a tower that would look so out of place in the landscape that it would actually stick out like a sore thumb. Nothing coming out of Australia is trend setting, the examples you showed have many doppelgangers around the globe.

It does seem once again you've created a thread just to bash Toronto. Congrats on another negative thread on the forum.

The_Architect Jesus talk about picking and choosing.. You could easily argue the opposite with cherrypicked pictures. - Exactly.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Would a tourist to Toronto really want to spend more than four days downtown? I love Toronto an awful lot, but I can't really imagine many tourists coming to Toronto specifically to spend a week in the city.

Couldn't say but I generally spend 1 to 2 weeks in a single location when I travel. The trip where I went to Australia was 8 months in duration so there wasn't a time constraint (sold my Toronto home and was waiting for my next home to be built).

Heck, I'm writing this from downtown Detroit where I've found the people to be friendly, easy to get around as a pedestrian, and thanks for the Lafayette Market is livable. Certainly lots of nooks and crannies to explore.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by dleung

So you’re blaming Ontario’s teachers for bad architecture? How are office towers elsewhere funded differently? The source of the money is inconsequential. The quality and cost of office tower construction is twice that of residential, hence the best and least-cookie-cutter designs are expected to be office

I'm more concerned about your hand picking of select project. Sure the title may say "office tower envy" however, you infer a select group of office towers reflect the city's architecture as a whole. The pension funds are out for the largest tenants who demand massive squarish floor plates. I don't know if you've ever been in Scotia Plaza however, it's dank and cramped in comparison to TD Centre, Commerce Court West and Bay Adelaide. I also wouldn't go so far to call these simply glass "boxes" bad architecture over the lack of "innovative" add ons such as a full height atrium or a couple poles on the roof. The materials are quality; they meet the street extremely well; and the spaces are light and airy. And, I don't understand why you singled out the Ontario teachers in your response. BCIMC has been and continues to be as busy.

[dleung]

Again, the funding model for our office towers has zero bearing on the architecture, so whether it's Teachers or BCIMC is moot. Also strange is the need to defend the city's architecture as a whole when our superior condo architecture is already acknowledged, and the subject is office towers?

And if you accuse someone of cherrypicking, at least do your homework and show what else has been so greviously omitted. Is 100 Adelaide - a proposal of a box with chipped corners - that big a gamechanger that it will have invalidated such an overwhelmingly obvious general pattern?

[Troll]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Trying to get me excited about Austraila, is like trying to to get me excited about going on a date with a 300 pound fat chick.

Oh you don't like it? How about if we put a giant atrium inside it, or maybe slap a thong on it.

Damn, you're right sorry for not noticing, its very sexy. My bad.

Stick to posting pictures.

[vid]

You don't like Caltrane's posts about all his honees?

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by Troll

Stick to posting pictures.

Just for you only picture updates for the rest of the weekend!

[Chadillaccc]

Thank gods...

[vid]

Make it the next week and I'll send you some fine Thunder Bay honies. Chlamydia free since 2003!

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by vid

Make it the next week and I'll send you some fine Thunder Bay honies. Chlamydia free since 2003!

Will do.

But don't forget, you asked for it.

[espalorius]

Originally Posted by vid

And as far as Transit in Sydney goes, imagine Toronto without the subway or streetcars. That is what Sydney has. Quite possibly the largest city in the world without a higher form of transit.

hmmmmm imagine toronto with two airport train stations...

sydney has a hybrid style system that doesn't really fit n.american classification. inner city stations are most definitely high frequency and hey, according to wikipedia, 1million riders a day CAN'T be wrong.

[vegeta_skyline]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Just for you only picture updates for the rest of the weekend!

aww man, why'd you listen to the troll? I love seeing how your innocuous comments gets everyone up in arms.