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  #61  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2007, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kyle_olsen View Post
Calgary is not one of those cities, or rather not as much as you would expect. All infrastructure within the subdivision itself is paid for directly by the developer. Cost for police, fire, library and recreation facilities is somewhat covered by the additional development levies developers pay to the city above the cost recovery basis for planning services.

Well said. I don't think many people realize this. And it was mentioned earlier that the development fee has gone up substantially under Mayor Bronconnier to help pay for the services such as police, fire, etc. Developers are also forced to pay for upgrades to roads that are not even part of their subdivision, but are roadways that lead to it. Case in point would be 17th Ave on the west end of town. Originally it was a two lane rural road. Now with all the development out there the capacity of it needed to be increased. This upgrade to the road is fully paid for by developers whose land borders 17th Ave.

There are still problems with the maintenance budgets of it though. All of this new stuff costs money to maintain and the city simply doesn't have the budget to maintain what it currently has, let alone more new stuff. We do our best, but it is tough.
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  #62  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2007, 4:42 PM
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There sure seems to be alot of idealistic chatter about taxes/levies to eliminate subsidies to the new suburbs and the ever-evil automobile. According to Kyle Olsen's post, new suburb infrastructure is basically paid for by the developer and gas tax is able to cover the cost of other road construction and maintenance.

What about a user fee on autombiles to curb their use, would that help? I have no idea what kind of structure you dreamers would propose, but I hope you're ready for the spin-off costs. Think trucking companies will swallow the increased cost? Nope, they'll pass it on to the consumer. Think the pizza delivery guy won't be charging extra now? What about the student that needs to get to that 8 AM class? They can drive (and apparantly pay through the nose for the priviledge), or get up at 5 AM to work with CT's schedule (that'll be great for the grades!).

Why stop there? What about health care? There sure are a lot of fat people out there and they're sure to be an eventual burden on the system. Fast food is cheap but very unhealthy, so we'll have to tax it heavily to cover the eventual costs... say 100%. Awww that poor family of four's meal just cost them $40.

And hey, what about income taxes in general. If we're taxing things on a per use basis, maybe taxes shouldn't be based on income, but more on the individual's burden on the system. Maybe a single mother of three making $30k a year should pay the same dollar amount in tax as the single guy making $120. Afterall, the single guy doesn't have children in school etc...

You can apply this tax-per-use to everything, but that's not practical. At least, not when it's inconvenient for some of the posters on this forum.
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  #63  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2007, 5:58 PM
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I'm just surprised that the city doesn't already account for this. I know in some other cities it's not just the property value alone - they use things like postal codes to determine the area a property is in, and modify taxes accordingly.

If it costs more to service a suburb - charge more property tax. Problem solved. I'm all for more user-pay scenarios as I'm also personally sick of subsidizing other people's poor lifestyle choices that I happen to disagree with.
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  #64  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 6:12 AM
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Here's a documentary titled "The End of Suburbia" I found on youtube. It's not bad. 52 mins long but interesting to say the least. It'll give Boris a hard-on that's for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3uvzcY2Xug
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  #65  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 8:58 AM
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Here's a documentary titled "The End of Suburbia" I found on youtube. It's not bad. 52 mins long but interesting to say the least. It'll give Boris a hard-on that's for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3uvzcY2Xug
interesting... is watching it
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  #66  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 9:45 AM
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aww yes the peak oil issue... were so screwed
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 6:22 PM
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Nuclear.

Discuss.

Oh, and NG prices have been down and flat for a long time since this film was made.
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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 6:27 PM
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True.

I think the solution for electricity will be Nuclear augmented by Wind and Solar, and perhaps other green trechnologies if they become viable (like tidal power generation etc.)

As far as oil goes, well we'll simply have to learn to consume less of it.

Kris
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  #69  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 6:43 PM
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Heh. What starts with a decent premise rapidly degrades down to your typical fear-mongering alarmism.

Their "hydrogen can't possibly ever work because it needs methane" and "OMG hydrogen crash tests" are purely laughable.
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  #70  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 7:00 PM
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Stop breeding.

Growth fuels all of this, folks. I'm not sure why no one ever mentions this anymore. Cities and towns encroached onto farmland LONG before suburbs ever were conceived - where the hell do people think cities came from in the first place? Sorry, but that repeated mentioning of "OMG suburbs are taking over farmland" was a needless appeal to emotion. CITIES ALWAYS HAVE.

It's growth that drives all of this. Growth of the economy. Growth of the population. Growth of our cities. All that higher densities and less use of energy per capita will do is prolong the problem. At some point even the densest of city will still be expanding outwards, and you'll have the exact same problem. Stop making more of us.

The other thing I took from that film is what scares me the most - a return to these "local values" and "closeness with your neighbours" and "hey, in the 30s everyone knew their neighbours" and "globalism will disappear". Yay. Xenophobia and racism return! We can be just like Europe!

Sorry folks, but it's vitally important that we keep communicating with people 3000km away. Whether that's by SUV trip or an email over the Internet, the LAST thing human society needs is to become more insular and more locally-focussed. Tribalism is disgusting. Small little enclaves only worrying about themselves, and having minimal contact with outsiders - yeah, um, no thanks. That's the last thing I want to emulate.
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  #71  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 7:02 PM
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^Speaking from an engineering standpoint, hydrogen is a pretty ridiculous fuel source. Sure, it is possible, and in the future hydrogen will likely provide a component of our energy needs. However, the claim that we can replace our entire oil based system with a hydrogen one is equally laughable.
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 7:10 PM
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^Speaking from an engineering standpoint, hydrogen is a pretty ridiculous fuel source. Sure, it is possible, and in the future hydrogen will likely provide a component of our energy needs. However, the claim that we can replace our entire oil based system with a hydrogen one is equally laughable.
With today's technology, sure. At the current cost of oil-based energy, absolutely.

All we need is a storage mechanism for energy (hydrogen is NOT AN ENERGY SOURCE). Hell, our current inefficient batteries would work fine for 99% of people's transportation needs, if documentaries like this are correct (trips to the store, the office, etc being what most people use their cars for).

Long distance electric rail, short distance hydrogen/battery power. Power generation from thorium breeder plants. Shit, if bloody fusion research could ever see some real financing, we could synthesize petroleum from scratch in huge quantities - not that the efficiencies there would make any sense, but we COULD.

It would take at most 10-20 years to migrate 99% of our infrastructure new energy sources and transfer mechanisms, no differently than how cars came in and took over so quickly.

Rumours of doomsday are exaggerated.
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  #73  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 7:52 PM
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Stop breeding.

Growth fuels all of this, folks. I'm not sure why no one ever mentions this anymore. Cities and towns encroached onto farmland LONG before suburbs ever were conceived - where the hell do people think cities came from in the first place? Sorry, but that repeated mentioning of "OMG suburbs are taking over farmland" was a needless appeal to emotion. CITIES ALWAYS HAVE.

It's growth that drives all of this. Growth of the economy. Growth of the population. Growth of our cities. All that higher densities and less use of energy per capita will do is prolong the problem. At some point even the densest of city will still be expanding outwards, and you'll have the exact same problem. Stop making more of us.
Well yes, that's absolutely true. Even high-density expands outwards. But they do so slower... it is prolonging the problem a bit, and you are right, we need to re-think growth. A lot of people think that getting more migrants per year than someone else is a sign of achievement in itself, where it really is just a means to other ends. High-Density does at least have a negative effect on natural growth at least, as less people will have children. I think China's one-child policy will/has certainly help cut down on global overpopulation problems.

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The other thing I took from that film is what scares me the most - a return to these "local values" and "closeness with your neighbours" and "hey, in the 30s everyone knew their neighbours" and "globalism will disappear". Yay. Xenophobia and racism return! We can be just like Europe!

Sorry folks, but it's vitally important that we keep communicating with people 3000km away. Whether that's by SUV trip or an email over the Internet, the LAST thing human society needs is to become more insular and more locally-focussed. Tribalism is disgusting. Small little enclaves only worrying about themselves, and having minimal contact with outsiders - yeah, um, no thanks. That's the last thing I want to emulate.
Both of these are big topics in the study of urban areas.

The ideal for the "closeness" is to try and bring back primary face-to-face connections between people that are much closer and personal. However, a lot of people in the field would disagree that this is even the ideal situation, as there are also benefits that people reap from secondary connections and virtual connections, such as increased privacy. Primary relations have a strong effect of increasing social control in the community and thus help cut down on local crime (by pushing it to other areas), but also have an equally exclusionary effect to people with different values and beliefs.

As for globalization, the effect is usually regarding both the political economy and the health of the city economy and community. There should be no doubt that the mom's and pop's stores of the past have declined due to big retailers such as Walmart, and the economic pundits celebrate this as the model is more efficient. Similarly, industries relocate their employees, or at the least threaten to do so. This gives businesses a disproportionate share of political power that supercedes the one-person, one-vote rule. Globalization also eliminates reinvestment into local areas, by funneling out the money and working off a model that is anti-urban in nature. Simply put, the manager at your local Walmart probably doesn't care what the sidewalks are like, what their contributions to the community are, and probably only care about degradation in the area as far as making sure there are no homeless people in the parking lot asking for change...

I think many people realize that we can't escape from the global economy and very much question the merit of such a sentiment. I certainly do, I value the global connections that Calgary is embedded in and wish for them to grow. But at the same time... you have to ask at what point we go too far and totally lose both the political-economic independence and integrity of our cities. If I can get the same job here, the same environment here, the same relations with people here, as I can get anywhere else, what's to stop me from moving?
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  #74  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 8:56 PM
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Heh. What starts with a decent premise rapidly degrades down to your typical fear-mongering alarmism.

Their "hydrogen can't possibly ever work because it needs methane" and "OMG hydrogen crash tests" are purely laughable.

hydrogen takes energy to make... its just a storeage of it but then so is oil...

not sure why manitoba is not putting money into bilding a hydrogen plant in churchill... take water outa the hudsons bay make it and ship it out on ship and train...
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  #75  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 9:15 PM
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^Speaking from an engineering standpoint, hydrogen is a pretty ridiculous fuel source. Sure, it is possible, and in the future hydrogen will likely provide a component of our energy needs. However, the claim that we can replace our entire oil based system with a hydrogen one is equally laughable.
Agreed. I can't see hydrogen being a main source of energy any time soon. Let's first try to improve solar and wind power.
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  #76  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2007, 2:41 AM
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Agreed. I can't see hydrogen being a main source of energy any time soon. Let's first try to improve solar and wind power.
Hydrogen will never be a source of energy. It's just a storage mechanism. Solar and wind (and nuclear, and geothermal, and tidal, and hydroelectric) are what will be used to PRODUCE hydrogen.

Hydrogen's just basically a battery technology. I don't know why so many people don't understand this. It's a completely non-toxic, non-polluting battery technology, which is why it's so cool and a bit of a holy grail - but that's all it really is.
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  #77  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2007, 2:47 AM
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Nice comments Boris. Sometimes you and I are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, and sometimes you manage to pull shit right out of my brain. Kooky.

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If I can get the same job here, the same environment here, the same relations with people here, as I can get anywhere else, what's to stop me from moving?
To me this is one of the best advantages, for the individual, of globalism. I know the thought of a mobile workforce seems to only be an advantage for corporations sometimes, but it's incredibly liberating for the individual, too. We just need a generation or two to get back to the old ways where people actually understood the benefits of moving towards opportunities.

It also (in the long term) might finally free us of the shackles of "hey, I was born here, so it MUST be better than anywhere else" - pretty much the root cause of nationalism, bigotry, and by extension most wars. Not counting religion, of course, which is also often about nothing more than cultural roots and ignorance of anything beyond one's own backyard.
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  #78  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2007, 2:49 AM
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iceland is the worlds only hydrogen econimy...
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  #79  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2007, 6:10 AM
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Hydrogen will never be a source of energy. It's just a storage mechanism. Solar and wind (and nuclear, and geothermal, and tidal, and hydroelectric) are what will be used to PRODUCE hydrogen.

Hydrogen's just basically a battery technology. I don't know why so many people don't understand this. It's a completely non-toxic, non-polluting battery technology, which is why it's so cool and a bit of a holy grail - but that's all it really is.
I thought storage of hydrogen was an issue. Doesn't it leak because the molecules are smaller than those of other materials? Also, I believe there is some danger with handling hydrogen.
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  #80  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2007, 2:44 PM
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I thought storage of hydrogen was an issue. Doesn't it leak because the molecules are smaller than those of other materials? Also, I believe there is some danger with handling hydrogen.
Yup, and like any new technology that isn't entrenched in the marketplace, there are some technical challenges. There's danger in handling gasoline, too. Hydrogen has storage, handling, and shit, creation issues. This is why we pay engineers and materials scientists so much.

No one really knows what the future may bring, but writing off hydrogen for the usual bullet point reasons is silly - there's a lot of potential here. Especially if this CO2 emissions thing becomes mainstream.
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