10 Year Transportation Plan

[red-paladin]

Sad that half the stuff in this plan is just taking care of existing infrastructure.
If my 10 year plan was to sweep the floor, paint the house, put up and take down the Christmas lights, and create a business case for maybe later putting in a hot tub... that would not be very impressive either.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Sad that half the stuff in this plan is just taking care of existing infrastructure.

The good news is that we are, in fact, maintaining that infrastructure. Far better than the situation in the US or Quebec where bridges are literally falling down due to shoddy construction or lack of maintenance.

[dpogue]

It's also worth remembering that the stuff outline in this plan is by no means guaranteed.

The 2008 plan promised Evergreen Line by 2014, as well as a Broadway line to UBC and a Surrey extension by 2020.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

If my 10 year plan was to sweep the floor, paint the house, put up and take down the Christmas lights, and create a business case for maybe later putting in a hot tub... that would not be very impressive either.

[The_Henry_Man]

I hope that one of the projects to widen the highways and capacity in the Lower Mainland include the widening of Hwy 91 in Richmond from 4 to 6 lanes. In fact, it needs to be 6-8 lanes all the way from the Knight Street interchange to the 91/91A interchange split. There's so much truck traffic now especially from and to Nelson Road ever since that interchange was opened. Due to the slow acceleration of the container trucks and the ultra short merge lanes, traffic is now constantly backed up in that sector almost throughout the day and traffic is still slow even during the midday and in the weekends.

[SOSS]

Big on promises, weak on details. Mostly just re-announcing previous projects. Unfortunate.

[Mac Write]

Wake me up with the UBC line starts construction and the Surrey Skytrain line.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Big on promises, weak on details. Mostly just re-announcing previous projects. Unfortunate.

That was my immediate impression, too.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by dpogue

It's also worth remembering that the stuff outline in this plan is by no means guaranteed.

The 2008 plan promised Evergreen Line by 2014, as well as a Broadway line to UBC and a Surrey extension by 2020.

And they had the balls to mention they were "continuing the 2008 plan".

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I can see the highway 91 interchange, but I'd be really surprised if they did such major upgrades to the SFPR so soon. It would be tantamount to an admission that they got it wrong when they built it.

What's wrong with it? Every time I've driven on it it's been smooth sailing. Hardly any traffic on it in either direction, and I've driven the entire thing multiple times. It's amazing for getting from New West to Tsawwassen! Is it just the traffic lights that people have issues with?

[faston]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

It's amazing for getting from New West to Tsawwassen!

I just drove from New West to Tsawwassen 2 weekends ago. I took the Queensboro/East West Connector/Hwy 99 route. When I saw your comment, I looked up this road and see how it would have been better. I assume there is an exit on the other side of the Alex Fraser to get onto this new road?

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by faston

I just drove from New West to Tsawwassen 2 weekends ago. I took the Queensboro/East West Connector/Hwy 99 route. When I saw your comment, I looked up this road and see how it would have been better. I assume there is an exit on the other side of the Alex Fraser to get onto this new road?

Yes. You take the first exit off the Bridge. You take the ramp that used to take you to River Road (it still does, but the SFPR comes first). Hang a left and the SFPR will take you directly to Tsawwassen. Once you are on the SFPR there is only 1 light between Nordel and 56 St.

But...

Depending on where you are in New West, there is a better way. Take the Pattullo, exit onto Scott Road, then turn right onto Old Yale Road and quickly left onto SFPR. The drive between the Pattullo and Alex Fraser is spectacular. It is where all the heavy engineering went on. The road is split level and hugs the river for a stretch. Only 2 lights between Old Yale and 56 St.

That said, the SFPR could really use an interchange at Nordel/91 connector. It is the only place it slows down horribly and the intersection is somewhat unsafe. I hope the interchange is in this plan, the preloading is already in place.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Yes. You take the first exit off the Bridge. You take the ramp that used to take you to River Road (it still does, but the SFPR comes first). Hang a left and the SFPR will take you directly to Tsawwassen. Once you are on the SFPR there is only 1 light between Nordel and 56 St.

But...

Depending on where you are in New West, there is a better way. Take the Pattullo, exit onto Scott Road, then turn right onto Old Yale Road and quickly left onto SFPR. The drive between the Pattullo and Alex Fraser is spectacular. It is where all the heavy engineering went on. The road is split level and hugs the river for a stretch. Only 2 lights between Old Yale and 56 St.

Yes, that's the route I take. Well, I keep going down King George, turning left on Bridgeview/128th, because I got into the habit of going that way when I took the SFPR out to Langley all the time, and I haven't broken that habit yet.

And you really need to watch out for the stretch between the Pattullo and the Alex Fraser. The limit's 80kph, but it's really easy to go at least 100. I almost got nailed on a radar trap along that stretch, but luckily they got the driver ahead of me!

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by The_Henry_Man

I hope that one of the projects to widen the highways and capacity in the Lower Mainland include the widening of Hwy 91 in Richmond from 4 to 6 lanes. In fact, it needs to be 6-8 lanes all the way from the Knight Street interchange to the 91/91A interchange split. There's so much truck traffic now especially from and to Nelson Road ever since that interchange was opened. Due to the slow acceleration of the container trucks and the ultra short merge lanes, traffic is now constantly backed up in that sector almost throughout the day and traffic is still slow even during the midday and in the weekends.

Where would that Vancouver bound traffic go? Same to be said for the new GMB project.

[officedweller]

He's not talking only about Vancouver-bound traffic.
The truck traffic he's talking about is Fraser Port traffic and trucks accessing the light industrial lands in east Richmond.
That's where the Nelson Rd interchange was built a few years ago (at the S curve).

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Where would that Vancouver bound traffic go? Same to be said for the new GMB project.

You could run 3+3 lanes between Knight Street and the 91/91A interchange pretty easily. At the 91/91A interchange it is already 3 lanes EB, you you just extend that back west. The on ramp from Knight Street would become the new lane instead of merging.

For Westboud, you would have the new lane become the exit lane onto Knight. Knight can handle the tiny increase in flow that would cause, and the 2 lanes over Knight usually thin out because of the people exiting at Knight and 6 road.

It needs that extra lane now because the trucks that merge after the S curve really slow down traffic, and not just because of merging, but because there is some a-hole truck driver that really wants to merge then pass the truck infront of him. Having 3 lanes would really cut down on the truck passing truck blocking that happens there.

[The_Henry_Man]

^ And don't forget that even during early afternoons (starting at around 1:45-2pm) on Mon-Fri, there's huge backups from east of No.6 all the way to the merge lanes from Hwy 99 interchange due to the huge bottleneck of multiple on-ramp lanes merging into one through the interchanges with Hwy 99, Knight St and No. 6. In fact, the moment you're on the overpass on Hwy 99 over Knight St, if you look far enough into Hwy 91 beyond No.6 Rd, you see a much higher density of traffic east of No.6 all the way to the Westminster Hwy interchange. When the 2 EB lanes opens up to 3 EB lanes as it approaches Westminster Hhy interchange, the traffic really thins out and the flow is much much better. Same thing with WB traffic right after No.6 Rd interchange. The traffic slows down to 60-70km/h even during non-rush hour times at Nelson Rd interchange and that continues all the way to No.6 Rd interchange, which the traffic then flows much better afterwards.

Hwy 91 all the way from Knight Street to Westminster Hwy exits needs to be 6 lanes MINIMUM with a few sections of 8 lanes in total. The 6 laning should start at the EB on-ramp lanes from Hwy 99. This would eliminate forced weaving into the traffic as it approaches the Knight Street interchange. Then the EB on-ramp lane from SB Knight Street would be dramatically extended, and separated from the other 3 EB lanes until it is merged with the EB on-ramp from No. 6 Rd. This 4th EB lane can be extended until it becomes the exit lane into Nelson Rd. With WB traffic, the 3rd WB lane would start from the on-ramp from Westminster Hwy and the 4th WB lane would start from the on-ramp from Nelson that would go all the way to become the exit to No.6 Road. The 3rd WB lane that starts from Westminster Hwy would become the exit lane into Knight St. This widening to 6-8 lanes on Hwy 91 in Richmond would massively reduce multiple lane mergings and bottlenecks. If this widening becomes a reality then the speed limit should be increased from 90 to 100km/h.

The only concern I would have is whether Hwy 91 is wide enough for 6 lanes at the S-curve, especially right under the Nelson Rd overpass, as the width between the pillars of the overpass seems to be quite narrow.

Right now the entire 4-lane section of Hwy 91 from No.6 Rd to just before the Westminster Hwy interchange is one big gigantic bottleneck.

[Procrastinational]

I've never understood why 91 was built the way it was. Why is the S-Curve there? Seems like they could have built a much more gradual, less disruptive curve into the highway...

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

I can see the highway 91 interchange, but I'd be really surprised if they did such major upgrades to the SFPR so soon. It would be tantamount to an admission that they got it wrong when they built it.

Me too. Shoulder bike lanes get all kinds of crap in them - it's one of the several reasons I prefer having some sort of curb or barrier between the vehicle and bike lanes.

Yeah, but even in some of the SFPR own documents the mentioned upgrading some of the intersection to interchanges within a 10 year time frame (but again, should have just built it once from the start).

91/72 is a go for sure, but now I wonder if they will combine that project with also upgrading the 91 / SFPR connection at the 91 connector.

I also think that one of those 20 or so interchange projects in the lower mainland will be highway 17 and 56 in Tsawwassen. This again begs the question as to why is the expanded connection to that new mall being built as an intersection instead of a full interchange now.

The 99 will definitely be a route that will greatly benefit from doubling the bike lane cleaning frequency.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

I've never understood why 91 was built the way it was. Why is the S-Curve there? Seems like they could have built a much more gradual, less disruptive curve into the highway...

Likely to reduce the impact on farmland or at least number of properties being effected (aka purchased). Same thing occurred with the SFPR. It too could have been built with less curves.