LOS ANGELES | Transportation News & Discussion

[Eightball]

BRT systems are always garbage in the US anyways

[mrsmartman]

It was depressing that LA ceased the construction of heavy rail in the recent decade. LA should upgrade its light rail to rapid transit with street running.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by hughfb3

Elon creates reality. One of his goals when he started out was to create space travel at a fraction of the cost we do now. He has already created the technology to get mission launches into space at a fraction of what NASA has done by creating the first reusable rocket that can land upright after its space flight. He has made TESLA the #1 selling automaker (including all cars not just electric) in a couple well developed countries in Europe like; for instance, Norway. His vision created the relaunching of the electric car industry. Many new automakers like; Faraday Future and Lucid Automotive, were born, as well as rapid propulsion of all the big car makers to make electric vehicles. All of the major automakers had to get onto Elon's ride or risked being left behind. Now we have the BMW I8 & I3, the Nissan Leaf, the chevy Bolt & Volt, and many more.

When someone like Elon declares something, its best to prepare and get on his ride. It would behoove Los Angeles to prepare for it, because it's happening.

Elon Musk doesn't do anything but make bold statements and get lucky from time to time. He makes these sort of statements all the time and very few pan out and when they do pan out it's because other people develop them, not him. You mention TESLA for instance, but Elon Musk didn't found Tesla, he was just one of its first investors. It's was a good investment on his part for sure, but not a good idea because it wasn't his idea at all. Musk didn't found PayPal either which is another misconception, his company simply merged with them.

[hughfb3]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

Elon Musk doesn't do anything but make bold statements and get lucky from time to time. He makes these sort of statements all the time and very few pan out and when they do pan out it's because other people develop them, not him. You mention TESLA for instance, but Elon Musk didn't found Tesla, he was just one of its first investors. It's was a good investment on his part for sure, but not a good idea because it wasn't his idea at all. Musk didn't found PayPal either which is another misconception, his company simply merged with them.

Everything you say is absolutely true; the way we are interpreting it is the distinction. You mentioned the companies that he may not have initially been a founder of, and its all true. You didn't mention SpaceX though; the biggest one of all. With SpaceX he is listed as the sole founder; and out of all of the accomplishments, SpaceX going to space is THE BIGGEST. If going to space and returning with a rocket that lands right side up is lucky; something neither NASA, or any other country has yet to do, then his luck must be seriously real...!! sure there are mistakes along the way and sure Elon may not be the engineer on record for everything. What he does know how to do is create or align himself with a vision and create the team that can manifest it. And if as you say Elon says bold stuff and gets lucky from time to time, then I want to be on that side of history and I want LA Metro to be as well.

History tells us that you can ask any serious inventor, how many times they may have failed at something. They will tell you hundreds if not thousands. They eventually prevailed to create that ONE invention that changed humanity. There is a context in our current culture of instant gratification that creates an air of fear in our society that says when one fails, one is a failure. What we are currently failing to see lately is the patience, attention, and tonacity it takes to see things through and allow people that space to play and discover without labeling them a failure.

I brought up Elon to bring to light the possibility in studying all rail corridors in advance that would need to be tunneled so we can be prepared for the advancement in tech. Either way, it would still serve us to prepare the Environmental studies on all corridors ahead of time and not corridor by corridor. Phil Washington CEO of metro has already started this proces by creating and expanding the list of "shovel ready projects" to have them ready as soon as funds become available or if new funds become available. I want to bring to light the "tunnel ready projects" for if when the advancement happens. If you get this message; then it's for you. If not, then it's okay for you to have your view. You are right within your view and it's great for the world to have differing views; the colors are what make the world beautiful and dynamic, but please bypass this message by not replying. This message is for the people who can align with the vision Elon has stated about creating a 3D transportation system with tunnels, who want to play with the idea, and for those who might know someone in Metro to have them see the vision so we can create a great and huge rail system. I am on this forum because it is fun for me. It's my opportunity to be a kid again in an adult world and play with the "what if's" and the "won't it be great when's..." and because I love where LA is at right now. I desire calling those people forth. Thank you for reading

[ChargerCarl]

Originally Posted by Eightball

BRT systems are always garbage in the US anyways

Yeah I'm not a fan of them. Alon Levy has written about how they're almost never worth it in the US as we can usually build light rail for only a little more.

[ChargerCarl]

Also can we stop talking about Musk? Dude doesn't understand anything about transit in the US. His new foray into tunneling technology is just a big red herring; the reason tunneling is so expensive in the US has nothing to do with technology or engineering. Musk thinks everything is an engineering problem, but when it comes to transit the engineering is pretty much NEVER the issue. It's always planning and administration.

[hughfb3]

Tunneling is actually THE BIG conversation right now and has been. Most recently with the expo line. Damion Goodman and friends in Crenshaw and Cheviot hills were suing and almost got the Expo line construction authority to stop amidst construction because of the desire for tunneling. The compromise was the farmdale station being added. I didnt agree on how they went about it, but the desire remains.

Take a look at what metro is planning for the gold line east side. The original plan in the 90's was to have the red line extend to Whittier down the spine of Whittier blvd. This was when labor costs were a fraction of what they are now. Now we are having the gold line shoot way out of the way and off course by going down the less travelled Washington bl. The gold line should IMO go straight down the 60 and that's all. The big cost with tunneling is time and labor; which translates into more administrative costs, people working for years, increases in wages and salaries etc.

Metro plans to construct both routes and they are deciding which one should go first. The question is... if there is going to be a break through in efficiency in tunneling, should we settle for the Whittier Gold line or go for the better option of the red line extending to Whittier along Whittier blvd. Should we plan for it now or settle for the interim? Should we start with the 60 alignment while we wait on the Whittier alignment or go with Whittier now?



--OR--

[ChargerCarl]

Our peer countries tunnel for a fraction of the cost that we do. It has nothing to do with technology.

[Car(e)-Free LA]

I think we should build the 60 alignment (all the way to Rio Hondo College) and delay Whittier (because then we can maybe get Whittier HRT or a Universal City-Glendale-Eagle Rock-Pasadena-East LA-Whittier line, like this: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1l6...wM&usp=sharing

[dabcom]

Originally Posted by Eightball

BRT systems are always garbage in the US anyways

Not in Cleveland.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

Also can we stop talking about Musk? Dude doesn't understand anything about transit in the US. His new foray into tunneling technology is just a big red herring; the reason tunneling is so expensive in the US has nothing to do with technology or engineering. Musk thinks everything is an engineering problem, but when it comes to transit the engineering is pretty much NEVER the issue. It's always planning and administration.

There was a great example of this in the recent announcement of the Port Authority Capital Plan.

"Authority officials rebuffed a last minute request from New York officials including Mayor Bill DiBlasio and Congressman Jerrold Nadler, who asked for a longer, more comprehensive "tiered" environmental study before work begins on a new bus terminal. Port Authority officials said that would add $1 billion to the projected $7.5 billion to $10 billion terminal cost."

http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf/..._extensio.html

Just let that sink in for a second. The difference in cost between the normal Environmental Study and the more serious Environmental Study is a BILLION dollars. This isn't a study to build an oil pipeline through virgin rainforest filled with endangered species either, its a study to replace a bus station filled with rats and homeless people. Exactly what Environment is even being disturbed here? I bet if we looked through the cost of that $10 Billion project only about $2 Billion are for actual construction.

[ardecila]

^ I bet that extra $1B comes from cost escalation over time - the longer EIS process delays the start of construction and therefore increases project cost through inflation and changes in input costs (materials, labor). It's not that the study itself costs $1B.

If the extended EIS process adds two years - and it might take that long to gather all the needed data - then Port Authority officials are projecting a 10% increase in cost as a result of the delayed timeline. The cost basis here is ridiculous but the escalation of 10% over two years doesn't seem crazy.

Side note: this is all kabuki because NY officials don't want the bus terminal in Manhattan while NJ officials do.

[dennis1]

Metrolink needs much more frequent service.

[Swede]

Originally Posted by dennis1

Metrolink needs much more frequent service.

Isn't that already the plan? When the Union Station re-build is done it'll be a through-tracked station and Metrolink can run trains more frequently and the trains will be run from branches on one side of town via Union Station to branches on the other.
right?

[ChargerCarl]

I don't know of any plan that electrifies metrolink though, which is what it really needs.

[Swede]

Much of the tracks are owned by the freight railways, right? Hard to get electrification done if so.

[phoenixboi08]

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

I don't know of any plan that electrifies metrolink though, which is what it really needs.

There were some murmurs that CAHSRA would pursue a similar arrangement with Metrolink as with CalTrain - although, I haven't heard very much on that for a few years. It might have just been a preliminary idea (or abandoned as the route alternatives between Palmdale/Burbank shifted), because I think they're now relying on the UP ROW (mostly along the River) to get through/from Burbank to DTLA.

[NSMP]

CAHSR pitched the same blended electrified service in LA as on the peninsula. Metrolink's chair at the time shut them down. The SB line is studying using DMUs, which would allow for more frequent service. Other portions of the metrolink network should do the same. The Riverside and Orange County lines have issues with freight traffic.

[Car(e)-Free LA]

Could the Riverside line be redirected from East Ontario to Rancho Cucamonga via Ontario Airport, so that it would follow the San Bernardino line west of there? It would mean the loss of stations in Industry and Downtown Pomona, but other than that, it would mean that the DTLA to Palm Springs line would be free of passenger traffic, so the Riverside Line could be increased in frequency as a branch of the San Bernardino line.

[Busy Bee]

It's absolutely maddening that the backward old-fashioned mentality of this commuter railroad leads them to being offered the opportunity to build, at least partially, a modern first-world electrified train service and the response is essentially "no thanks."

Makes me want to breath fire.