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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2009, 5:10 PM
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AlexYVR AlexYVR is offline
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Originally Posted by quobobo View Post
I hate to bring this up yet again, but.... Japan. Private bus and train operators provide a huge amount of services, and the public ones tend to charge enough to cover most of their expenses.

(standard disclaimer: of course, this requires less ass-backwards planning than we have here and there's various cultural and geographic factors at work. Still, saying that transit has never worked when run like a business is not at all correct)
Which is why I made sure to bold North American model. Put half the population of the United States onto a series of islands the size of California and, yes, transit will work.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2009, 5:23 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon View Post
I really don't feel sympathy for people who complain about tuition costs. Its there, but it makes it so you have to justify the investment in yourself and actually put consideration and a hell of a lot of hard work into a degree. If you make it a free ride you devalue the degree.
Agree 100%. I graduated from SFU business in 2002, and we were just at the beginning of the differential tuition costs. I remember Business classes getting jacked up a long with Engineering and the Sciences. What pissed me off at the time is that as a Business student we didn't have labs, expensive computers, or other equipment. It appeared purely as a cash grab "because they will pay".

Around the same time there was a UPass vote. The passes are "free", but unless something has changed, there is a cost added to every student's tuition to pay for them. So while I may only pay $50/semester for the pass, not everyone really uses them. So overall how much of a "deal" are we talking about? To me it just seems like the students who drive are subsidizing those who don't. I don't think this is the worst idea in the world, but I'm wondering how much these other schools are really losing out.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2009, 7:04 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Originally Posted by AlexYVR View Post
Which is why I made sure to bold North American model. Put half the population of the United States onto a series of islands the size of California and, yes, transit will work.
Japan's government also built the foundation and handed it over.

Highways are also tolled (and they're not cheap, driving to Seattle would probably cost $40-$50 in tolls) For many it's a financial decision. In addition, most jobs include transit costs in their wage and pay the employees to take transit.

Gas costs a bit more (~$1.25/L), though that's offset by the fact that everyone drives more efficient cars.

80% of the country is mountains, meaning rice fields, farms and people are very concentrated into the 20% that is left.

In the end, yes, population concentration is a part of it, but there are a lot of other factors helping out that make transit more desireable and affordable (or make other alternatives LESS affordable). Some of these could be implemented here.

One person mentioned that having one price for all universities would be "communist". Two comments:
  • "Communist" isn't a word that people in this country respond to with vitriol, and it isn't as effective as it is in the US at inspiring fear.
  • The word you're probably looking for is "Socialist"

Having all Uni students pay the same is more akin to the "socialist" way that health care system works in this country. For better, or for worse.

It really has nothing to do with "fairness" to students, it has more to do with decreasing maintenance costs and standardization for all universities. This issue will come up every time these things get renewed. Why not just work toward a standard for all Universities and say: take it or leave it. Uni students won't stop paying transit and you can pretty much guarantee that it will find an equilibrium a whole lot easier than individual bartering.

Of course, this will probably all have to wait until UBC has to renew its U-Pass status.
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2009, 7:00 AM
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Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
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Different universities (and colleges for that matter) have different representative bodies. Frankly I'd rather have the AMS keep its constituents in mind when negotiating my upass than having to worry about collective bargaining issues and dealing with CFS organized groups.

In short if they want to collectively bargain, let then let them, but I doubt UBC students would touch that pile of crap with a 10' pole. We can hold our own thank you.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 1, 2009, 3:30 AM
Kettles_of_Fish Kettles_of_Fish is offline
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TransLink was a lousy negotiator and the students were irrational

Although they rightfully claim to be unfairly treated, negotiation and decision analysis shows that they made irrational choices in the past. On the other hand, TransLink could have handled more effectively the emotions involved in these negotiations.

The roman orator Seneca once said “people are miserable only by comparison”; very appropriate for the students. They turn down offers of around $35, arguing that they were not the same as the price for UBC. In other words, they chose to keep paying a regular monthly fee between $73 and $136 instead of $35 a month! Apparently, they care about the UBC students more than their pockets!

On the other hand, TransLink failed to deal effectively with the emotions of the counterparts. Good negotiators know that emotional preoccupations are as important as economic concerns. These students were left out, and to hurt their feelings even more, there were understandable reasons: revenue neutrality. To date, TransLink still haven’t addressed the student’s emotions, despite the clear manifestations of outrage and indignation: “this is unfair”, “this is discriminatory”.

See the entire analysis here:
http://kettlesoffish.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/translink-versus-students-a-case-study
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  #26  
Old Posted May 1, 2009, 6:57 AM
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My U-Pass expires in 10-minutes....i'm considering getting a monthly pass tmrw, not sure which type of pass i should get.
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