HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development

About The Ads  This week the ad company used in the forum will be monitoring activity and doing some tests to identify any problems which users may be experiencing. If at any time this week you get pop-ups, redirects, etc. as a result of ads please let us know by sending an email to forum@skyscraperpage.com or post in the ads complaint thread. Thank you for your participation.


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #44981  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 2:27 AM
harryc's Avatar
harryc harryc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Oak Park, Il
Posts: 12,234
Central Market Foods - 942 W Randolph

May 1



__________________
Harry C --- Chicago rep for SkyRise Cities ---- My Flickr stream HRC_OakPark
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. B Franklin.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44982  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 3:15 AM
BonoboZill4's Avatar
BonoboZill4 BonoboZill4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: PingPong
Posts: 1,588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
Crawford in process of being demolished. Still think its unfortunate theyre not saving this historic elements



Oof... this one hurts
__________________
I'm here for a long time, not a good time
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44983  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 3:37 AM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,376
Yeah what a disgusting waste...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44984  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 4:46 AM
BrinChi BrinChi is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 196
Where is (was) that located?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44985  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 5:36 AM
Mister Uptempo's Avatar
Mister Uptempo Mister Uptempo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrinChi View Post
Where is (was) that located?
35th and Pulaski.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8285...7i16384!8i8192
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44986  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 2:25 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,376
Check out the last few pages of this PD document to see Lagunitas' eventual plans for a roof deck:

https://gisapps.cityofchicago.org/gi...pds/PD1367.pdf

I have no idea if this will actually end up happening, but I saw they got a PD approved and this is what was in it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44987  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 6:33 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,634
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44988  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 6:34 PM
Blahshead Blahshead is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 63
I have a general, off-topic question I thought of while looking at NEMA:

Do concrete buildings expand and contract in the winter/summer months? Can they get "potholes" or erode the way roads do?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44989  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 6:42 PM
harryc's Avatar
harryc harryc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Oak Park, Il
Posts: 12,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blahshead View Post
I have a general, off-topic question I thought of while looking at NEMA:

Do concrete buildings expand and contract in the winter/summer months? Can they get "potholes" or erode the way roads do?
Everything expands and contracts with changing temperature - concrete buildings not so much. All the recent ones I have seen have insulation - even on the slab edges, so probably even less.
Potholes are caused by cars driving over the hole repeatedly, not usually a problem in residential buildings ;-) .

Spalling - where the outer layer of concrete breaks off of the rebar IS a common occurrence, and probably a hefty special assessment. Not sure how much is due to thermal effects, and how much is do to salt+iron => Fe02, for the last 10yrs any rebar that may be exposed to salt has been vinyl coated (green in the photos).
__________________
Harry C --- Chicago rep for SkyRise Cities ---- My Flickr stream HRC_OakPark
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. B Franklin.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44990  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 6:48 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blahshead View Post
I have a general, off-topic question I thought of while looking at NEMA:

Do concrete buildings expand and contract in the winter/summer months? Can they get "potholes" or erode the way roads do?
As Harry says, spawling is a major maintenance issue with concrete structures. The issue is that, no matter how well you coat or bury rebar, iron will rust when oxygen reaches it. That wouldn't be an issue except that oxidation of iron results in it gaining two oxygen atoms which means it is actually gaining mass out of the air and more mass means it takes up more space which means it expands and eventually shatters the concrete around it.

This is fix by continually repairing any cracks or spawling that is occurring to limit the amount of oxygen reaching the rebar as much as possible.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44991  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 7:47 PM
PittsburghPA PittsburghPA is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: West Loop, Chicago
Posts: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by harryc View Post
May 1

Does anyone know why this is taking so long?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44992  
Old Posted May 8, 2019, 7:50 PM
jc5680's Avatar
jc5680 jc5680 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Chicago—West Loop
Posts: 1,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
This is fix by continually repairing any cracks or spawling that is occurring to limit the amount of oxygen reaching the rebar as much as possible.
I assume it is like any sort of preventative maintenance, where the buildings you see doing it more often save quite a bit in the long run.

The k station tower on desplains has been slowly patching and painting for a year or so now. The tower portion of skybridge went through a similar job recently and looks good.

Then I think about R+D 659 and all the noticeable cracks in large flat spans of concrete and can't help but think those folks are in a huge bill in their future
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44993  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 1:07 PM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
you know where I'll be
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
^^^ If Lightfoot is serious about perogative, this is an excellent chance to start rebuilding the bureaucracy to move away from aldermanic power and the property tax racket. Would do her well to purge the Landmark committee while she is at it and install some real professionals in relevant fields instead of former assessors and other machine stooges.

Amen
__________________
It's simple, really - try not to design or build trash.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44994  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 2:05 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by PittsburghPA View Post
Does anyone know why this is taking so long?
i brought that question up a few months ago and didnt really get a definitive answer. seems to me like theyve run out of funding or into some more serious issue, there hasnt been a crew on site since last summer
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44995  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 2:41 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
i brought that question up a few months ago and didnt really get a definitive answer. seems to me like theyve run out of funding or into some more serious issue, there hasnt been a crew on site since last summer
They put up a plywood barrier along the property line in the last day or two. Previous to that I noticed that a few had been sent out to half heartedly clean up materials they'd piled on the sidewalk.

Really whatever their problems the city should require the sidewalk returned to service while they figure shit out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44996  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 4:50 PM
Blahshead Blahshead is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 63
Thanks for the insight on the concrete everyone! I had never heard of spawling before.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44997  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 5:29 PM
HomrQT's Avatar
HomrQT HomrQT is offline
All-American City Boy
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Forest Park / Uptown, Chicago
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by harryc View Post
Everything expands and contracts with changing temperature - concrete buildings not so much. All the recent ones I have seen have insulation - even on the slab edges, so probably even less.
Potholes are caused by cars driving over the hole repeatedly, not usually a problem in residential buildings ;-) .

Spalling - where the outer layer of concrete breaks off of the rebar IS a common occurrence, and probably a hefty special assessment. Not sure how much is due to thermal effects, and how much is do to salt+iron => Fe02, for the last 10yrs any rebar that may be exposed to salt has been vinyl coated (green in the photos).
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
As Harry says, spawling is a major maintenance issue with concrete structures. The issue is that, no matter how well you coat or bury rebar, iron will rust when oxygen reaches it. That wouldn't be an issue except that oxidation of iron results in it gaining two oxygen atoms which means it is actually gaining mass out of the air and more mass means it takes up more space which means it expands and eventually shatters the concrete around it.

This is fix by continually repairing any cracks or spawling that is occurring to limit the amount of oxygen reaching the rebar as much as possible.
Why haven't companies moved to a fiberglass or basalt rebar instead to avoid these issues?
__________________
1. 111 W 57 - Manhattan, New York - SHoP Architects - Photo
2. 9 Dekalb Ave - Brooklyn, New York - SHoP Architects - Photo
3. One Chicago Square - Chicago - HPA and Goettsch Partners - Photo
4. Chicago Board of Trade - Chicago - Holabird & Root - Photo
5. Cathedral of Learning - Pittsburgh - Charles Klauder - Photo
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44998  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 8:15 PM
wierdaaron's Avatar
wierdaaron wierdaaron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,009
Anyone know what’s going on with 700 South Clark, the one story warehouse with a curb cut between the Artcraft building and Burnham Point? There’s been construction going on there, they ripped the whole front off the building and looks like they might be adding stories. Wondering if it was bought by scientology to go along with their remodel next door.



Zoned DX-12 so could become anything. Sad to lose another brick streetfront though. 1918, killed after its 100th birthday
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44999  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 8:55 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomrQT View Post
Why haven't companies moved to a fiberglass or basalt rebar instead to avoid these issues?
It likely lacks the characteristics and workability that makes steel such a good building material. In theory the coated rebar should make it more or less a moot point anyhow. Everything requires maintenance and usually lasts a long time when properly taken care of.

When you consider the general durability of reenforced concrete, it's not really a big issue. I'm looking at a building now that's been vacant since the 70s with no upkeep and a leaking roof. There is some damage from spawling, but it's all basically cosmetic flaking even after 40+ years of neglect. It's going to take next to no work to fix once someone gets at it and the materials couldn't be cheaper. There are unreenforced structures all over the place that have stood since Roman times because they've been kept up. Imagine how long a structure like Nema or a 1920s factory or atomic era poured in place structures that pushed the boundaries of engineering like Marina City can last? Assuming someone patches Marina City at least once every 50 years or so it should be able to stand virtually forever. So the biggest reason no one has replaced it is that this building system already works very very well.

There are a lot of people trained in it as well which is one of the issues older masonry buildings have had; the skills and understanding of the system are lacking.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45000  
Old Posted May 9, 2019, 8:57 PM
Jim in Chicago Jim in Chicago is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by wierdaaron View Post
Anyone know what’s going on with 700 South Clark, the one story warehouse with a curb cut between the Artcraft building and Burnham Point? There’s been construction going on there, they ripped the whole front off the building and looks like they might be adding stories. Wondering if it was bought by scientology to go along with their remodel next door.



Zoned DX-12 so could become anything. Sad to lose another brick streetfront though. 1918, killed after its 100th birthday
Not a clue and have been wondering. I think it abuts to the the planned development on LaSalle that I haven't heard much about recently. I wonder if it could be part of that.

I thought that the Scientologists were long out of the deal next door. That was planned before the economy went bust and the Scientologists began to run out of steam.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:28 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.