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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2007, 1:27 AM
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Here are some more pictures from live search maps.











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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2007, 2:55 AM
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This is no different than what you see in Phoenix, Albuquerque and much of California. Heck, even Denver and, perhaps, Salt Lake are sort-of like this. Among other reasons, the lack of trees makes it possible to build dense (no need to save trees).

It's suburban, just dense suburban.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2007, 3:17 AM
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It's really not the lack of trees, though. Not so much of a reason, anyways.

In Vegas, these residential developments are built the way they are so that the developer can maximize the profit off the land by cramming as many houses as they can get on the parcels they own without having to spend the money to go up. They cram them on tightly, because the metro area doesn't have the conveience of sprawling forever (i.e. the mountains, water, etc...) say, like a Chicago, Atlanta, Houston...It's kind of similar to why Metro Los Angeles' sprawl is built so densly.
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2007, 4:34 AM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
This is no different than what you see in Phoenix, Albuquerque and much of California. Heck, even Denver and, perhaps, Salt Lake are sort-of like this. Among other reasons, the lack of trees makes it possible to build dense (no need to save trees).

It's suburban, just dense suburban.
It's disgusting. If you are going to live in the suburbs, a yard and a landscape make it liveable, especially for families. I prefer living in the suburbs for specific personal reasons, though I'd prefer dense urban to this. Those "infill" suburbs in the LA basin aren't even this bad.

And why does it increasingly seem like you want all trees off the planet, Bond?

Last edited by Lost Island; Apr 22, 2007 at 5:49 AM.
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2007, 9:38 AM
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And why does it increasingly seem like you want all trees off the planet, Bond?
Because Coruscant has no trees, and I want Earth to look like Coruscant.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2007, 5:46 PM
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Ya looking at some more photos you are right they like to use a parking lot and a strip plaza than each store on its own.And many of the strip plaza are pulled back.

Well they build dense but like to use strip plaza and some times 2 or 3 strip plaza in a parking lot.

Well it is funny they like to use a grid-system or a modified grid-system in some areas and build very dense but lack mix use building or store-fronts and commercial strips.

At leat the old sections in Toronto suburbs have a commercial strips where by each store is on its own almost at the street.And doing it this way you use small parking lot, well a strip plaza needs a big parking lot for many stores.
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2007, 7:30 AM
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Originally Posted by James Bond Agent 007 View Post
Because Coruscant has no trees, and I want Earth to look like Coruscant.
An oxygen-less Coruscant? Good luck breathing!
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2007, 12:31 AM
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An oxygen-less Coruscant? Good luck breathing!
Machines! You can build skyscrapers that breathe like trees!
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2007, 7:20 AM
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But it has a city feel not a suburb feel that is what is so strange.
In the words of Bill Lumberg: "Yeeeeeeeah, i'm going to have to go ahead and...disagree with you there."
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2007, 5:05 AM
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So because it’s low rise it can’t be urban? Doesn’t feel like a city? I think everyone in Vegas would disagree with that, especially the 550,000 people living in apartments and condos.

Our suburbs are places like Summerlin and Green Valley. They are very distinguishable from the older, more urban areas around downtown and the Strip.

There is no question most of the city is built in suburban form. It has an abundance of strip malls, is dominated by cars, and is not very walkable. But Las Vegas is not your typical suburb. Even if it is all low rise, it's packed full of condos and apartments, which gives it the feel of a city. It sure doesn’t feel like any suburb I’ve been to. Urbanity is more than just how a city is built. Vegas is way too dense and vibrant to be labeled as just a suburb.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2007, 5:22 AM
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Who said that it's not urban because it's low-rise? It's not urban because little of it is built on a human scale, and most everything is auto-oriented, period. It is what it is, and it's up the individual whether they'd like to judge it badly or favorably.

From my personal experience, yes, Vegas is like a typical suburb. It feels like an endless connection of auto-oriented subdivisions, one right after the other save for tiny parts around downtown. It doesn't matter how closely they squeeze the houses in, at the end of the day, it functions as a collection of large suburbs. Heck, much of the new city didn't come into existence until after 1990. Of course it's going to be built like a suburb.

I know you love Vegas, Vtown. I love it for its quirkyness, myself. But, that has no bearing on what it is, and I say that as a fan of the city's uniquness.
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2007, 3:40 PM
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So because it’s low rise it can’t be urban? Doesn’t feel like a city? I think everyone in Vegas would disagree with that, especially the 550,000 people living in apartments and condos.

Our suburbs are places like Summerlin and Green Valley. They are very distinguishable from the older, more urban areas around downtown and the Strip.

There is no question most of the city is built in suburban form. It has an abundance of strip malls, is dominated by cars, and is not very walkable. But Las Vegas is not your typical suburb. Even if it is all low rise, it's packed full of condos and apartments, which gives it the feel of a city. It sure doesn’t feel like any suburb I’ve been to. Urbanity is more than just how a city is built. Vegas is way too dense and vibrant to be labeled as just a suburb.
No, the height of buildings has absolutely nothing to do with urbanity. Urbanity, at least in my mind, is all about cohesiveness, connectivity, and how the structures relate to both the street and each other. The reason that Las Vegas does not fit that description is because of what you already pointed out.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 1, 2007, 2:37 PM
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Everybody is entitled to there own opinion, and I stand by mine. It’s built as a collection of dense suburbs, but I still say it has urban neighborhoods within. Obviously we have different definitions of what is urban. That’s fine. A suburb can be walkable with buildings lining the streets, but that doesn’t automatically make it urban. What does it feel like? Where are the people? I’m not talking about the new parts of town and the countless sprawl divisions, but mainly the older parts with apartments, where you can actually walk to the store and see all kinds of different people out and about. To say it doesn’t’ feel like a city is just false. It’s just too energetic. It’s not just sleepy suburb. I’ve been around enough to realize that cities come in all different shapes and sizes, and though Vegas lacks store lined streets and old buildings, it feels like a city to me.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 2:00 AM
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Vtown, I lived with my dad in the inner-city during many summers before he moved out to the 'suburbs' in the Northwest. More percisely he lived on the Near Westside on MLK just across Spaghetti Bowl from downtown. Now, this is one of the more historic parts of the city, surrounded by many of the older hoods, and filled with apartments. We used to go to Baskin Park and many of the older areas of the west and northside before you hit North Las Vegas. While these places definitely have a different feel than the newer suburbs, they are still largely auto-oriented, walled-off subdivisions with all of the housing opening up on small cul-de-sacs with walls along the major streets. It's not pedestrian friendly, at all.

Sure, it feels different than your Summerlin's and Henderson's and Spring Valley's, but at the end of the day, I still would not feel comfortable calling it urban. Perhaps, it's more urban than the newer suburbs, but it's almost impossible for Vegas to be considered urban for the sole fact that not only did it come of age after the automobile, it came of age WAY after the invention of the automobile. Just doing some quick Census reasearch, I just found that 0.6% of Las Vegas' homes were constructed before 1940 as of the 2000 Census, and that 49% was constructed AFTER 1990! Vegas is what it is. It's a place I've enjoyed as a visitor and temporary summer resident, but that doesn't change anything about its physical build and function. That said, I'll say it feels much more urban than similar 'desert' cities like Phoenix and Albequerque.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 5:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Vtown420 View Post
Everybody is entitled to there own opinion, and I stand by mine. It’s built as a collection of dense suburbs, but I still say it has urban neighborhoods within. Obviously we have different definitions of what is urban. That’s fine. A suburb can be walkable with buildings lining the streets, but that doesn’t automatically make it urban. What does it feel like? Where are the people? I’m not talking about the new parts of town and the countless sprawl divisions, but mainly the older parts with apartments, where you can actually walk to the store and see all kinds of different people out and about. To say it doesn’t’ feel like a city is just false. It’s just too energetic. It’s not just sleepy suburb. I’ve been around enough to realize that cities come in all different shapes and sizes, and though Vegas lacks store lined streets and old buildings, it feels like a city to me.
You're certainly welcome to your point of view, but urbanity actually has a pretty specific definition and is not something that is open to one's own personal interpretation. Not everything is subjective and not every opinion is equally as valid as another.

I agree that the older parts of Las Vegas are more dense and are busier than the newer suburbs, but that isn't what makes a place urban. Those are two common components of an urban neighborhood, but those are secondary characteristics. Las Vegas lacks the primary characteristics of classic urbanity, and thus, isn't a traditionally urban city. It may be dense and bustling in parts, but that could be compared to having pepperoni and cheese without the crust. Las Vegas lacks a 'solid crust,' and cannot be considered a complete 'pizza'.

This is my point of view on it, and please, don't take this personally or as a "knock" on Las Vegas. This is merely a discussion of urbanity.
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  #36  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 5:30 AM
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Actually, to be real, a lot of suburban Summerlin (Far Westside) is actually built significantly denser than many parts of the inner city. Many would be surprised to hear that even in a booming city like Vegas, most of the development not concentrated on and around the Strip is centered in the suburbs, and that the inner city is being ignored. I can tell you from first hand account that the area I mentioned earlier where my dad lives has not seen any redevelopment, and I doubt it will anytime in the foreseeable future. There are literally huge swaths of empty land along Rancho going to the northwest, and a huge empty field on MLK, something you'd be hard pressed to find on the city's Far Westside, anymore. It's really strange in that the city is awfully spotting in places you'd expect would have been filled in. Lots of what you call "leap-frog" development.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 6:40 AM
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Actually, to be real, a lot of suburban Summerlin (Far Westside) is actually built significantly denser than many parts of the inner city. Many would be surprised to hear that even in a booming city like Vegas, most of the development not concentrated on and around the Strip is centered in the suburbs, and that the inner city is being ignored. I can tell you from first hand account that the area I mentioned earlier where my dad lives has not seen any redevelopment, and I doubt it will anytime in the foreseeable future. There are literally huge swaths of empty land along Rancho going to the northwest, and a huge empty field on MLK, something you'd be hard pressed to find on the city's Far Westside, anymore. It's really strange in that the city is awfully spotting in places you'd expect would have been filled in. Lots of what you call "leap-frog" development.
Wow, that is pretty surprising! I've only been in and around the Strip so I wasn't sure what Vegas suburbia looked liked from ground level. I guess that takes away the "pepperoni" too lol.
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  #38  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 9:48 PM
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LMich I know you understand Vegas, and I agree with most everything you say. I understand that Vegas is not urban in the traditional sense. I just get sick of hearing tourists who have never been off the Strip say it’s not a real city. And yes, the westside around MLK definitely feels more urban than the northwest or Summerlin. Btw, you might be surprised next time you come to LV. The westside is still ghetto as hell, but at least they are trying to do something with it, unlike the eastside which is falling apart. Projects have been torn down, and there’s new development along MLK, including a new middle and high school.

The only point I was trying to make is that Vegas does feel like a city, regardless of how it’s built. It’s much different than the east coast or Midwest, where you have to travel from the burbs to the city. Here, the suburbs are the city. Some burbs feel like part of the city and some don’t. Like Compton and Beverly Hills, they can be as different as night and day.
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  #39  
Old Posted May 2, 2007, 11:14 PM
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For the convenience of outside observers, "Westside" Las Vegas is a collection of historically black neighborhoods geographically in the north-central part of the valley. "Eastside" Las Vegas is more geographically accurate, and refers to the older housing stock in eastern end of the Valley which is now largely a latino area.
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  #40  
Old Posted May 3, 2007, 12:21 AM
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It’s much different than the east coast or Midwest, where you have to travel from the burbs to the city. Here, the suburbs are the city. Some burbs feel like part of the city and some don’t.
Well, then I'm not sure what we disagree on. That said it all. The suburbs are the city. Of course, because of the time each were built, the Near East and Westsides are going to feel different than your Summerlins, Spring Valleys, Centennial Hills, Hollywood, The Lakes, Spanish Trails...etc, but that doesn't mean that these older areas urban. It simply makes the inner-city areas more traditionally suburban. To tell you the truth, I like what many often refer to as Vegas' 'ghetto' hoods (I hate that word, BTW, because many of them are solidly middle class). I like the areas around mature palm-tree lined streets at the foot of Rancho in the area also bounded by Charleston, Valley View and Sahara. I even like the areas south of the Central Business District south of Charleston, and we used to do a lot of shopping at the 'ghetto' Meadows Mall, which is a decent mall.

What I will level with you on, though, is that most have no idea that Vegas exists beyond the Strip in Downtown, or even that the Strip isn't even in Vegas, and how little many of the locals even interact with these areas.

BTW, since this thread was never much about anything, anyway, I was wondering if any of you Vegans know the widening of 95 is going on through the Westside?
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