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  #12501  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 2:12 PM
ChiTownCity ChiTownCity is offline
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Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
No, no, no, no, and no. While I agree that at street-level the old design did a better job, the tower (while still overall it appears to be mostly so-so - although as someone pointed out if some type of metal cladding is used instead of painted flat concrete it may turn out much nicer), is much better than the first design. The former design was pure suburban town center redevelopment material, like some junk you'd expect to see in Des Plaines or Wheaton or pick your suburb. The fetish for bad postmodernism and/or traditionalism (or even mediocre of either) needs to stop.......there's a connection here to the conversation over on the highrise thread regarding what's wrong with the average infill design in Chicago, and why on some levels it does appear inferior to the avg in a city like Milwaukee.........always remember - Robert AM Stern is only 'good' in the sense that he's better than Lucien Lagrange (although with that being said, I do think the new Comcast tower in Philadelphia is pretty good - although not the best curtain wall ever, for sure.....anyway, I digress big time).......otherwise he's pretty much absolutely irrelevant to our time in the state of the art of architecture, folks.......

Seriously, Chicago deserves so much better than the likes of the old design (and all of the other Lagrange garbage and the old Loewenberg River North garbage and 80% of all the small-scale stuff that's gone up in the neighborhoods).....this city's design scene used to be about boldly turning the next page, not about trying to mimic yesterday or poorly 'blend-in' with neighborhood fabrics or appease the hordes of NIMBYs with pedestrian (or worse) taste in design........

Not to pick on you in particular, Chitown - yet you do have suspect taste in architecture, and unfortunately you're far from alone in that regard in this city...
well me personally, I would take bad traditionalism over bad modernism any day. But i would take good modernism over bad traditionalism also. I prefer detail over bland....

Was it the towers setback that made it feel suburban to you?
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  #12502  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 3:39 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is online now
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http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....ign-.html#more
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Environmentalists battling to save Gang's Ford Calumet Environmental Center design

Will Jeanne Gang's acclaimed but unbuilt "Best Nest" design for the Ford Calumet Environmental Center fall victim to the same "value engineering" syndrome that marred Metra's new 35th Street station?

An environmental group on Chicago's southeast side fears it will.

In a letter sent to Mayor-elect Rahm Emanuel, the group, the Calumet Park Ecological Park Association, frets that the design, which calls for a one-story glass building wrapped in a nest-like exterior (above), is in jeopardy.

"On March 15," the letter says, "Aaron Durnbaugh of the Chicago Department of the Environment informed a group...that within the next few weeks the city would start planning either a much-reduced version of Jeanne Gang's 'Best Nest,' or an entirely different design. This was a bombshell.".....
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  #12503  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 3:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiTownCity View Post
well me personally, I would take bad traditionalism over bad modernism any day. But i would take good modernism over bad traditionalism also. I prefer detail over bland....

Was it the towers setback that made it feel suburban to you?
Well-said. At least the traditional one had detailing. The new one is clearly designed primarily for cheapness.
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  #12504  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
No, no, no, no, and no. While I agree that at street-level the old design did a better job, the tower (while still overall it appears to be mostly so-so - although as someone pointed out if some type of metal cladding is used instead of painted flat concrete it may turn out much nicer), is much better than the first design. ...
To my mind at least the street level design is more important then the high rise even though it was ridiculous schlock. You can always avoid looking up but it is rather hard to avoid what is right ahead in front of you.

To bad they couldn't have partnered the new high rise with the previous street design even though it itself was only mediocre.
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  #12505  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 4:42 PM
ChiTownCity ChiTownCity is offline
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any hopes of a third redesign?
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  #12506  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2011, 7:09 PM
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I thought it was very strange just 1 or 2 weeks ago that Chicago Tonight's occasional contributor Geoffrey Baer went off and did a rare documentary on a single architect, and did it on R AM Stern. At first, I thought, why are Chicago's WTTW donors paying for this guy to jet across to NYC and galavant with this architect and his projects? On one hand, it's okay that local reporters travel the country to report back to donation-paying Chicagoans (and other viewers to whom WTTW shows are syndicated) what all is out there in the world. On the other hand, beelining for one location to talk about one guy who has virtually zero nexus with Chicago seems like it might be like kind of an egregious indulgence in his own personal curiosities. One thing is for sure; R AM Stern sure seemed like he was keen throughout his career to be in the spotlight of attention, hosting his own weekly (or was it monthly) TV show, etc.
AM Stern was awarded the Driehaus Prize for 2011. The University of Notre Dame School of Architecture awards the Driehaus Prize each year since 2003 honoring classical architecture.

The show Robert AM Stern: Presence of the Past was funded by Notre Dame. So it is far from an indulgence on Baer's part but following where the money told him to go. The question is: Will this become a yearly show paid for by ND or a one off because Stern likes the cameras?
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  #12507  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 2:45 AM
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Cool. I love the string-quartet version of Kanye.
where do u think my name came from?
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  #12508  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 4:16 AM
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,4797845.story

Adler to get shuttle? Heaven knows
Planetarium, among 21 institutions vying for 4 ships, will find out Tuesday

Adler Planetarium finds out Tuesday whether it will be the retirement home of one of NASA's four space shuttles.

Competition has been hot among 21 institutions vying for the shuttles — Discovery, Atlantis, Endeavour and Enterprise, a prototype model that was never flown in space — despite a price tag on obtaining and displaying the spacecraft that could run to $100 million.

One shoo-in appears to be the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C., which earlier was promised a shuttle by NASA.

Endeavour is scheduled to take off on its final flight April 29, and Atlantis' last flight is scheduled to launch June 28. Then NASA will shutter the fleet and the program.


At a 90-minute televised ceremony Tuesday from the Kennedy Space Center celebrating the 50th anniversary of Soviet cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin's first manned spaceflight and the 30th anniversary of the first shuttle spaceflight, NASA chief Charles Bolden will announce the institutions that will be getting the retired shuttles.

Adler will carry the broadcast live for its visitors, beginning at noon in its Universe Theater.

"We are cautiously optimistic about getting one of the shuttle vehicles," said Adler President Paul Knappenberger, who said he met with NASA officials a couple of weeks ago for a final review of the planetarium's bid.
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  #12509  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 5:38 AM
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So McCaffery already gave the go-ahead for the Chicago Velodrome, and a interim racing track and BMX track in the meantime, at the South Works site - which is now being marketed as "Lakeside" (awful, mind-bendingly generic name).

Now they've invited the Dave Matthews Band Caravan to set up at Lakeside on July 8-10. The Caravan is a music festival featuring - besides DMB - David Gray, Ray LaMontaigne, OAR, Kid Cudi, etc. It looks like it'll be pretty much a stoner-fest, but I might try to go anyway to see Gomez, Dirty Dozen Brass Band, and the Drive-By Truckers. Regardless of the audience, it will give some amazing exposure to this corner of the city and hopefully help change perceptions about the South Side, which can only be good for development.

http://www.dmbcaravan.com/chicago-lineup-2/
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  #12510  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 7:44 AM
djlx2 djlx2 is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
So McCaffery already gave the go-ahead for the Chicago Velodrome, and a interim racing track and BMX track in the meantime, at the South Works site - which is now being marketed as "Lakeside" (awful, mind-bendingly generic name).

Now they've invited the Dave Matthews Band Caravan to set up at Lakeside on July 8-10. The Caravan is a music festival featuring - besides DMB - David Gray, Ray LaMontaigne, OAR, Kid Cudi, etc. It looks like it'll be pretty much a stoner-fest, but I might try to go anyway to see Gomez, Dirty Dozen Brass Band, and the Drive-By Truckers. Regardless of the audience, it will give some amazing exposure to this corner of the city and hopefully help change perceptions about the South Side, which can only be good for development.

http://www.dmbcaravan.com/chicago-lineup-2/
thanks for the news, ardecila. I haven't been back to chicago in awhile, but it definitely needs a velodrome. The lakeside festival sounds like it would be great, since god knows chicago loves dave.

awesome avatar, btw! it has reminded me to re-read one of my long-favorite novels.
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  #12511  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 2:09 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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I wish they would just call South Works "South Works" instead of "Lakeside" or some other blandass suburban name based on whatever they tore down to build the subdivision. (Yes, I understand the irony of this statement)


What time is the space shuttle announcement on?
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  #12512  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 2:26 PM
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I heard noon.
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  #12513  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 5:32 PM
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No shuttle for Chicago.
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  #12514  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 6:39 PM
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^ Boo. .
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  #12515  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 7:56 PM
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^^^So the Eastern seaboard gets 3 shuttles, the west coast 1; the center of the country diddly squat.

Nonsense.


Of the 3 on the Eastern Seaboard in one sense I actually think the one in Manhattan makes the least sense. They are moving the one already at the Smithsonian in DC to NY; putting another out near Dulles; and the third goes to Orlando.

At least Orlando has the connection, via proximity to cape canaveral.

This suck I was really hoping adler got this.
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  #12516  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lawfin View Post
...
At least Orlando has the connection, via proximity to cape canaveral.
...
"connection" - ironic choice of words, considering Florida rejected rail funding and yet is still rewarded with a tourist draw. Stupid is the word I'd use.
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  #12517  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 9:28 PM
aic4ever aic4ever is offline
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"connection" - ironic choice of words, considering Florida rejected rail funding and yet is still rewarded with a tourist draw. Stupid is the word I'd use.
That's because rail funding is a joke. There isn't a public train system functioning in this country that isn't broke or worse, and "high speed" will never be economically viable anywhere, much as many people would like to dream it into existence. Why would they want build a new line that nobody will use?

In any case, I don't see how Adler would have rounded up $100 million for this. They still don't have their $10 million projector.
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  #12518  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 10:19 PM
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Not to get too off topic, but many high-speed systems overseas and in the US do objectively turn an operational profit...

Acela made $46.8 million last year, which helped cover the losses incurred by Amtrak's other services. That's because the costs to operate a high-speed train aren't markedly higher than the costs of a slower train, but the demand is much higher because of the faster travel time.

Hell, even the Hiawatha turned a profit - but much smaller at $300,000 for FY2010.

Amtrak FY2010 Performance Report
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Last edited by ardecila; Apr 12, 2011 at 10:32 PM.
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  #12519  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 10:39 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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^^^ Can you imagine the profit Hiawatha would turn as a full HSR that gets you from Milwaukee to Chicago in under 45 min? Can you imagine the profit it will turn if Milwaukee ever gets its light rail projects built and has a reasonable mass transit system connecting to its HSR terminal?
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  #12520  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2011, 11:04 PM
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Hell, even the Hiawatha turned a profit - but much smaller at $300,000 for FY2010.
I'm honestly surprised--though I'm a frequent rider and know it's a popular service, I just assumed fares were heavily subsidized by Wisconsin and Illinois.

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^^^ Can you imagine the profit Hiawatha would turn as a full HSR that gets you from Milwaukee to Chicago in under 45 min? Can you imagine the profit it will turn if Milwaukee ever gets its light rail projects built and has a reasonable mass transit system connecting to its HSR terminal?
A few years ago I would have agreed with you about Milwaukee needing light rail, but after years of Walker at helm of the county I'd say that Milwaukee really needs to beef up its ordinary bus service first--Milwaukee's one of the few cities where transit mode share actually shrunk in the last decade. I hope the current streetcar plan dies away--it wouldn't do much for mobility, and if you factor in wait time it's scarcely quicker than walking (Milwaukee may have lost its $91.5 million earmark as well--a lot of the recent budget cuts were from transportation earmarks that have been sitting around with no local match, and Milwaukee's been sitting around arguing over what to do with its money since the early 1990's).

Milwaukee Intermodal's actually very close to a lot of downtown attractions, but it suffers from the presence of I-794 to the north and a poor pedestrian environment along St. Paul Avenue. Milwaukee's periodically looked into tearing down I-794 and originally was slated to be demolished instead of Park East, which was deemed less essential to traffic circulation and had the benefit of never-having-been finished anyway. Given the Hoan Bridge's precarious condition, though, the city's been looking into alternative north-south circulation ideas, so it's possible that demolition will come up again.

Along St. Paul, the most difficult thing is the looming, Brutalist post office. In the old downtown plan there was a proposal to get rid of it and replace it with some kind of galleria-type complex. When looking this up I found that Milwaukee's put out a new plan recently, which fortunately gets rid of the atrocious-looking galleria and hopes to turn St. Paul from this into this (from the Milwaukee Depart of City Planning via Third Coast Digest):

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