CHICAGO | General Developments - Page 689

the urban politician · #**13761** Posted **Oct 30, 2011, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitledreality

(which made it seem as if there was a great plethora of cheap properties on the North Side)

^ There is.

There is plenty of cheap stuff on Chicago's north side.

Obviously, by "north side" I am including areas west of the Kennedy

the urban politician · #**13762** Posted **Oct 30, 2011, 8:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

I recall that a few people on here had maintained an irrational optimism about North/Clybourn

^ There is nothing irrational about the optimism. Earlier development was of the suburban supercenter sort, but later development seemed to be heading in the right direction (North Ave Collection, a new North Ave entrace to Crate and Barrel, Apple Store, British School stuff, the proposed mixed use development on that large undeveloped site SE of the intersection, SoHo, SoHo Part II, etc).

I think things really were headed towards improvement. Until this.

Kinda kills your enthusiasm to see the city give up on what was good progress, and bend over and take it, just for a goddamn Chipotle..

Ch.G, Ch.G · #**13763** Posted **Oct 30, 2011, 9:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ There is nothing irrational about the optimism. Earlier development was of the suburban supercenter sort, but later development seemed to be heading in the right direction (North Ave Collection, a new North Ave entrace to Crate and Barrel, Apple Store, British School stuff, the proposed mixed use development on that large undeveloped site SE of the intersection, SoHo, SoHo Part II, etc).

I think things really were headed towards improvement. Until this.

Kinda kills your enthusiasm to see the city give up on what was good progress, and bend over and take it, just for a goddamn Chipotle..

This is precisely what I mean by irrational optimism. North Avenue Collection—the most significant development you listed (in terms of scale) on the main commercial drag—is a glorified parking garage that simply encourages more automobile traffic. It doesn't really matter what's going up on the periphery (e.g., SoNo, British School) if the city is still allowing that kind of anti-urban dreck to populate North.

ardecila · #**13764** Posted **Oct 30, 2011, 9:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Kinda kills your enthusiasm to see the city give up on what was good progress, and bend over and take it, just for a goddamn Chipotle..

I would gladly bend over and take it for Chipotle.

Just sayin'....

harryc · #**13765** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 12:33 AM**

the urban politician · #**13766** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 2:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

This is precisely what I mean by irrational optimism. North Avenue Collection—the most significant development you listed (in terms of scale) on the main commercial drag—is a glorified parking garage that simply encourages more automobile traffic. It doesn't really matter what's going up on the periphery (e.g., SoNo, British School) if the city is still allowing that kind of anti-urban dreck to populate North.

^ To compare North Avenue collection to a strip shopping center with acres of surface parking and to imply that one is not an improvement over the other just really baffles me.

Yes, they both have a lot of parking, and yes they both will encourage automobile traffic. But if you cannot recognize that, from the standpoint of urban design, one is not vastly superior to the other, then I guess we have nothing to discuss. Some of you here are FAR too purist in your urbanism: you HAVE to have some parking in a big box shopping district, but if you're going to do it then at least go vertical. The large surface parking lot is really what offends the pedestrian environment the most.

denizen467 · #**13767** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 4:46 AM**

Some sort of minor addition is being made to the west bustle of One Prudential. It's on top of the Tavern at the Park portion (itself kind of a bustle to the bustle), though so far it's not evident whether it will be an entire floor or just some kind of semi-outdoor terrace overlooking Millennium Park.

It would be nice in this rental mini-boom to see some movement on the super-slender Doral / La Strada residental tower across the street.

Rizzo · #**13768** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 4:48 AM**

I would be relatively satisfied if more stuff over there was similar to North Ave Collection. As much as I'd like that area to be a true urban neighborhood, I know that's a longshot. I think for some time we knew North Ave would be built to a design where suburbs and city meet halfway. But this new development is nothing like that. More parking needs to be shared. The North Ave Collection garage rarely fills completely.

harryc · #**13769** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 1:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467

Some sort of minor addition is being made to the west bustle of One Prudential. It's on top of the Tavern at the Park portion (itself kind of a bustle to the bustle), though so far it's not evident whether it will be an entire floor or just some kind of semi-outdoor terrace overlooking Millennium Park.

It would be nice in this rental mini-boom to see some movement on the super-slender Doral / La Strada residental tower across the street.

An interesting detail of the old structure as the work started on Sept 16.

Nowhereman1280 · #**13770** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 2:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitledreality

I was just using the Western numbers to further expand the search area South. Given you claimed North Side, I feel the search area of anything East of the Kennedy (providing only 4 properties) was more than adequate to question your statement (which made it seem as if there was a great plethora of cheap properties on the North Side)

Don't forget those are list prices, not sale prices, and also don't forget that a huge number of multi-family properties are sold without even going to market so they would never show up on Redfin. Also, how far north are you searching? I'm pretty sure great deals can be had all over West Ridge and the other far north extremes of the city. Also, since when does the "North Side" end at the Kennedy? I think most people consider the "Northwest Side" to be a subset of the North side and I know for a fact that there are 2 flats all over Logan Square and Avondale (and some in Jefferson Park) that are selling for about $100,000.

SamInTheLoop · #**13771** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 2:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyguy

As everyone else seems to be, I'm also sickened by this, and flabbergasted that this is technically even allowed to be built anywhere within 5 mi. of state and madison. Hell, make that at least 10 for anywhere near the lakefront and major transit corridors. But I guess this is what you get when you have a planning department and planning commission that are by design institutionally impotent if not non-existent entirely. When they're merely pure puppets of politicians.............we know what really needs to change...

Chicagoguy · #**13772** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 3:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ To compare North Avenue collection to a strip shopping center with acres of surface parking and to imply that one is not an improvement over the other just really baffles me.

Yes, they both have a lot of parking, and yes they both will encourage automobile traffic. But if you cannot recognize that, from the standpoint of urban design, one is not vastly superior to the other, then I guess we have nothing to discuss. Some of you here are FAR too purist in your urbanism: you HAVE to have some parking in a big box shopping district, but if you're going to do it then at least go vertical. The large surface parking lot is really what offends the pedestrian environment the most.

I couldn't agree with you more. This is the type of parking we should be encouraging. People are going to drive regardless. The people who live west, far north, and from the suburbs are certainly not going to be taking public transit, that is unrealistic to expect. With North Avenue Collection at least people are encouraged to park, and then walk around for hours doing their shopping. It is far better in design that all of these damn surface parking lots.

Yes it is discouraging to see parking garages so close to a major public transit stop, but until this city gets real about fixing our transit problem then parking structures are a reality. So it is much better to build up than out.

lawfin · #**13773** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

I would gladly bend over and take it for Chipotle.

Just sayin'....

OT ...irrational expectations...rant.....chipotle is god awful banal tasteless crap...a perfect metaphor for this developments architectural n0n-style

Nowhereman1280 · #**13774** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 8:08 PM**

^^^ Chipoltle is literally a burrito McDonalds.

However, they usually have much more taste than just locating in parking lot minefields. unlike their be-burgered cousins. For example, the one in Rogers Park is fairly handsome all things considered.

lawfin · #**13775** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 8:29 PM**

I was searching the thread for those crains rendering of the weed street proposal could someone with better search facility repost those please to tie into the current discussion.

found it I think:

http://www.crmproperties.com/futureProjects.html

As I feared when those new rendering were put out a few months ago on this forum...I commented that the flash animation didn't sdeem to adhere to the .pdf doc. It seems the most recent rendering posted does follow the .pdf. To Chicago's collective shame.

lawfin · #**13776** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

^^^ Chipoltle is literally a burrito McDonalds.

However, they usually have much more taste than just locating in parking lot minefields. unlike their be-burgered cousins. For example, the one in Rogers Park is fairly handsome all things considered.

That parcel was much better when it was Cheers.....the beer garden out front was great in nice weather for people watching etc. Also great stop post beach in summer.

I agree as Chipotle goes the design of that if rather inoffensive; but it was better when it was a bar....they had really good nachos and were cheap too.

untitledreality · #**13777** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 8:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Also, how far north are you searching? I'm pretty sure great deals can be had all over West Ridge and the other far north extremes of the city.

All the way North to the city limits.

Everything East and North of the Kennedy:
0 multi family listed at 100K or less
23 multi family SOLD at 100K or less over the past 12 months

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Also, since when does the "North Side" end at the Kennedy? I think most people consider the "Northwest Side" to be a subset of the North side and I know for a fact that there are 2 flats all over Logan Square and Avondale (and some in Jefferson Park) that are selling for about $100,000.

Well, considering you just called Logan Square and Avondale the Northwest Side I think you answered your own question.

...and just for comparisons sake

Avondale West of the Kennedy:
6 multi family listed at 100K or less
25 multi family SOLD at 100K or less over the past 12 months

Logan Square West of the Kennedy:
9 multi family listed at 100K or less
29 multi family SOLD at 100K or less over the past 12 months

Nowhereman1280 · #**13778** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 10:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitledreality

All the way North to the city limits.

Everything East and North of the Kennedy:
0 multi family listed at 100K or less
23 multi family SOLD at 100K or less over the past 12 months

Well, considering you just called Logan Square and Avondale the Northwest Side I think you answered your own question.

...and just for comparisons sake

Avondale West of the Kennedy:
6 multi family listed at 100K or less
25 multi family SOLD at 100K or less over the past 12 months

Logan Square West of the Kennedy:
9 multi family listed at 100K or less
29 multi family SOLD at 100K or less over the past 12 months

OK, so we are talking at least 75 sales under 100k in the past 12 months which is actually a lot of product considering the low overall volumes in the market right now. Not to mention the fact that those are only MLS listed sales that exclude the true low end of the market which is REO's that are dumped on the market by wholesalers.

ardecila · #**13779** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 10:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin

OT ...irrational expectations...rant.....chipotle is god awful banal tasteless crap...a perfect metaphor for this developments architectural n0n-style

No, no, no, no... I gladly and often go down to 18th or Blue Island for some delicious incredible carnitas or pozole, but I also love Chipotle beyond belief.

Same way I can (unironically) enjoy a High Life or a Half Acre.

Via Chicago · #**13780** Posted **Oct 31, 2011, 11:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

^^^ Chipoltle is literally a burrito McDonalds.

no way jose.

they cook the chicken, steak and pork right there on a grill, where you can see it. They chop it up with knives, right there on the counter, in front of people. Then they put it in the stainless tray and it goes on the steam table.

I have, while in line, watched the dude make the rice. It's, like, rice, with some veggies in it. Dude puts some salt and pepper in it, a leafy herb and then squeezes a couple of limes in it. That's it.

I garauntee it, they make their own salsa and gucamole there, pretty much the way you would.

And, you can have as much, or as little rice as you want. Or no beans. Whatever you want. They make the danged thing right in front of you.

It is miles and miles away from McDonalds. Its not authentic Mexican food either, but I dont think it ever claimed to be.

And just to prove Im not getting too far OT, they are also willing to go into and rehab existing buildings for their spaces. Im thinking specifically of the location at Lake and Franklin which is an an historic/over 100 year old building, and they fit right in. There are others. I seriously doubt a MCD or Wendys or whatever else would go to all the trouble and expense, not to mention deal with the non-custom floorplan. Furthermore, they mix up their designs for each location; they all have the similar industrial theme, sure, but they're all a little different and feature local artwork and at least look like someone gave a partial damn while designing it.