HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Proposals

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #101  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2018, 12:27 AM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
Abiogenesis
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 21,531
As Brooklyn Towers Reach for the Sky, How Big Is Too Big?

The proposed project for 80 Flatbush would provide housing and schools, but critics point to 'unprecedented scale' near row houses

Quote:
Corner, the question keeps coming up: how big is too big? And the follow-up question is never far behind: can developers, community members and public officials reach a happy medium on that issue?

A new test case for both questions is at hand: 80 Flatbush, a two-tower, five-building project containing two schools, office space, and apartments priced at both market and affordable rates. The complex, with towers reaching 74 and 38 stories, is proposed for an irregular block not far from Brooklyn Academy of Music and the Atlantic Terminal Mall (and its transit hub below).

At that spot, 80 Flatbush could serve, as the Downtown Brooklyn Partnership CEO Regina Myer has suggested, “as an exciting southern entryway to Downtown Brooklyn.” Certainly the borough has a need for all that the complex contains, from housing to schools. Alarmed neighbors, however, especially those on row-house State Street south and west of the 1.4-acre site, prize their neighborhood scale, and say the “over-loaded” plan ignores context. In protest, the Boerum Hill Association launched a petition that now has more than 900 signatures. Their slogan: “No Towers Over Brownstone Brooklyn.”

Without asking for any zoning changes, developers could put up a significant building of up to 400 feet, “as of right” in legal terms. But 80 Flatbush, with its towers rising 560 feet and 986 feet, would contain 1.1 million sq. ft. of floor area, or 2.8 times the as-of-right scenario. A rezoning would nearly triple the site’s Floor Area Ratio (FAR), which assesses bulk as a multiple of the lot size, from 6.5 to 18, what critics have called “unprecedented” development density in their neighborhood. So 80 Flatbush poses enduring questions about the benefits and burdens of building big.

The debate is about to begin in earnest. Approval—or modification of the plan—will emerge in the city’s Uniform Land Use Review Procedure (ULURP), which launched Feb. 26 with the issuance of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (EIS). Public hearings before Brooklyn Community Board 2 and Borough President Eric Adams will presage votes by the City Planning Commission and City Council.

“This is an exceedingly complicated project,” Council Member Stephen Levin, whose district contains the site, told The Bridge, “because it’s trying to do a lot on a very small portion of land” in what he calls a “transitional block,” including but not limited to Downtown Brooklyn.

[...]
============================
https://thebridgebk.com/brooklyn-tow...w-big-too-big/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #102  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 1:45 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 36,181
Quote:
Without asking for any zoning changes, developers could put up a significant building of up to 400 feet, “as of right” in legal terms. But 80 Flatbush, with its towers rising 560 feet and 986 feet, would contain 1.1 million sq. ft. of floor area, or 2.8 times the as-of-right scenario.

Whether it's 400 ft or 800 ft, it would still tower over brownstones. In fact, if the original proposal were just for 800 ft, they would be trying to fight that. At some point, you just have to say it is what it is, and put your energies elsewhere. But the NIMBYs never get that.
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #103  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 1:49 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 371
It’s absurd that NIMBYs are calling this “Brownstone Brooklyn.” This isn’t Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights. Until recently, it was a horrible, blighted stretch of the hood, filled with junk stores and thugs. The residents should be grAteful to have these new towers replace the existing roach motels.

I would oppose this project if it were proposed for the middle of Montague Street, but it’s appropriate for Flatbush Avenue.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #104  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2018, 8:41 PM
antinimby antinimby is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In syndication
Posts: 2,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
It’s absurd that NIMBYs are calling this “Brownstone Brooklyn.” This isn’t Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights. Until recently, it was a horrible, blighted stretch of the hood, filled with junk stores and thugs. The residents should be grAteful to have these new towers replace the existing roach motels.

I would oppose this project if it were proposed for the middle of Montague Street, but it’s appropriate for Flatbush Avenue.
Agreed, now send an email or letter out to Brooklyn CB 2 (http://www.brooklyn-usa.org/community-boards/), BP Eric Adams (no email but his office address is at the bottom of this page: http://www.brooklyn-usa.org/eric-adams-bio/), Councilman Stephen Levin (slevin@council.nyc.gov) and the City Planning Commission (https://a002-irm.nyc.gov/EventRegist...9-87b1bfa975ef) saying what you just said.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #105  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 12:26 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
Abiogenesis
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 21,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
It’s absurd that NIMBYs are calling this “Brownstone Brooklyn.” This isn’t Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights. Until recently, it was a horrible, blighted stretch of the hood, filled with junk stores and thugs. The residents should be grAteful to have these new towers replace the existing roach motels.
I agree. The transformation of the Flatbush corridor is for the best. People do forget the crappy nature of the area not too long ago before the great boom during Bloomberg and now continued with DeBlasio. DoBro as a whole has become safer, livelier, and almost an extension of Manhattan.

Area wise, its a small portion of Brooklyn. I think these NIMBYS feel that it will kill the culture of the borough, but they always tend to use the whole borough or "Brooklyn" as a scapegoat when in reality, its a small area thats in the development cross hairs (DoBro). Its like equating the fall of "Queens" because LIC and Flushing are booming.

They, the vile NIMBY scum, pulled the same crap with Atlantic Yards aka Pacific Park. The battle is nowhere near as fierce as it was with that one, but this will blow over. Its just huffing and puffing. This will rise in time, most likely next cycle.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #106  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 12:30 PM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 371
When my wife and I would go to BAM fifteen years ago, I felt like I was in the Bonfire of the Vanities. It was horrible.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #107  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2018, 6:28 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 36,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
When my wife and I would go to BAM fifteen years ago, I felt like I was in the Bonfire of the Vanities. It was horrible.
Then you should have stayed home.



Forest City really started the process of building more towers in DT Brooklyn, and there is a lengthy write up here about their groundwork over the years. Of course, it's written by a onetime enemy.



https://thebridgebk.com/forest-city-...n-the-way-out/

Forest City in Brooklyn: a Real Estate Pioneer on the Way Out?
The developer behind MetroTech and Barclays Center changed the borough's landscape. An in-depth look at a towering yet sometimes controversial legacy


By NORMAN ODER
March 20, 2018


Quote:
Back in 1990, Ratner was asked, upon announcing what would be the borough’s second tallest tower, if he’d considered breaking the height record. ”We’re not into that,” he said. By 2003, though, Gehry’s “Miss Brooklyn” was to dwarf the 512-foot Williamsburgh Savings Bank. In a nod to public concern, Forest City, upon the 2006 Atlantic Yards approval, agreed to lower Gehry’s tower one foot below the bank, without reducing the bulk.

Today, such a gesture would seem quaint. New Downtown Brooklyn edifices dwarf the bank, renamed One Hanson Place, its offices turned into condos. Across the street, an Apple Store and Whole Foods 365 recently opened in 300 Ashland, a Two Trees tower. The new owner of the Atlantic Terminal and Atlantic Center malls plans to double the rents, adding upscale tenants.

Meanwhile, Greenland Forest City aims to move the bulk of the unbuilt “Miss Brooklyn” across Flatbush Avenue to a site currently housing a Modell’s and P.C. Richards, envisioning a two-tower complex nearly 800 feet tall. The project, yet to be approved, has been suggested for Amazon’s second headquarters and would contain high-end retail—a distinct contrast from Ratner’s early mall strategy. Up Flatbush Avenue, near Junior’s Restaurant, a supertall tower, some 1,066 feet, is rising. Even closer, just two blocks from the Barclays Center, developer Alloy has proposed 80 Flatbush, a huge two-tower project stretching 986 feet. Seeking permission to build what some call “unprecedented” density near row houses, Alloy promises schools, cultural space, and affordable housing. Such large projects—and com
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #108  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 6:50 AM
Skyrocket27 Skyrocket27 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 5
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #109  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 10:25 AM
JMKeynes's Avatar
JMKeynes JMKeynes is offline
In the long run...
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SW3
Posts: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Then you should have stayed home.
I don’t let “gangstas” dictate my life. In any event, I’m pleased that this area is being reclaimed by civilized members of society.
__________________
"Men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #110  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 11:10 AM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
Abiogenesis
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 21,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
I don’t let “gangstas” dictate my life. In any event, I’m pleased that this area is being reclaimed by civilized members of society.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #111  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2018, 11:19 AM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
Abiogenesis
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 21,531
On a side note, we also have the potential Red Hook redevelopment which in theory, can add 40,000+ units.

Even amidst all of the construction, I still think the city is not keeping pace with the demand. The pace needs to increase. But anyways, here's to hoping!


Credit: bisnow

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #112  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2018, 1:09 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 36,181
https://bklyner.com/too-tall-too-clo...f-80-flatbush/

‘Too Tall! Too Close! Too Much!,’ Say Opponents Of 80 Flatbush



The line waiting to get into the CB2 ULURP Public Hearing for 80 Flatbush Rezoning (Photo: Pamela Wong/BKLYNER)






By Pamela Wong
March 29, 2018


Quote:
Community Board 2 held the first ULURP (Uniform Land Use Review Procedure) public hearing for Alloy Development’s 80 Flatbush project Wednesday evening at St. Francis College.

Founders Auditorium was packed as supporters and opponents of the project came in droves to get their voices heard. Trying to get the long line of attendees inside and signed in proved difficult, delaying the hearing’s start time by 25 minutes. Approximately 200 people were shut out of the meeting once the venue reached capacity.

Quote:
The floor was then opened up for public testimony, where supporters and opponents were given two minutes to voice their opinions about the project. Once the clock struck 9pm (the time the hearing was originally scheduled to end), Singletary noted that he still hadn’t gotten through half of the list of those who’d signed up to speak, so he had to cut the time limit to one minute in an effort to hear from everyone.

Quote:
President of Downtown Brooklyn Partnership, Regina Myer:
“On behalf of the Downtown Brooklyn Partnership, I’d like to express our strong support for the 80 Flatbush project. This project will bring critical public infrastructure to Brooklyn with two new public schools, market-rate and affordable housing, a new cultural and community facility, and Class-A office space, and the project delivers all this public benefit without the use of any city capital funds at one of the most transit-rich locations in New York City.”

“Brooklyn has seen an unprecedented residential and commercial growth over the past ten years and we need to be strategic about how and where that growth can be accommodated. The area surrounding the intersections of Flatbush, 4th, and Atlantic Avenues has been an active hub dating back to the completion of the Williamsburgh Savings Bank in 1929 with its extensive access to transit, especially along Flatbush and Atlantic Terminal, we believe 80 Flatbush is particularly appropriate.”




Quote:
Rockwell Place Community Garden, Coordinator, Ron Janoff:
“Our 38 volunteer members have voted unanimously to oppose the rezoning after learning from Alloy’s EIS [Environmental Impact Statement] that our public amenity will be irremediably damaged by the shadow of their development…. Zoning was introduced in New York City in 1960 to tame development and save sunlight for citizens. Now Brooklyn, once dead, is coming back to life but its streets are going dark. Our garden stands to be the unwitting victim of unpredictable spot rezoning spinning out of control. We were here when no one was here. We want to be here for generations to come…. We are calling on you to reject the rezoning and the Alloy proposal and Save Our Sunlight.”




Quote:
Eight-year-old Maxwell: “I dearly oppose this project that will destroy our neighborhood…. Why open an even bigger door to Brooklyn becoming midtown Manhattan?”




__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #113  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2018, 2:13 PM
Multi Multi is offline
Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: New York City
Posts: 15
Isn't the 986 foot building technically a super tall?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #114  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2018, 2:34 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
Abiogenesis
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 21,531
Yea. 300m is considered super tall status or 984 ft.

The CTBUH for example classifies it that way.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #115  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2018, 10:28 PM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 36,181
https://www.architecturalrecord.com/...-community-ire

New Tower Planned for Brooklyn Draws Community Ire




April 9, 2018
Cara Greenberg


Quote:
Emotions are running high around 80 Flatbush, a massive mixed-use complex with a 74-story tower, planned for a site near Barclays Center, practically alongside Victorian row houses where Downtown Brooklyn meets the brownstones. If things go well for its developers, the project—which also includes a 38-story structure, two new schools and two 19th century commercial buildings to be repurposed as cultural venues—will become the latest to join the relentless march of luxury high-rise towers up Flatbush Avenue, from the East River to what was for decades Brooklyn’s tallest building: the 37-story, 500-foot-tall Williamsburg Savings Bank building, which is now called 1 Hansen Place. At 1,000 feet, 80 Flatbush will dwarf the 1929 building’s beloved Art Deco clock tower.

Quote:
State Senator Velmanette Montgomery went so far as to say, “The character and spirit of our neighborhoods are dying, and 80 Flatbush is killing it,” drawing sustained cheers and applause.

Quote:
Construction has proceeded without this level of furor on other residential and office towers along Flatbush, including the 720-foot, 68-story Kohn Pederson Fox-designed Brooklyn Point, now under construction by Extell, and SHoP’s 78-story tower 9 DeKalb, a project of JDS Development Group, which will exceed 1,000 feet by its completion in 2020. Those two projects are situated on the westernmost section of Flatbush Avenue, which has long been a heavily trafficked commercial thoroughfare.

But where the diagonal avenue lines the brownstone neighborhoods of Boerum Hill and Fort Greene—where 80 Flatbush is planned—neighbors and other well-organized pioneers of gentrification are up in arms.

Quote:
“We’re all concerned about the precedent of Manhattan-style density moving to Brooklyn,” says Howard Kolins, longtime president of the BHA. “I applaud Alloy for being willing to tweak the design, but there needs to be a new paradigm for Brooklyn, not just replicating Manhattan business district zoning.” As for what the ultimate outcome regarding 80 Flatbush is likely to be, says Kolins, “That I can’t tell you.”
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #116  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 1:45 PM
The Best Forumer The Best Forumer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by TREPYE View Post
Another boxy square top that is hundreds of feet tall.
You haven't been to Houston... that's all we have here... boxes. with glass.


at least ya'll have much more variety.
__________________
The suburbs are second-rate. Cookie-cutter houses, treeless yards, mediocre schools, and more crime than you think. Do your family a favor and move closer to the city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #117  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 3:33 PM
yankeesfan1000 yankeesfan1000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: 10014
Posts: 1,524
Edit : For clarity, this is not binding. This is the first of a few votes before it goes before the City Planning Commission who's verdict is binding. Assuming I'm understanding the unending layers of bureaucracy correctly.

CB 2 Land Use Committee Votes Against Proposed Development at 80 Flatbush

"...Of the 11 members of the CB 2 Land Use Committee who were present Wednesday night at their monthly meeting, 10 voted to reject the proposal for the controversial development at 80 Flatbush Avenue. One member abstained.

Two committee members made comments after the vote last night, and they were brief. Both made clear that they felt the location of 80 Flatbush was actually in Boerum Hill, not Downtown Brooklyn. Indeed, 80 Flatbush is in Boerum Hill, as the decades-old map of the Boerum Hill Association shows.

However, for the purposes of zoning, the development is located in the Downtown Brooklyn Special District, as the Environmental Impact Statement notes.

...Borough President Eric Adams will next conduct a public hearing regarding 80 Flatbush on April 30 as part of the ULURP process but will hold his vote until CB 2 makes their final recommendation at their next general meeting on May 9."

Last edited by yankeesfan1000; Apr 20, 2018 at 4:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #118  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 2:14 AM
NYguy's Avatar
NYguy NYguy is offline
New Yorker for life
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Borough of Jersey
Posts: 36,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Edit : For clarity, this is not binding. This is the first of a few votes before it goes before the City Planning Commission who's verdict is binding. Assuming I'm understanding the unending layers of bureaucracy correctly.
Yes. Of course, the CB was never going to give its blessing. Skyscrapers will rarely get a CB's approval. The only person to watch closely is the City Council member who represents the district.


https://www.brownstoner.com/developm...ublic-hearing/

Quote:
Speaking on behalf of New York City Council Majority Leader Laurie A. Cumbo, a representative told the crowd she did not have a position at this time, which elicited jeers from the audience.
https://council.nyc.gov/district-35/
__________________
NEW YORK. World's capital.

“Office buildings are our factories – whether for tech, creative or traditional industries we must continue to grow our modern factories to create new jobs,” said United States Senator Chuck Schumer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #119  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:31 PM
chris08876's Avatar
chris08876 chris08876 is offline
Abiogenesis
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Jersey - Somerset County
Posts: 21,531
The Planning Commission will make the right choice.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > Proposals
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:14 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.