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View Poll Results: Should the B.C. government explore amalgamating Metro Vancouver's municipalities?
Yes 82 71.30%
No 33 28.70%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 8:57 AM
huenthar huenthar is offline
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We've already got Metro Van. We just need to devolve a lot more of the responsibilities from the cities to the Metro. (Eventually, perhaps, most or all of them but right now a little devolution would probably be more palatable) So many things just don't make sense to do municipally anymore (policing, garbage/recycling come to mind)
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 12:38 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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you got it !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
I'll second that one. It only makes sense. Really, outside of BC, people don't understand the intricate city boundaries that are here. Hell, I live here and I don't understand them most of the time. 1 big uni-city is the best answer.
Total agreement.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 1:05 PM
trofirhen trofirhen is offline
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Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
And looking at Surrey specifically, I would honestly think it would do better to divide that up in 3 ways but amalgamate in three separate directions.

North Delta should be combined with Whalley, Newton, Guildford, Fleetwood, and Fraser Heights into one. They are one large urban area and share alot in common (North Delta & Newton especially)

White Rock & South Surrey/Crescent Beach should be amalgamated to form the 2nd type of North Vancouver.

Langley City should merge with Cloverdale to become it's own municipality.

The geographic boundaries of the current districts and municipalities simply do not make much sense anymore.

Quick Map Idea.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...279715dcd0ef7c
This sounds like a pretty good division to me. It makes sense to have our new "metropolitan boroughs" (to coin a Toronto terminology) fit together this way, perhaps with a bit of modification here and there, not too much.

Got any ideas for the rest of the Metro area? How would you amalgamate Burnaby, PoCo, New West, Richmond, Vancouver City, the North Shore ... ?
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 3:27 PM
go_leafs_go02 go_leafs_go02 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post
This sounds like a pretty good division to me. It makes sense to have our new "metropolitan boroughs" (to coin a Toronto terminology) fit together this way, perhaps with a bit of modification here and there, not too much.

Got any ideas for the rest of the Metro area? How would you amalgamate Burnaby, PoCo, New West, Richmond, Vancouver City, the North Shore ... ?
I've only lived SoF, I don't even know the boundaries really of anything north of the fraser. I might give it a shot, but I don't have too much knowledge. Merging Vancouver with Burnaby & New West I think would be good.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 3:29 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Amalgamation won't fly in Vancouver. Greater powers for a Regional government may.

It would basically be an additional layer of government eventually.

I'm thinking specifically of the prefectural governments in Japan.

Not sure this is a good idea or not, but the poll wasn't for amalgamation, it was for exploring the idea of it.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 4:52 PM
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Oh, the irony: the ultimate no-brainer, but with about a zero chance of occuring.

Politics are too polarized for this to ever occur; there's not enough middle-ground people out there willing to accept the bigger picture.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 5:06 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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Well, it would definitely have to start slowly...

amalgamate certain services ( who REALLY cares who picks up the garbage? )

Getting West Van, Port Moody and New West on board with a regional police force would be difficult.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 6:32 PM
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Amalgamation first started out with both Abbotsford and Matsqui combining in 1995 to form Abbotsford after voters approved same via referendum in both locales.

The next obvious naturals are:

1. The City of North Vancouver and the District of North Vancouver;
2. The City of Langley and the District of Langley;

It's been talked about in those locales for years but for various reasons (lower taxes/lower debt load in one municipality compared to the other) nothing has ever come to fruition.

Coquitlam/Port Coquitlam and Pitt Meadows/Maple Ridge also seem to be naturals.

I also agree with the following post that North Delta should be combined with Surrey since they are contiguous geographically and North Delta is "a million miles away" from Tsawwassen/Ladner.

I also agree that South Surrey ("Greater White Rock") should be amalgamated with White Rock and that possibly the Cloverdale area should become part of Langley. BTW, White Rock, one of Surrey's wards back in the day, voted to split with Surrey back in 1957.

But these matters are for local municipalities to decide and not for the provincial gov't to step in as an uproar would ensue that would amount to political suicide.

Greater Victoria also has the same problem with 14(?) municipalities within it's boundary. Again, some "natural" amalgamation should also occur within that area.

Baby step local municipal amalgamations, via local referendum, is the way to go. Perhaps the provincial gov't can assist in that regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
North Delta should be combined with Whalley, Newton, Guildford, Fleetwood, and Fraser Heights into one. They are one large urban area and share alot in common (North Delta & Newton especially)

White Rock & South Surrey/Crescent Beach should be amalgamated to form the 2nd type of North Vancouver.

Langley City should merge with Cloverdale to become it's own municipality.

The geographic boundaries of the current districts and municipalities simply do not make much sense anymore.

Quick Map Idea.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...279715dcd0ef7c
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 6:46 PM
Zassk Zassk is offline
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I would love for amalgamation to happen. However, I can't get over the paranoia, and I'm ashamed to admit it.

It seems to me that Richmond gets above average services and facilities compared to some other parts of Metro Vancouver. Maybe that's my mistaken perception, or maybe it's fact. But I can only see things being worse for Richmond under an amalgamation. I doubt they would remain the same, and I can't conceive of an improvement.

I might "trust" an amalgamation of Richmond and City of Vancouver. But places like PoCo and North Van are so far away... how could a single amalgamated city council weigh concerns for such disparate areas fairly and equally?

That said, an integrated police force would be a wonderful thing.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 7:43 PM
rbostyle rbostyle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
I've only lived SoF, I don't even know the boundaries really of anything north of the fraser. I might give it a shot, but I don't have too much knowledge. Merging Vancouver with Burnaby & New West I think would be good.
It's usually a main road or body of water, so the boundaries aren't that obscure - a quick read of a few maps and you'll be all set. I.e. Boundary Rd divides Vancouver from Burnaby. Doesn't get much more obvious than that.

Part of me feels like dividing up current cities into larger cities makes little sense. Either we should pull a Calgary and just have one super city region, or subdivide it down from how it is now. For example, living in North Delta, I feel completely unattached to the rest of Delta. Similar with Cloverdale's relationship to Surrey, Deep Cove to the District of North Van, and so on. I think it would be great to have dozens of smaller, defined communities/towns - letting each define their own urban fabric, and start to get a bit more diversity in the built form of the region, and allowing the distinct culture of each area to really come through instead of just wearing the 'Surrey' or 'Delta' banner.

Again, either that or just one massive City of Vancouver consisting of the entire Metro. Those are my thoughts.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 8:05 PM
SpikePhanta SpikePhanta is offline
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I think eventually the amalgamation of vancouver with burnaby will happen once Surrey has passed Vancouver in population....

Vancouver would need to catch up and increase its population and stay competitive.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02 View Post
And looking at Surrey specifically, I would honestly think it would do better to divide that up in 3 ways but amalgamate in three separate directions.

North Delta should be combined with Whalley, Newton, Guildford, Fleetwood, and Fraser Heights into one. They are one large urban area and share alot in common (North Delta & Newton especially)

White Rock & South Surrey/Crescent Beach should be amalgamated to form the 2nd type of North Vancouver.

Langley City should merge with Cloverdale to become it's own municipality.

The geographic boundaries of the current districts and municipalities simply do not make much sense anymore.

Quick Map Idea.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...279715dcd0ef7c
I wouldn't be opposed to this. Although Surrey immediately becomes the least desirable suburb of Metro Van by a long shot. It's saving grace now is that South Surrey and Cloverdale are considered by many to be it's nicest suburban areas. On the bright side, it could accelerate the development of the city centre. With little land for more SFH, you could see Surrey take a development pattern more similar to Burnaby.

That said, I'm not in favour of regional wide amalgamation. The thing about Toronto (I've never been to Montreal) that makes amalgamation preferred is that it's suburban areas are not distinct. The suburbs are a sea of grid roads, Tim Hortons and red brick houses whether you're in Brampton, Mississauga, Scarborough etc. This is true for the areas that were amalgamated with Toronto like North York, Willowdale etc.

What's great about Metro Vancouver is for the most part every suburb is very distinct in demographics, design, culture and especially political issues. As a resident of a place like Port Moody, I've chosen an area to live that is unique in it's own way, where the lifestyle fits and most importantly, with a population of less than 30,000 I have a voice within the community that already fits my life. Should we become part of Vancouver, or even part of Coquitlam, that voice is lost, and communities will lose their distinctions over time. The last thing I want is Gregor Robertson and his bicycle loving politics to trickle out here the burbs. I live her to avoid that ridiculousness.

It's easy to look at a map and be like "Oh, this should work", but the differences between a place like Port Moody or Port Coquitlam, or even North Vancouver and West Vancouver are very striking, and I think most people in these regions would prefer their communities left the way they are.

With that said, Surrey for the most part is already an amalgamation of regional town centres like Whalley, Cloverdale, South Surrey, Fleetwood, Newton etc. It's very similar to Mississauga in this sense (Streetsville, Port Credit etc. each have their own uniqueness and history)
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikePhanta View Post
I think eventually the amalgamation of vancouver with burnaby will happen once Surrey has passed Vancouver in population....

Vancouver would need to catch up and increase its population and stay competitive.
oh hell no! There is no way our best managed city in the country is going to merge with the calamity that is CoV(nothing against the people of CoV). I think maybe a merger between New West and Burnaby(aka New Burnaby) would be far more palatable.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by twoNeurons View Post
Amalgamation won't fly in Vancouver. Greater powers for a Regional government may.

It would basically be an additional layer of government eventually.
This I think is the better way to go, just straight up amalgamation wouldn't work. Slowly merging services that can be merged and then go from there. Albeit the way we are currently doing it with Metro Vancouver & Translink, it will never happen. Metro Vancouver representatives need to be elected by the public at large, similar to the EU Parliament with each country get a certain # of seats, only in this case each city would get a certain # of seats.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
Combining Vancouver, the UEL and Burnaby are a no-brainer IMHO. Probably roll New West in there too. Richmond, by virtue of natural geographic barriers is a bit harder sell.
Vancouver International Airport...easy enough to guess where it is
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Distill3d View Post
I'll second that one. It only makes sense. Really, outside of BC, people don't understand the intricate city boundaries that are here. Hell, I live here and I don't understand them most of the time. 1 big uni-city is the best answer.
Does that mean you are in Burnaby or Vancouver j/k
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:39 PM
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Metro Vancouver Reorganization

This map illustrates my own ideas on amalgamation. It just compresses a few areas together.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 12:52 AM
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But if Vancouver amalgamates with Burnaby, then suddenly there will be a freeway going right through the middle of the city!

lol.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 3:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroXpress View Post
Does that mean you are in Burnaby or Vancouver j/k
Burnaby.

Under amalgamation, I'd be in Vancouver.

That said, I couldn't tell you where Burnaby ends and New Westminster begins. Its the same with Coquitlam's boundaries with Port Moody, Port Coquitlam, Anmore, and Belcarra. I always assumed that Anmore and Belcarra were part of Port Moody. I couldn't tell you the boundaries of the City and District of North Vancouver. Its the same with Surrey's boundaries with Langley, Delta, and White Rock. Personally, the only non-geographical boundaries that are strikingly clear are Burnaby/Coquitlam (North Road) and Vancouver/Burnaby (Boundary Road). Otherwise, its all Greek to me.

Amalgamating all the cities into one, or even Abbotsford, Langley, Surrey, White Rock and Delta as Surrey; Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows, Port Coquitlam, Coquitlam, Port Moody, Anmore, and Belcarra as Coquitlam; Burnaby, New Westminster, and Vancouver as Vancouver; Richmond, Tswassen, and Ladner as Richmond; and North Vancouver and West Vancouver as North Vancouver just seems to make sense.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 4:15 AM
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As far as the North Shore goes, why stop at the two North Vans and West Van? Amalgamate Lion's Bay, Bowen Island, and Squamish. Afterall, the residents of those cities are sucking up Metro resources and should have to pay in.

Unfortunately, there is not a lot of love between North Van City and District. The former is like a little Gregor Robertson-land, with its dense Lonsdale corridor and left-leaning politicians. The District is like West Van light, where the elites live in sprawling homes, and where anything approaching density (ie, condos and townhouses) is villainized.
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